Leaf Best of Baseball is out!

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I think the price drop is becuase the product blows. You have a very, very good chance of busting a box and not even making half your money back. Here's a good rule of thumb I wish companies would follow: If an individual is still alive, they SHOULD NOT have a cut signature. Half the cut sig checklist is players who are alive and well.

With all respect, how do you or anyone else know if it blows?

There is no checklist.
At this point, only I know what is in the product.

Once you open some (obviously not happening), feel free to come on and share an opinion based in fact rather than speculation.
BG

p.s.- cuts of living people and stickers of living people are the same thing. The only difference is the transparency of the medium.

Hey.

Where are your NPNs, you're like 10 products in, and I haven't seen a single NPN yet all the sales sheets say CHECK THE WEBSITE.

I eagerly await entering these as I've been waiting since the Strasburg Super product.

We hold a limited amount of each product for which we deem an NPN necessary.
These products generally are those with autographs or game used inserted at a random rate (not in every pack).
I will see that my team puts a generic link on the site with NPN info.
BG

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

With all respect, how do you or anyone else know if it blows?

There is no checklist.
At this point, only I know what is in the product.

Once you open some (obviously not happening), feel free to come on and share an opinion based in fact rather than speculation.
BG

p.s.- cuts of living people and stickers of living people are the same thing. The only difference is the transparency of the medium.

With all due respect, of course my opinion is speculation. But it is, again, an opinion. And I will stand by what I said. If there is no checklist, what are these "lists" of players that I see on the internet that are supposedly checklists? Are they completely innacurate?

And no, I won't be busting any of this product, as I don't believe there is nearly enough value in it to justify the cost. I do have friends that are busting it, and I will be watching. Of course some people who bust the product will get some incredible pulls, but the majority will not. And, of course, this is true of every product. But I think this product will be a dissapointment, and I think the price drop is an indication of that.

Thanks for your well thought out opinion. Unfortunately, you dont begin to understand that the cut is NOT the primary hit in the pack. It replaces the $3-5 autograph cards we inserted last time. I agree. No need to be positive about anything. BG

 

[sportscardtheory]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Cut signatures of living players blow. That IS fact. Good luck with the product, Brian. I have liked most of what I have seen from Leaf thus far, but don't act like cut signatures of living players are anything other than garbage. They aren't even close to sticker autos. They are simply a lazy and cheap way to get autos into a product.

Do me a favor. Call Lady Gaga and tell her Ill pay her $1000 per signature to be in Pop Century. Then tell her I will mow her lawn for 6 months if she'll do the deal too.

See, I am neither cheap not lazy.

In this case, I can do a deal with Maddux, Aaron ,etc and raise factory cost $20-30 box OR I can use cuts and provide better value to the collector.
Ill chose providing better value for $500, Alex.
BG

Theory, I do appreciate your opinion as it is well thought out and based on what IS known, rather than what is not.

p.s.- I love when collectors tell manufacturers they are cheap and lazy. Trust me, one week doing what we do to get deals done and make compelling products, you would be in awe (rather than judgment).

I was clearly talking about "players". Of course cut autos of non-sports celebrities is different. My take is that if you can't do something right, don't do it at all. Cut autos of living players is just really dumb and it's not "doing it right" no matter how you spin it. Cutting up other auto cards for their autos is an awful practice and cut autos of living players is ridiculous. I know you have to back your product and stick up for it regardless, but come on. How many times do people have to complain about the stupid things card companies do before they simply stop doing them. No one wants a freaking cut auto of Hank Aaron, Andre Dawson or Greg Maddux or any living player for that matter when there are literally thousands of real options for certified autographs or authenticated IP autos of them. You aren't a dumb person, Brian. Stop acting like this is anything that collectors want.

I wish I ran a card company. I would lay-out unbreakable-under-any-circumstances guidelines and people would respect us for it instead of constantly selling-out for the all-mighty dollar. Bad ideas are bad ideas, so stay away from them... would be my motto. Give the people what they want, not what we want to give them... would be another. NO ONE is asking any card company for cut-autos of living players.

 

[scottagibson]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Cut signatures of living players blow. That IS fact. Good luck with the product, Brian. I have liked most of what I have seen from Leaf thus far, but don't act like cut signatures of living players are anything other than garbage. They aren't even close to sticker autos. They are simply a lazy and cheap way to get autos into a product.

