Kazmir Traded to Angels

[josh3302]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

This is what I'm thinking. This is an extremely weird move by the Rays. Yes Kazmir has not been his usually self but his last couple starts he WAS. He was flat out dominant in one of them. And the guy is only 25. I would've rather see them trade Shields.

I don't see how this helps the Rays at all.

This dissapoints me as a Rays fan. I could understand moving Kazmir in the winter but not in this playoff race. Why would you want to bring up a minor league starter in the middle of a playoff race where pitching really matters instead of an expierienced lefty who has struggled this year but has been really good as of late. Complete BS to make this move now instead of the winter or to have tried to acquire Cliff Lee or V-Mart at the deadline.

Just to think they could have traded Kaz to LAA in July to have been able to get V-Mart and/or Cliff Lee sickens me. Good Bye playoffs. I hope Davis pitches well in September but he most likely won't. They don't have one starter, maybe Neimann who's a rookie pitching well. Kazmir was. So now you have to rely on Shields and Garza who have under-achieved all year and then 3 rookies to lead you to the playoffs. They just threw every chance they had at the playoffs down the drain. Good job Friedman

 

[jcmint]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

No offense to you but thats why your list is your list. Not many would agree with that at all. Most of us can make lists but whos really gonna take them serious.

Sorry but Wade Davis is highly overrated and is a #4 or #5 starter at best or a 7th inning guy. Did not impress me one bit this week with his 91-93 MPH fastball, curveball also hung pretty good and has no changeup/cutter. Hellickson has passed him in the organization.

If we're talking pure stuff Helly wins that battle, but Davis has more experience. Eventually Helly will join him in TB, but not for a while.

Davis is going to get bombed if they call him. He didn't look much different that Sonnestine IMO. Davis is a two pitch pitcher and would work better in the bullpen, even Badler agreed with me when I tweeted him my game report that Davis stuff is down this year.

You also said that Bumgarner is "down your top 50" prospects list when virtually every credible minor league outlet will have him in the top 10 or just outside of it. You may end up being correct, but I'm guessing that a lot of people will disregard this statement.

Bumgarner right now would be ranked around 20 in my Top 50 right now.

 

[Jaypers]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

JP, the guy is just having an off year. I can't believe after one year, the promise he has shown and to what I believe the ceiling he hasn't even reached yet, you would give up on a high-caliber guy like Kazmir. He is hands down the best pitching the Rays have, regardless of what his stats show this year.

To give him up in a pennant race for peanuts. I don't get it.

I don't recall saying I'd given up on him. I still like him plenty, and hope he excels in Anaheim.

 

[andyduke86]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

It is a salary dump. The Rays obviously don't think he will ever stay healthy or regain his previous form.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Any Rays fan happy with this trade is clinically insane. You are loosing your 25 year old stud, for two unproven prospects with upside.

I am looking at this trade as more of an opportunity for the Rays' farm system to adjust as a result of this move, and not nearly as much for the prospects they're getting in return.

So you are ok with trading one of the more talented left handed pitchers in baseball, who is 25, since it allows you to adjust your minor leagues?


I'm wondering what that means. not trying to be difficult, I just dont get what it means since your team basically traded a high value commodity for less than what you would think he would bring?

It means that I believe there are those languishing in their farm system who have the potential to be every bit as good as Kaz used to be.

Sorry JP, I generally respect your opinion but you're making a post like a prospector and not a fan of your team. The only comparison I can make on a personal level would be the phils trading hamels to make room for Drabek or, at the time Carrasco. then on top of that, getting less than top value for him.

 

[josh3302]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

It is a salary dump. The Rays obviously don't think he will ever stay healthy or regain his previous form.

That's acceptable, but if they were going to do this they should have done it in July, when they could have gone out and gotten Cliff Lee who would have been the guy they needed to bolster the staff and lead them to October again. Doing it now is un-acceptable unless Roy Halladay is in their Winter Meetings plans

 

[Jaypers]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Sorry JP, I generally respect your opinion but you're making a post like a prospector and not a fan of your team. The only comparison I can make on a personal level would be the phils trading hamels to make room for Drabek or, at the time Carrasco. then on top of that, getting less than top value for him.

