Jordan /100

[Orangejello727]

@wbonus

i applaud your in depth analysis for that particular card. now ask yourself, is it reasonable to expect me to do that for every single auction I track? that's a lot of work. unpaid work, at that. for what? for the betterment of everyone else? for props to me? no thank you i dont need props.

but if post sales data along with the requisite info (seller, price, auction #, date, etc) on hupe royalty, it allows collectors to do their own homework and investigate. THATS what hupe royalty is about: a resource for collectors to use. if anyone looks at the data and takes it LITERALLY (without regard to possible flaws) personally, I don't think that's my fault. if other people reference my site and it helps with their sales, well good for them and dumb for the buyer who doesn't do more homework. again, is that my fault? i dont believe so.

now, coming back to the kobe auctions specifiically.
i dont know the buying habits, income, or intent of any bidders, but we can assume we do. a guy buys one kobe ruby. then, you believe, he tries to bump up the others to protect his purchase. plausible? very. but is it also not plausible that the guy has a lot of money and wants to own more than one copy of the card? again, plausible. we can assume, but intent is hard to prove.also, the winning bidder e***a( 3796) apparently really wanted that card, whether at $2399 or at $2601 (and possibly that wasnt even his highest max bid). truly if the guy put in his his high bid at $4000 we will never know. but we do know that he was willing, more so than anyone else, to win that card at a very high price. does that not make the sale of that card completely false? i wouldnt say so.

lets play what if? what if the e***h( 149) guy won the card? well, either he pays or he doesn't. if he pays we now have two confirmed sales on the kobe card. if he doesn't the card gets re-listed and everyone sees that the first sale was illegitimate.

If he has a ton of money and is looking to buy another one, why would he not bid on the 1/50 that ended? It was $300 less than his bid for this one? Im sure if I was looking to buy multiples, Id be bidding on all the ones that show up. Its a pretty rare card. The fact that 4 show up within weeks is nuts.

Im not asking you to track all the information. All I had asked for was to add seller to your archives. It might not solve the problem, but it definately helps the vigilance on apart of the problem. Its like a crutch and a broken leg. THe crutch doesnt heal the broken leg. But it sure does help when needed!

 

[emeyeceeone]

@wbonus

are these the four people you are saying that are the "people" who are committing all the horrible things in the 90s/Jordan market? is there anyone else that you care to mention, that I didn't post on that list?

powerbuyer23 - Consignment with a few ebay user names. Consignees usually shill his auctions
sil15 - Has been known to ask many bidders to shill his auctions. Ask a few members at your
queencity-sportscards - has a past history, just ask around
soundandintel - obviously we know this is gonblott. He hypes your site while selling high end or trying to

where does firehorse stand. clarify please.

yankxyankx - Does a lot of consignment. No problems with him.
firehorse9798 - Selling off his collection

 

[Orangejello727]

@wbonus

are these the four people you are saying that are the "people" who are committing all the horrible things in the 90s/Jordan market? is there anyone else that you care to mention, that I didn't post on that list?

powerbuyer23 - Consignment with a few ebay user names. Consignees usually shill his auctions
sil15 - Has been known to ask many bidders to shill his auctions. Ask a few members at your
queencity-sportscards - has a past history, just ask around
soundandintel - obviously we know this is gonblott. He hypes your site while selling high end or trying to

where does firehorse stand. clarify please.

yankxyankx - Does a lot of consignment. No problems with him.
firehorse9798 - Selling off his collection

Its almost becoming impossible to even debate with you. I dont care anymore. Honestly, if you feel that ebay is all legit with no games being played, then you keep believing it buddy. You think im some amateur with no experience in this hobby because I happen not to show off my collection or dont spend the large dollars others do. You dont need to spend big dough to be well experience in this industry. All you need is awareness.

You keep doing what you know best. Im done with this. Its like a spin cycle circle jerk that keeps coming back to you thinking everyone is paranoid. I keep poking holes in your price tracking and you keep trying to dismiss it. Im done here.

Before I go, I just want to let you know that the spx force jordan auto redemption card you first blogged about ending at $400 ... well it never sold. It got relisted and sold for a few hundered dollars. NOw its being relisted and sitting at $50. Go figure!

 

[emeyeceeone]

@wbbonus

i dont understand why that is such a tough question for you to answer?

my goal is to set up a page on hupe royalty that is more or less a "beware of" for anyone who is interested in seeing a list of names on ebay that are fishy.

YOU have MULTIPLE times stated that there are people who are manipulating ebay. fine. i accept that. so now i want to do something about it. but you are unwilling to share what you know.

its like a teacher telling students he knows how to solve problems, but is unwilling to share with them the solutions then lauds them for not getting the answers right.