Do me a favor. Call Lady Gaga and tell her Ill pay her $1000 per signature to be in Pop Century. Then tell her I will mow her lawn for 6 months if she'll do the deal too.

See, I am neither cheap not lazy.

In this case, I can do a deal with Maddux, Aaron ,etc and raise factory cost $20-30 box OR I can use cuts and provide better value to the collector.
Ill chose providing better value for $500, Alex.
BG

Theory, I do appreciate your opinion as it is well thought out and based on what IS known, rather than what is not.

p.s.- I love when collectors tell manufacturers they are cheap and lazy. Trust me, one week doing what we do to get deals done and make compelling products, you would be in awe (rather than judgment).

I loved this quote... BG keep doing what your doing, it will be a fun and exciting product to watch!

 

[Boylen33]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

You are right, the cut is not the primary hit in the pack. But what is? You have given us no checklist. Could it be that you are fearful the checklist will hurt the product even further than it has already been hurt? Obviously the demand is not keeping up with the supply, even if the supply is limited. Have you even announced how much product is available?

The rumor mill is that the product is sold out....to distributors. But apparently distributors can't move the product, hence the price drop. Of course, the product, once live, could prove me completely wrong and be a huge success, thus driving up product costs. But it seems to me that being as transparent with the customer from the get-go, from product announcement to release, is a better business model to follow.

I am not someone speaking off-the-cuff with little knowledge of the sports cards industry. It has, in fact, been an enormous part of my life since my early teenage years. I've managed a hobby shop and have been involved in thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars in sales and purchasing. I say that only to qualify myself as legitimate. Are there more knowledgeable individuals out there with regards to the sports card industry? Of course! But I promise I am not a casual player.

What is it with card companies? What happened to being honest and forthright with the customer? Topps is a great example pertaining to checklists-- even if they do release a preliminary checklist, there is normally a superfluous amount of TBA's included. I understand that at the time of product announcement the checklist is not finalized. But why can't companies even post checklists when it is finalized? It's not that hard to type out a list and post it on a simple HTML page on your website. I am not as familiar with Leaf, so you may, in fact, do this. If so, I applaud you.

I could go on and on about redemption, redemption fulfillment, sticker auto's, etc, etc. But we will stay on the topic at hand. Some of this stuff is so common sense that is frustrating to see card companies making the same mistakes over and over, when, in fact, there are some simple things that could be done to both increase the a company's bottom line and the value to the end consumer, or more importantly, the collector.

 

[matfanofold]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I see no reason a checklist would actually help sales for this product. However, with regards to the cut issues, BG said:

"In this case, I can do a deal with Maddux, Aaron ,etc and raise factory cost $20-30 box OR I can use cuts and provide better value to the collector."

What "value" are you providing? Clearly a few bucks more in cost is not a big deal when considering the additionl value of actual hard autos as opposed to cuts. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels the 'better value' would be with hard signed materials. I believe it should have been that 'better value' passed along to the customers.

Just my 2...

 

[bustin_knuckles]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

If you don't like the product don't buy it. It always seems like everyone likes to bash new releases from Leaf. Maybe it's because BG is the only person who responds to consumers interests, I know Topps doesn't. If I had the money I would buy it cause I'm tired of the same old crap everyone else puts out. And I would like a cut auto of a living player, like Frank Thomas the person I collect. I think it's a cool idea for people who actually collect but maybe it sucks for the people who just want to buy and flip. I know I'm going to prob get bashed but I have an opinion too.

 

[matfanofold]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

If you don't like the product don't buy it. It always seems like everyone likes to bash new releases from Leaf. Maybe it's because BG is the only person who responds to consumers interests, I know Topps doesn't. If I had the money I would buy it cause I'm tired of the same old crap everyone else puts out. And I would like a cut auto of a living player, like Frank Thomas the person I collect. I think it's a cool idea for people who actually collect but maybe it sucks for the people who just want to buy and flip. I know I'm going to prob get bashed but I have an opinion too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but who was bashing anything?

Is not the point of a messageboard to display opinion? Infact, I believe BG values these types of threads as it allows him to gain insight from both the praise and critical.

 

[mchenrycards]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I am not defending Brian as I will not be buying this product for purely economic reasons....my own, but havnt we beat his company and his practices up enough? Dont buy the product if you dont agree with him and let the market decide who is right. The market place will eventually say who is right or wrong. Seriously its just time to let it go guys!!