I am both a prospector and a fan. Always have been.

 

[josh3302]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Ken Rosenthal Foxsports.com

"Kazmir was still in the Tampa Bay clubhouse as of 4:40 p.m. ET, prior to the Rays' game against Detroit, FOXSports.com's Jon Paul Morosi reported."

Right now, thats all that matters

 

[andyduke86]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Yep, not a done deal yet. I'm not positive it gets done either. I hope it doesn't.

 

[Jaypers]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Interesting. It's no longer on MLB.com's front page, either.

 

[josh3302]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Yep, not a done deal yet. I'm not positive it gets done either. I hope it doesn't.

Exactly. Get it done in the off-season if anything. He's pitching the best he's pitched all year. He was the ace of the staff going into the year and has been the ace of the staff for a while. AND HE'S ONLY 25!!!! TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP. Trade him in the off-season if we need to but not in the middle of a race to get in the playoffs

 

[andyduke86]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Yep, not a done deal yet. I'm not positive it gets done either. I hope it doesn't.

Exactly. Get it done in the off-season if anything. He's pitching the best he's pitched all year. He was the ace of the staff going into the year and has been the ace of the staff for a while. AND HE'S ONLY 25!!!! TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP. Trade him in the off-season if we need to but not in the middle of a race to get in the playoffs

I agree!

 

[Brett Keith]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

I think people may be overvaluing Kazmir. Yes, he's still young and very talented, but he's lost velocity off his FB, his secondary pitches seem to come and go, all of which isn't helped by him having issues staying healthy. Consistancy is very important in sports, especially in baseball's long season, most especially in the starting rotation. Organizations want to know what they're going to get, Kazmir doesn't really allow that. He's owed a good chunk of change for such a question mark and the Rays can use the money saved to resign players like Carl Crawford and B.J. Upton. Honestly, Davis in Kaz's spot isn't that scary. Long term, Kaz wasn't likely to stay with the team, so the team is getting good value for him. Kaz is looking better now, so that's added value, and trading him now allows a team to use him for a playoff run, rather than trading for him in the offseason, that also adds value. I do wish they could have done this earlier to clear room for Cliff Lee, even if it was a lesser package, but I don't know what went on in the talks with other teams, plus it does no good to worry about that now.

 

[Brett Keith]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Yep, not a done deal yet. I'm not positive it gets done either. I hope it doesn't.

Exactly. Get it done in the off-season if anything. He's pitching the best he's pitched all year. He was the ace of the staff going into the year and has been the ace of the staff for a while. AND HE'S ONLY 25!!!! TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP. Trade him in the off-season if we need to but not in the middle of a race to get in the playoffs

Kaz hasn't been the ace since the first half of 2008, Shields and Garza passed him later last season.

 

[andyduke86]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Yep, not a done deal yet. I'm not positive it gets done either. I hope it doesn't.

Exactly. Get it done in the off-season if anything. He's pitching the best he's pitched all year. He was the ace of the staff going into the year and has been the ace of the staff for a while. AND HE'S ONLY 25!!!! TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP. Trade him in the off-season if we need to but not in the middle of a race to get in the playoffs

Kaz hasn't been the ace since the first half of 2008, Shields and Garza passed him later last season.

He was the ace for a month or two in the first part of 2008...after he missed a month or two with an elbow strain. I agree with all you've said, I just question the timing of the move big time.

There have been persistent injury rumors surrounding Kaz since 2007. He hasn't been the same pitcher at all since that elbow strain, and in fact he's gotten steadily worse for the most part over the past 2 years. His slider hasn't been the same since he led the league in K's in 2007. He's basically been a fb/changeup guy the past 2 seasons and has been average at best in 2009.

