Is Ichiro Suzuki overrated?

[SwarzakGuy40]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

Anyone that says Ichiro is ove , needs to quit watching baseball forever, and go watch soccer, or tennis instead, because baseball is too good for you.

 

[jeff550]

nope

he's underrated

dave

+100

/thread

+999

 

[thenumberonemetfan]

nope

he's underrated

dave

+100

/thread

thread...agree..../thread

 

[trademhigh]

no Ichiro is not (I would almost say underrated in terms of North American hobby love), jeter is absolutely, check the stats!

Why does everyone keep bringing up Derek Jeter?! Makes no sense to me. We get it. Most people hate the Yankees, and like to say all the Yankees are terrible.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

Anyone that says Ichiro is ove , needs to quit watching baseball forever, and go watch soccer, or tennis instead, because baseball is too good for you.

Feel free to point out the fallacy in my argument.

People are correct in pointing out that there are "different kinds of hitters" but to ignore the fact that a power hitter has more value than a singles/lead-off hitter (when OBP is similar) is ridiculous. Of course a higher slugging is worthwhile.

As for Ichiro being a great "contact hitter," we can make up categories from here to the moon and but just because we've come up with a category to describe Ichiro, it does not mean that "greatness" should be defined by anything more than winning and losing, and the fact is that Ichiro's on-base percentage is quite good, but far from "all-time great" when it comes to reaching base and avoiding outs.

to trademhigh: I brought up Jeter for comparisons sake because I am willing to say that Jeter has been a more valuable hitter than Ichiro based on the numbers. I think Ichiro is great, and deserved recognition, but I do think that sometimes we get caught up in milestones (like 200 hit seasons) and ignore the more telling stats like OBP.

 

[scotty21690]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

Anyone that says Ichiro is ove , needs to quit watching baseball forever, and go watch soccer, or tennis instead, because baseball is too good for you.

Feel free to point out the fallacy in my argument.

People are correct in pointing out that there are "different kinds of hitters" but to ignore the fact that a power hitter has more value than a singles/lead-off hitter (when OBP is similar) is ridiculous. Of course a higher slugging is worthwhile.

As for Ichiro being a great "contact hitter," we can make up categories from here to the moon and but just because we've come up with a category to describe Ichiro, it does not mean that "greatness" should be defined by anything more than winning and losing, and the fact is that Ichiro's on-base percentage is quite good, but far from "all-time great" when it comes to reaching base and avoiding outs.

to trademhigh: I brought up Jeter for comparisons sake because I am willing to say that Jeter has been a more valuable hitter than Ichiro based on the numbers. I think Ichiro is great, and deserved recognition, but I do think that sometimes we get caught up in milestones (like 200 hit seasons) and ignore the more telling stats like OBP.

Funny you say that, Ichiro is 25th in the ML in active career OBP...(Min. 3000 PA)

 

[hive17]

Using Sly's earlier comparison of Jeter and Ichiro, I'd like to point out one thing: if you add Ichiro's XBH and SB, you get 720; do the same with Jeter's numbers, you get 650. While it's somewhat imperfect and discounts stealing thrid or home (NOT as common), you can see that maybe XBHs are not as crucial to the argument, since Ichiro can make up for not hitting a double by stealing second more frequently than say Jeter.

That being said, I guess my overrall point is that SLG (and thusly, OPS) are somewhat skewed since a great player like Ichiro can make up that extra base not "hit", by stealing it.

And for the record, Ichiro is underrated. I mean, the dude won RoY and MVP.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

Funny you say that, Ichiro is 25th in the ML in active career OBP...(Min. 3000 PA)

That's exactly my point. He's viewed as one of the all-time greats, primarily for his ability to reach base, and there are 24 active players who do it better than him

 

[hofautos]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

Anyone that says Ichiro is ove , needs to quit watching baseball forever, and go watch soccer, or tennis instead, because baseball is too good for you.

Feel free to point out the fallacy in my argument.

People are correct in pointing out that there are "different kinds of hitters" but to ignore the fact that a power hitter has more value than a singles/lead-off hitter (when OBP is similar) is ridiculous. Of course a higher slugging is worthwhile.

As for Ichiro being a great "contact hitter," we can make up categories from here to the moon and but just because we've come up with a category to describe Ichiro, it does not mean that "greatness" should be defined by anything more than winning and losing, and the fact is that Ichiro's on-base percentage is quite good, but far from "all-time great" when it comes to reaching base and avoiding outs.

to trademhigh: I brought up Jeter for comparisons sake because I am willing to say that Jeter has been a more valuable hitter than Ichiro based on the numbers. I think Ichiro is great, and deserved recognition, but I do think that sometimes we get caught up in milestones (like 200 hit seasons) and ignore the more telling stats like OBP.