 

[bigalbert]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

It seems a majority of the people like A&G this year and I've seen some boxes broke that suck balls. Havent seen a thread about it tho.

 

[pigskincardboard]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I think the price drop is becuase the product blows. You have a very, very good chance of busting a box and not even making half your money back. Here's a good rule of thumb I wish companies would follow: If an individual is still alive, they SHOULD NOT have a cut signature. Half the cut sig checklist is players who are alive and well.

With all respect, how do you or anyone else know if it blows?

There is no checklist.
At this point, only I know what is in the product.

Once you open some (obviously not happening), feel free to come on and share an opinion based in fact rather than speculation.
BG

p.s.- cuts of living people and stickers of living people are the same thing. The only difference is the transparency of the medium.

Hey.

Where are your NPNs, you're like 10 products in, and I haven't seen a single NPN yet all the sales sheets say CHECK THE WEBSITE.

I eagerly await entering these as I've been waiting since the Strasburg Super product.

We hold a limited amount of each product for which we deem an NPN necessary.
These products generally are those with autographs or game used inserted at a random rate (not in every pack).
I will see that my team puts a generic link on the site with NPN info.
BG

There is no limited, there is only equal odds as stated with purchase.

There is no "necessary" there is only a product that relies on chance and products that do not rely on chance.

Please inform me as to the proper request platform for attaining the winners of these contests because that's exactly what I'll be doing.

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

Cut signatures of living players blow. That IS fact. Good luck with the product, Brian. I have liked most of what I have seen from Leaf thus far, but don't act like cut signatures of living players are anything other than garbage. They aren't even close to sticker autos. They are simply a lazy and cheap way to get autos into a product.

Do me a favor. Call Lady Gaga and tell her Ill pay her $1000 per signature to be in Pop Century. Then tell her I will mow her lawn for 6 months if she'll do the deal too.

See, I am neither cheap not lazy.

In this case, I can do a deal with Maddux, Aaron ,etc and raise factory cost $20-30 box OR I can use cuts and provide better value to the collector.
Ill chose providing better value for $500, Alex.
BG

Theory, I do appreciate your opinion as it is well thought out and based on what IS known, rather than what is not.

p.s.- I love when collectors tell manufacturers they are cheap and lazy. Trust me, one week doing what we do to get deals done and make compelling products, you would be in awe (rather than judgment).

I was clearly talking about "players". Of course cut autos of non-sports celebrities is different. My take is that if you can't do something right, don't do it at all. Cut autos of living players is just really dumb and it's not "doing it right" no matter how you spin it. Cutting up other auto cards for their autos is an awful practice and cut autos of living players is ridiculous. I know you have to back your product and stick up for it regardless, but come on. How many times do people have to complain about the stupid things card companies do before they simply stop doing them. No one wants a freaking cut auto of Hank Aaron, Andre Dawson or Greg Maddux or any living player for that matter when there are literally thousands of real options for certified autographs or authenticated IP autos of them. You aren't a dumb person, Brian. Stop acting like this is anything that collectors want.

I wish I ran a card company. I would lay-out unbreakable-under-any-circumstances guidelines and people would respect us for it instead of constantly selling-out for the all-mighty dollar. Bad ideas are bad ideas, so stay away from them... would be my motto. Give the people what they want, not what we want to give them... would be another. NO ONE is asking any card company for cut-autos of living players.

Unfortunately, on the fist bolded section, you would be out of business. I started with that mentality in 2008 with over 200 on-card signed cards (no redemptions) in my first product. Its all great with prospects, but not applicable in the real world.

On the second bolded section, people DO ask or these. They (on the whole) would rather us insert 100 maddux Cuts rather than 25 sticker autos (and believe it or not, our cost was the same on 100 cuts vs. 25 stickers!).. Trust me, the majorityof our customers prefer a Ken Griffey Jr. (living) cut to a Joe Sewell cut (deceased HOF).

To each their own... your wallet does the voting,... if no one buys a product, we wont make it! That has not been the case yet....
BG

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

You are right, the cut is not the primary hit in the pack. But what is? You have given us no checklist. Could it be that you are fearful the checklist will hurt the product even further than it has already been hurt? Obviously the demand is not keeping up with the supply, even if the supply is limited. Have you even announced how much product is available?