 

[ballerskrip]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

I think people may be overvaluing Kazmir. Yes, he's still young and very talented, but he's lost velocity off his FB, his secondary pitches seem to come and go, all of which isn't helped by him having issues staying healthy. Consistancy is very important in sports, especially in baseball's long season, most especially in the starting rotation. Organizations want to know what they're going to get, Kazmir doesn't really allow that. He's owed a good chunk of change for such a question mark and the Rays can use the money saved to resign players like Carl Crawford and B.J. Upton. Honestly, Davis in Kaz's spot isn't that scary. Long term, Kaz wasn't likely to stay with the team, so the team is getting good value for him. Kaz is looking better now, so that's added value, and trading him now allows a team to use him for a playoff run, rather than trading for him in the offseason, that also adds value. I do wish they could have done this earlier to clear room for Cliff Lee, even if it was a lesser package, but I don't know what went on in the talks with other teams, plus it does no good to worry about that now.

I agree....

Who do you think knows more about Scott Kazmir? The Rays? Or us?

Who knows more about his health? And long term health? The Rays? Or us?

Please think about those things before going nuts. Kazmir is NOT the same. he looks like a shell of himself all year. He is trying to still throw like a power pitcher but without the stuff to get it done. His fastball has lost 4-5 MPH and his breaking pitches are average at best. His command is pitiful.

You might think there is some upside in there. But I am sure the Rays no more ABOUT THEIR PITCHER than we do. There are good reason that he is being dealt.

skrip

 

[Wes]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Sorry but Wade Davis is highly overrated and is a #4 or #5 starter at best or a 7th inning guy. Did not impress me one bit this week with his 91-93 MPH fastball, curveball also hung pretty good and has no changeup/cutter. Hellickson has passed him in the organization.

If we're talking pure stuff Helly wins that battle, but Davis has more experience. Eventually Helly will join him in TB, but not for a while.

Davis is going to get bombed if they call him. He didn't look much different that Sonnestine IMO. Davis is a two pitch pitcher and would work better in the bullpen, even Badler agreed with me when I tweeted him my game report that Davis stuff is down this year.

You also said that Bumgarner is "down your top 50" prospects list when virtually every credible minor league outlet will have him in the top 10 or just outside of it. You may end up being correct, but I'm guessing that a lot of people will disregard this statement.

Bumgarner right now would be ranked around 20 in my Top 50 right now.

What does he have to do to get into the top five!?

 

[David Campos]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Lyle Spencer is now reporting that the deal fell through. If Bell struggles tonight, I bet they try to re-work it over the weekend.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... p&c_id=mlb

 

[Jaypers]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

Lyle Spencer is not reporting that the deal fell through. If Bell struggles tonight, I bet they try to re-work it over the weekend.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... p&c_id=mlb

Well, time to edit this thread's title.

 

[mwashuc06]

Re: Scott Kazmir to Be Dealt to the Angels

[quote="mwashuc06":1rpecfvl]Sorry but Wade Davis is highly overrated and is a #4 or #5 starter at best or a 7th inning guy. Did not impress me one bit this week with his 91-93 MPH fastball, curveball also hung pretty good and has no changeup/cutter. Hellickson has passed him in the organization.

If we're talking pure stuff Helly wins that battle, but Davis has more experience. Eventually Helly will join him in TB, but not for a while.

Davis is going to get bombed if they call him. He didn't look much different that Sonnestine IMO. Davis is a two pitch pitcher and would work better in the bullpen, even Badler agreed with me when I tweeted him my game report that Davis stuff is down this year.

You also said that Bumgarner is "down your top 50" prospects list when virtually every credible minor league outlet will have him in the top 10 or just outside of it. You may end up being correct, but I'm guessing that a lot of people will disregard this statement.

Bumgarner right now would be ranked around 20 in my Top 50 right now.

What does he have to do to get into the top five!?[/quote:1rpecfvl]

Develope another pitch that is average or better.