I don't think Ichiro is over-rated, because he isn't rated as a POWER hiitter. If someone said he is the greatest power-hitter that ever lived, that would be over-rating him. Ichiro is rated as one of the best at what he does. No one compares him to Pujols or Babe Ruth. So no, he is not over-rated. He is rated right where he should be, or even lower than he should be. His stats speak tons to his achievements. He has broke many records, and surely he is one of the top players of this decade, especially in a decade where most records are driven by steroids. Do not take anything away from Ichiro. If anything he is under-rated because many people don't like the idea of a Japanese player being one of the all time best players in the history of MLB. Credit due where credit earned. Ichiro is GREAT! It's just about impossible to say too much about him.

 

[hive17]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

I'll try to snipe a little on this arguement. In order to do so, take a team composed of nothing but HR hitters and a team composed of nothing but singles hitters. Assume that your average power hitter also strikes out much more than a singles hitter. Also assume that power guys can't steal nearly as many bases.

In this arguement, say your average singles team gets 2 hits, 1 SB/4 ABs and your power team gets 1 HR, 1 BB, and 2 K/4 ABs. Given that ratio and extrapolate it, you won't see a difference in the score, especailly when you consider that a run can often score from second. I know these are wild examples and could never happen either way, but i think the point is still valid.

Anyone that says Ichiro is ove , needs to quit watching baseball forever, and go watch soccer, or tennis instead, because baseball is too good for you.

Feel free to point out the fallacy in my argument.

People are correct in pointing out that there are "different kinds of hitters" but to ignore the fact that a power hitter has more value than a singles/lead-off hitter (when OBP is similar) is ridiculous. Of course a higher slugging is worthwhile.

As for Ichiro being a great "contact hitter," we can make up categories from here to the moon and but just because we've come up with a category to describe Ichiro, it does not mean that "greatness" should be defined by anything more than winning and losing, and the fact is that Ichiro's on-base percentage is quite good, but far from "all-time great" when it comes to reaching base and avoiding outs.

to trademhigh: I brought up Jeter for comparisons sake because I am willing to say that Jeter has been a more valuable hitter than Ichiro based on the numbers. I think Ichiro is great, and deserved recognition, but I do think that sometimes we get caught up in milestones (like 200 hit seasons) and ignore the more telling stats like OBP.

 

[scotty21690]

Re: Is Ichiro Suzuki ove ?

Funny you say that, Ichiro is 25th in the ML in active career OBP...(Min. 3000 PA)

That's exactly my point. He's viewed as one of the all-time greats, primarily for his ability to reach base, and there are 24 active players who do it better than him

You just don't understand, Ichiro doesn't want to get on base with a walk....he wants to get a hit. And only one player in the ML does that better than him is Pujols..

And of all time only 26 players get on base more times than Ichiro with the bat

 

[Frow]

Power hitters are overrated.

 

[lisu]

Ichiro is not overrated. The reason I say this is because there is no one I'd rather have up to bat when there are runners in scoring position. He will make contact!!!!! He is probably the best contact hitter there is right now in the majors.

 

[scotty21690]

Power hitters are overrated.

Amen, Frow!

I wish there were more contact hitters in the league.....or I wish I were alive in the early 1900's so I could see the greatest contact hitter of all time

 

[tramers]

please send him to Pirates !!!!!! Only our owners are over rated

 

[tramers]

Power hitters are overrated.

Amen, Frow!

I wish there were more contact hitters in the league.....or I wish I were alive in the early 1900's so I could see the greatest contact hitter of all time

scotty someone said you are that old

 

[scotty21690]

Power hitters are overrated.

Amen, Frow!

I wish there were more contact hitters in the league.....or I wish I were alive in the early 1900's so I could see the greatest contact hitter of all time

scotty someone said you are that old

:lol: :lol:

I can see why they may think that, LOL!

 

[SwarzakGuy40]

Lets see, where do we start? 9 consecutive 200 hit seasons... that is a record which is good, but he has only been in the league 9 seasons. 200 hits EVERY year he has played. Gold gloves EVERY year he has played. Record holder with 262 hits in a year, something that will probably never be broken. Over 30 stolen bases every year. His season HIGH for strikeouts is just 77. Over 100 runs scored EVERY year.

WAR is at 4.9 this year. Had a WAR of 5.7 in 2007. He has outplayed his salary by about 5 million dollars almost every year.

His has been worth about 22 milllion dollars this year.

And did anyone see that crazy walk off homerun off Mariano?

 

[sportscardtheory]

I just want to add that a double is better than a single with a stolen base because the double does a better job of getting runs home. Stolen bases don't drive in runs. That said, I don't think Ichiro is overrated. I think he gets just the right amount of recognition. He is better than Pete Rose and his average hits per 162 games is proof of that.

 

[FortyFour]

Can we stop using the word "overrated"?