The rumor mill is that the product is sold out....to distributors. But apparently distributors can't move the product, hence the price drop. Of course, the product, once live, could prove me completely wrong and be a huge success, thus driving up product costs. But it seems to me that being as transparent with the customer from the get-go, from product announcement to release, is a better business model to follow.

I am not someone speaking off-the-cuff with little knowledge of the sports cards industry. It has, in fact, been an enormous part of my life since my early teenage years. I've managed a hobby shop and have been involved in thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars in sales and purchasing. I say that only to qualify myself as legitimate. Are there more knowledgeable individuals out there with regards to the sports card industry? Of course! But I promise I am not a casual player.

What is it with card companies? What happened to being honest and forthright with the customer? Topps is a great example pertaining to checklists-- even if they do release a preliminary checklist, there is normally a superfluous amount of TBA's included. I understand that at the time of product announcement the checklist is not finalized. But why can't companies even post checklists when it is finalized? It's not that hard to type out a list and post it on a simple HTML page on your website. I am not as familiar with Leaf, so you may, in fact, do this. If so, I applaud you.

I could go on and on about redemption, redemption fulfillment, sticker auto's, etc, etc. But we will stay on the topic at hand. Some of this stuff is so common sense that is frustrating to see card companies making the same mistakes over and over, when, in fact, there are some simple things that could be done to both increase the a company's bottom line and the value to the end consumer, or more importantly, the collector.

I understand your cautiousness, however stating that a product is "weak" or "underperforming" because one dealer lowers a case $20 is the ultimate over-reaction...
Well let the product do the talking.

The reason no checklist has been released is that there are over 2500 different cards possible for the non-cut hit per pack. Plus, the element of surprise adds to the fun in my opinion.

BG

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I see no reason a checklist would actually help sales for this product. However, with regards to the cut issues, BG said:

"In this case, I can do a deal with Maddux, Aaron ,etc and raise factory cost $20-30 box OR I can use cuts and provide better value to the collector."

What "value" are you providing? Clearly a few bucks more in cost is not a big deal when considering the additionl value of actual hard autos as opposed to cuts. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels the 'better value' would be with hard signed materials. I believe it should have been that 'better value' passed along to the customers.

Just my 2...

Here is an example... I bought the remaning Gartlan inventory of Aaron cuts at $20 per. If I do a deal with Aaaron, the price is $150 per.
Do you want 1 Aaron and 6 1980's retreads OR 7 Aaron?

Trust me when I say, 4 of the 17 signatures are MUCH more plentiful than the rest (10 of the 17 are actually short prints)... and trust me, they are NOT the ones youd guess!
BG

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

If you don't like the product don't buy it. It always seems like everyone likes to bash new releases from Leaf. Maybe it's because BG is the only person who responds to consumers interests, I know Topps doesn't. If I had the money I would buy it cause I'm tired of the same old crap everyone else puts out. And I would like a cut auto of a living player, like Frank Thomas the person I collect. I think it's a cool idea for people who actually collect but maybe it sucks for the people who just want to buy and flip. I know I'm going to prob get bashed but I have an opinion too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but who was bashing anything?

Is not the point of a messageboard to display opinion? Infact, I believe BG values these types of threads as it allows him to gain insight from both the praise and critical.

+1...
While I always welcome someone stepping to my defense when the haters come out, I DO value these exchanges as I am THE most concerned manufacturer about the feedback of both fans and non-fans...
BG

 

[ballerskrip]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I understand your cautiousness, however stating that a product is "weak" or "underperforming" because one dealer lowers a case $20 is the ultimate over-reaction...
Well let the product do the talking.

The reason no checklist has been released is that there are over 2500 different cards possible for the non-cut hit per pack. Plus, the element of surprise adds to the fun in my opinion.

BG[/quote]

I have to agree. Blowout raising or lowering means jack crap. Remember 2010 Topps Chrome? Remember Blowout pumping the price for months pre-sell? I realize this is the opposite scenario, but stil valid. I have saidit many times, I will say it again, Blowout and their pricing doesn't mean ****.

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

I think the price drop is becuase the product blows. You have a very, very good chance of busting a box and not even making half your money back. Here's a good rule of thumb I wish companies would follow: If an individual is still alive, they SHOULD NOT have a cut signature. Half the cut sig checklist is players who are alive and well.