 

[emeyeceeone]

all i am asking from you and gio is to say

hey i believe/know that

person1
person2
person3 etc

are manipulating ebay prices for (jordan only or the entire 90s?) insert market.


SIMPLE AS THAT. is it really that hard???

i'll take it from there and do my own research. i just want to you guys to get the ball rolling since both of you seem confident that you know more is going on than I do.

 

[Gio]

Now the PMG Red "SOLD" for $3,935.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jordan-97-9 ... 3f099405fd

The serial numbering on that card is 018/100 so now let's see if it pops up again!

If not, maybe he'll sell one of his other Jordan PMG Reds with a different serial number for some where close to that price, since now the "TRUE" value is $3,935.00....................

BTW, the seller for this $3,935.00 PMG is soundandintel (AKA Gonblott) and the buyer is the_good_sportsman

 

[emeyeceeone]

it is humorous to me how you constantly come back to gonblott.

You claim to have knowledge of "people" who you believe are manipulating ebay, yet you seem to only come back to ONE individual. Or are you now also implying that the buyer is in cohoots too?

Funny how you are willing to share your insights about this one particular buyer, yet refuse to name anyone else. Either you have a tremendous grudge against him or... there is no other seller that you are CONFIDENTLY aware of that may be up to no good.

And you claim to be looking out for other collectors? It seems to me that you just have an issue with one seller and are using my name and blog to argue your positon against him since you believe he has some kind of input on what I blog about.

Whether you are right or wrong about him, that is still only one individual. Still waitng for you to confirm/deny names from my list on page 7, if you have the guts, or better yet, the knowledge.

 

[Greg Cleveland]

As a baseball guy, I feel like I'm intruding here, but I have a question...

After reading through a few--not all for heaven's sake--pages of this thread, it seems that I can gather that Jordan stuff is indeed still popular, and as 90's basbeball inserts are hot--especially low-numbered ones--it would make sense that similar printed cards of Jordan would be as well. So I have my Jordan binder from when I bought basketball in the early 90's. Some inserts--mostly Upper Deck, Hoops, Skybox, Fleer stuff--but nothing numbered or "Rare". Oversized cards from Wal-Mart packs, too. Probably 1:24 or 1:36 ratio is about as rare as I have. Would an outsider like me listing that stuff get bidding wars too, or would it be fairly ignored because it isn't the low-print numbered stuff. Just wonderin'. I don't believe I'm sitting on a gold mine or anything, but they're just in the basement in a binder doin' nothing. Thanks for any input.

 

[byronscott4ever]

As a baseball guy, I feel like I'm intruding here, but I have a question...

After reading through a few--not all for heaven's sake--pages of this thread, it seems that I can gather that Jordan stuff is indeed still popular, and as 90's basbeball inserts are hot--especially low-numbered ones--it would make sense that similar printed cards of Jordan would be as well. So I have my Jordan binder from when I bought basketball in the early 90's. Some inserts--mostly Upper Deck, Hoops, Skybox, Fleer stuff--but nothing numbered or "Rare". Oversized cards from Wal-Mart packs, too. Probably 1:24 or 1:36 ratio is about as rare as I have. Would an outsider like me listing that stuff get bidding wars too, or would it be fairly ignored because it isn't the low-print numbered stuff. Just wonderin'. I don't believe I'm sitting on a gold mine or anything, but they're just in the basement in a binder doin' nothing. Thanks for any input.

While the serial numbered stuff is hot for Jordan and other big names, even certain non-#ed cards sell well too. If there's an insert that fell one per box and was a ten to 20 card set, the Jordan one has some scarcity to it. Your best bet is to search ebay and see completed auctions for the item. You'd hate to list something with a BIN that gets hit quickly and leave money on the table. Don't count on base cards having any value but inserts may sell. You can always put them all together and throw a BIN on there. I've sold regular Jordan cards for decent money so inserts added in may help them all to move if you went that route.

 

[Greg Cleveland]

Thanks. I don't do BIN, I usually list for .99 and let it ride--good or bad. It's been awhile since I looked at Jordan or other basketball stuff to see what's going on.

 

[predatorkj]

I don't collect Jordan avidly and never will. Never been a huge fan. But I do collect 90's inserts and I also watch a lot of the basketball 90's stuff as well as baseball. I haven't believed the ending prices for a few years now. Theya re too insane on some of these cards. Sure they are hard to come by but not that damn hard to come by.

I think in a nutshell, if you are going to bother writing about the sales of these cards, you might as well include as much info as possible. Things like the sellers name should have been a no brainer to include. Now, that being said, this is where I feel you are a little gray with the details. After tracking these sales, even a guy not looking for anything amiss or even specifically looking at sellers names, would have to notice that its the same damn guy(s). I hardly ever pay attention to a sellers name unless I see it around enough. I have purchased cards from guys who never sell another one like it. But if someone sells something a lot, like 90's themed inserts for example, you start to remember names. And you do it without trying.

So, all that said, if you did start to notice things like that, which I would like to think you would have, wouldn't it pique your curiosity? It would pique mine. Big time. In fact I have caught a few sellers of Bagwell items who seemed to have really high ending prices and also who would sell the same card over and over again. Some was shilling, some is what I'd have to assume was hyping up the price(through false sales) and some were really odd because I had never before encountered someone with so many copies of what was supposedly a "rare" card.

If you keep up your site, and you really are trying to make a useful resource, then you need to include everything you can about the sales. Especially if the seller has the same card up several times. I would have thought you would do something like that anyways seeing as how anyone could notice it. Then maybe you could even have a place on your site where you write about what has recently sold, especially if it has a history. And also be sure to point out what the same cards (but from different sellers) sell for in comparison.

The fact that you haven't already done this and the fact that you are trying to say you really didn't notice anything fishy about all these mega sales...leaves even a perfect stranger in doubt. Who creates a tool like that without not only checking the validity, but also trying to do a good and thourough job? At best it would be a half assed attempt. At worst, it would be shady looking. Surely you can see that can't you.

 

[emeyeceeone]

@predatorjk

yeah, i definitely noticed names, like you said, without trying. the thing is, when i started tracking stuff, i did it for fun, for myself, because i thought it was pretty cool to see, over weeks and months how stuff was steadily increasing. initially, i didn't share the data with anyone because it was just for my enjoyment and score keeping. over time, and as i saw more and more threads about 90's stuff on hobbykings, i thought "hey other people might find this useful" and started sharing the info that i was gathering. i never thought in a million years that other people would believe that i was participating in anything crooked and trying to hype any sales. i was/have never sold 90s inserts, so personally, i have nothing to gain from this.

i dont think there is any other free site online that records information like i do (worthpoint and terapeak offer paid services) so, while it may be viewed as half assed or shady, please keep in mind that it is my blog, not a commercial website. i don't do it for anything other than my enjoyment and if it benefits collectors to reference it,... well then great.

i could just as easily lock all the data i record and keep it to myself. yeah, it would drive away traffic from my site, but then i won't have people who doubt my intentions. then again, i'm not looking to please everybody. it's my blog and if some people don't agree with what i do, so be it.

lately ive been on a photoshopping spree, designing cards. i haven't updated the prices in a very long time - especially the jordan stuff. yet when i see recent ebay sales, prices on 90's inserts are still sustaining and rising, so i can't be blamed for anything because i haven't contributed any recent sales on my blog. that SHOULD re-enforce that
1. 90's stuff is still hot, whether i blog about it or not
2. if there is shady stuff going on, i shouldn't be looked at as someone contributing to it cause i haven't done any recordings in a while.

a lot of the data i posted goes back to 2008 to early 2011 so if i get blamed for having those sales on there as a reason why prices are increasing, well, i find that funny.

my creative genes have had more fun lately doing the photoshop stuff, so the blog has really become of that lately, as well as an image resource for 90s inserts.

 

[Gio]

ttt

 

[Gio]

Bump for MIKE...

 

[emeyeceeone]

you're lucky im banned on BO. i find it funny how you failed to mention this in your BO thread:

"Now the PMG Red "SOLD" for $3,935.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jordan-97-9 ... 3f099405fd

The serial numbering on that card is 018/100 so now let's see if it pops up again!

If not, maybe he'll sell one of his other Jordan PMG Reds with a different serial number for some where close to that price, since now the "TRUE" value is $3,935.00....................

BTW, the seller for this $3,935.00 PMG is soundandintel (AKA Gonblott) and the buyer is the_good_sportsman"

 

[emeyeceeone]

O.J. Ignorant comment #1:
Can you tell me the last 3 sales of Jordan PMG red? Buyer and seller?
Credking to private person
Gonblott to Redskinwizards
Redskinwizards to XXXX (waiting to find out if they leave feedback but guess what, they probably wont)

This list right here shows your ignorance. Get your facts proper.
On May 1st, soundandintel (Gonblott) sold his 18/100 Red PMG to a buyer named the_good_sportsman. In fact, your _____ Gio, Sportsitupcards made it a point to note that, in his infamous thread on Freedomcardboard. See the exact quote here. It’s the first post on the page.