With all respect, how do you or anyone else know if it blows?

There is no checklist.
At this point, only I know what is in the product.

Once you open some (obviously not happening), feel free to come on and share an opinion based in fact rather than speculation.
BG

p.s.- cuts of living people and stickers of living people are the same thing. The only difference is the transparency of the medium.

Hey.

Where are your NPNs, you're like 10 products in, and I haven't seen a single NPN yet all the sales sheets say CHECK THE WEBSITE.

I eagerly await entering these as I've been waiting since the Strasburg Super product.

We hold a limited amount of each product for which we deem an NPN necessary.
These products generally are those with autographs or game used inserted at a random rate (not in every pack).
I will see that my team puts a generic link on the site with NPN info.
BG

There is no limited, there is only equal odds as stated with purchase.

There is no "necessary" there is only a product that relies on chance and products that do not rely on chance.

Please inform me as to the proper request platform for attaining the winners of these contests because that's exactly what I'll be doing.

1> Unfortunately, we do not make available lists of our customer (for obvious competitive reasons).

2> YES there is a limited quantity available of cards for each release... The law, nor any reasonable person, expects any company of making available NPN quantities equal to its print run... That ludicrous and cannot even be taken seriously.... EVERY COMPANY HAS A LIMITED SUPPLY, IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

3> Yes, we believe "necessary" is an element. If you get one presidential cut signature per pack, there is not a CHANCE you will receive one... you will! If we insert 1 auto in every 5 packs, then we send out inserts (in this case, autos) at that rate WHILE SUPPLIES LAST. If you dont agree, send the company that supplies bubble gum machines a NPN request since there is a chance you will get red vs. yellow vs. ????....

4> For the record, we do not believe in any way that the purchase of our many products constitute "gambling", on the contrary, we do not believe we have any legal obligation for an NPN program. While we do not feel a legal obligation, we offer this as a program for the sole benefit of those customers who for one reason or another are unable to participate in enjoying a particular release. This is done witha sense of loyalty to our customers.

BG

p.s. #1- on a personal note, I believe customers who abuse NPN programs that are offered do so at the detriment of collectors worldwide, as the companies build these costs into what paying collectors pay for products. Consider as an example people who fake injuries for insurance or scam the govt out of unemployment or food stamps... someone has to pay... THE REST OF US...

P.S. #2- I will however take your thoughts into consideration with my team and let you know in the near future the result.

 

[maxpower]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

You are right, the cut is not the primary hit in the pack. But what is? You have given us no checklist. Could it be that you are fearful the checklist will hurt the product even further than it has already been hurt? Obviously the demand is not keeping up with the supply, even if the supply is limited. Have you even announced how much product is available?

The rumor mill is that the product is sold out....to distributors. But apparently distributors can't move the product, hence the price drop. Of course, the product, once live, could prove me completely wrong and be a huge success, thus driving up product costs. But it seems to me that being as transparent with the customer from the get-go, from product announcement to release, is a better business model to follow.

I am not someone speaking off-the-cuff with little knowledge of the sports cards industry. It has, in fact, been an enormous part of my life since my early teenage years. I've managed a hobby shop and have been involved in thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars in sales and purchasing. I say that only to qualify myself as legitimate. Are there more knowledgeable individuals out there with regards to the sports card industry? Of course! But I promise I am not a casual player.

What is it with card companies? What happened to being honest and forthright with the customer? Topps is a great example pertaining to checklists-- even if they do release a preliminary checklist, there is normally a superfluous amount of TBA's included. I understand that at the time of product announcement the checklist is not finalized. But why can't companies even post checklists when it is finalized? It's not that hard to type out a list and post it on a simple HTML page on your website. I am not as familiar with Leaf, so you may, in fact, do this. If so, I applaud you.

I could go on and on about redemption, redemption fulfillment, sticker auto's, etc, etc. But we will stay on the topic at hand. Some of this stuff is so common sense that is frustrating to see card companies making the same mistakes over and over, when, in fact, there are some simple things that could be done to both increase the a company's bottom line and the value to the end consumer, or more importantly, the collector.

I understand your cautiousness, however stating that a product is "weak" or "underperforming" because one dealer lowers a case $20 is the ultimate over-reaction...
Well let the product do the talking.

The reason no checklist has been released is that there are over 2500 different cards possible for the non-cut hit per pack. Plus, the element of surprise adds to the fun in my opinion.