On August 23rd, guess who? That’s right, the_good_sportsman created a listing stating that he had plans to auction off his Dennis Rodman Green PMG and his Michael Jordan Red PMG. You’ll never believe the serial number it was…… 18/100. Oh my! Yes, a collector that does not come to any forums actually purchased a card that you and your ‘special’ friends continually doubt.

Now, you ______, this is where it may confuse you. His description read:
I am selling my Rodman and Jordan Precious Metals. The high price is for people to see that they will be for sale. I will most likely list the Rodman next week and the Jordan the following week, if they don’t sell by then. Rodman is numbered 001/100, first one ever printed, holy grail of Rodman cards. Jordan is numbered 018/100. In the meantime, feel free to make an offer and I’ll consider it.

I have highlighted the bold to show emphasis. He stated on August 23rd that he would entertain offers for the card. Some time between the start of the auction, but before the end of the day on August 23rd, he updated the description:

The Jordan is no longer available. – 08/23/11

So, if you’re perceptive enough to understand, he sold the card offline. Card 18/100.

On August 24th? (unsure about the start date, but I know that it ended prior to August 28th) redskinswizard put up a Michael Jordan Red PMG serial number……………yes, you _______…. 18/100.
Here is the auction. Someone, until proven otherwise, hit the Buy It Now for $11,999.99 on August 28th.
UPDATE, SEPTEMBER 2: The card was re-listed so the BIN did not go through. Follow the current auction here.

You, Orangejello727, should know the facts before you start _____ about something and make accusations that are ignorant, if not blatantly inaccurate.

 

[Gio]

BUSTED!!!! Gonblott and that other scammer are BUSTED!!!!!

Are you still going to defend them and spread all your lies about Jordan inserts?

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/bask ... ay-10.html

BUSTED!!!!

 

[emeyeceeone]

BUSTED!

Gio aka SportItUpCards still spreading nonsense! BUSTED!


bring you and your buddies over to http://tinychat.com/huperoyalty and cam up and lets discuss this on camera.

 

[rymflaherty]

I don't know if anyone's pointed these things out - but a couple things to remember regarding the scarcity/value of such cards -

The insane overall production run of a lot of these sets. Many of these inserts can still be sitting in boxes somewhere. Then even if many were pulled - it's not like today where a majority of a product is busted and floods ebay available to a worldwide market place a few weeks after the release. With the production runs the way they were - the odds to hit even what we'd consider today to be high numbered inserts would have been insane.

Also, most of these sets are prior to the high-end shift. Before the hobby seemed geared toward adults and gamblers. Kids could walk into a shop and afford most any of these packs......so these cards weren't from $100 packs being purchased by hardcore collector's and re-sellers.
So who knows how many of these type of cards were purchased and would up in binders or shoe-boxes.....potentially ruined or forgotten.

I think these factor in to the value today as well. I'm sure those things are obvious to those that were kids, collected back then.....but I figured there may be some that don't realize how much things have changed the past 20 or so years.

 

[hawkfandan]

As someone who collects Jordan and has for some time, I've decided to put my collection on hold until things subside a bit (and they will subside, they always do). I don't know any of these people being discussed and I don't know if there really is some sort of conspiracy to drive up prices. However, I will say this - I've learned that whether its with cards or anything else, usually where there's smoke, there's fire. You cannot deny (1) the onslaught of absolutely shady behavior as of late on Ebay. Heck - just check hobby kings, its one exposed shilling thread after another. Its now the norm for sellers to (1) have numerous accounts (2) blatantly shill their own auctions. Most users aren't savvy enough to figure out how they're being shilled and Ebay is just happy to get their cut (shilled or not). In my 14 years on Ebay I've never seen it this bad. Sellers are committing blatant fraud on a regular basis and the honest sellers (such as myself), are forced to deal with more dead beat buyers than ever because there's no recourse against non-payers (but that's a different rant).

I enjoy the hupe royalty blogs because I like looking at basketball cards and I enjoy discussing them. However, whenever there's $ to be made, the scammers are going to come out in force and I think that's definitely going on with the high end Michael Jordan cards - I don't think anyone can deny that. Again, I don't know if its the people being discussed here on a regular basis and I'm not going to talk about people I don't know - I'll just say that the entire market has made me uncomfortable purchasing anything until things settle down a bit. In the last year or so we've seen prices escalate beyond previous levels. It'll be interesting to see where they're at a year from now.