BG

You make a fair point about jumping to conclusions, however, this repeated rationale for not releasing a checklist seems a little thin. In this age of websites and PDFs, you can easily make a large checklist public with little cost. As for the element of surprise, I suspect that the number of collectors who want to make an informed decision on this $200/pack product FAR outstrips the number who feel that buying in the dark is "fun". Those collectors can always choose not to look at the checklist too.

Absent a more compelling reason for not releasing the info, many people will suspect (and not irrationally), that you're trying to hide a lack of value in the product. I'm not accusing you of such... I'm merely explaining why many people feel the way that they do.

As for the fans who will inevitably leap to your defense, I understand that BG has put out some nice products and I appreciate that he comes here to answer hard questions. I have nothing against him, and would just like to get some additional clarification on what seems to be one of the sorest subjects with regard to this Leaf baseball release.

 

[pigskincardboard]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

[quote="Boylen33":3ilynsmb]I think the price drop is becuase the product blows. You have a very, very good chance of busting a box and not even making half your money back. Here's a good rule of thumb I wish companies would follow: If an individual is still alive, they SHOULD NOT have a cut signature. Half the cut sig checklist is players who are alive and well.

With all respect, how do you or anyone else know if it blows?

There is no checklist.
At this point, only I know what is in the product.

Once you open some (obviously not happening), feel free to come on and share an opinion based in fact rather than speculation.
BG

p.s.- cuts of living people and stickers of living people are the same thing. The only difference is the transparency of the medium.

Hey.

Where are your NPNs, you're like 10 products in, and I haven't seen a single NPN yet all the sales sheets say CHECK THE WEBSITE.

I eagerly await entering these as I've been waiting since the Strasburg Super product.

We hold a limited amount of each product for which we deem an NPN necessary.
These products generally are those with autographs or game used inserted at a random rate (not in every pack).
I will see that my team puts a generic link on the site with NPN info.
BG

There is no limited, there is only equal odds as stated with purchase.

There is no "necessary" there is only a product that relies on chance and products that do not rely on chance.

Please inform me as to the proper request platform for attaining the winners of these contests because that's exactly what I'll be doing.

1> Unfortunately, we do not make available lists of our customer (for obvious competitive reasons).

2> YES there is a limited quantity available of cards for each release... The law, nor any reasonable person, expects any company of making available NPN quantities equal to its print run... That ludicrous and cannot even be taken seriously.... EVERY COMPANY HAS A LIMITED SUPPLY, IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

3> Yes, we believe "necessary" is an element. If you get one presidential cut signature per pack, there is not a CHANCE you will receive one... you will! If we insert 1 auto in every 5 packs, then we send out inserts (in this case, autos) at that rate WHILE SUPPLIES LAST. If you dont agree, send the company that supplies bubble gum machines a NPN request since there is a chance you will get red vs. yellow vs. ????....

4> For the record, we do not in any way concede that the purchase of our many of our products constitute "chance", nor do we consider No Purchase Necessary a "contest".
While we do not feel a legal obligation, we offer this as a program for the sole benefit of those customers who for one reason or another are unable to participate in enjoying a particular release.

BG

p.s.- on a personal note, I believe customers who abuse NPN programs that are offered do so at the detriment of collectors worldwide, as the companies build these costs into what paying collectors pay for products.[/quote:3ilynsmb]

Your utter disregard or blatant ignorance of the law is a joke.

 

[Leaf]

Re: Leaf Best of Baseball Presell Prices Went Down

You are right, the cut is not the primary hit in the pack. But what is? You have given us no checklist. Could it be that you are fearful the checklist will hurt the product even further than it has already been hurt? Obviously the demand is not keeping up with the supply, even if the supply is limited. Have you even announced how much product is available?

The rumor mill is that the product is sold out....to distributors. But apparently distributors can't move the product, hence the price drop. Of course, the product, once live, could prove me completely wrong and be a huge success, thus driving up product costs. But it seems to me that being as transparent with the customer from the get-go, from product announcement to release, is a better business model to follow.

I am not someone speaking off-the-cuff with little knowledge of the sports cards industry. It has, in fact, been an enormous part of my life since my early teenage years. I've managed a hobby shop and have been involved in thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars in sales and purchasing. I say that only to qualify myself as legitimate. Are there more knowledgeable individuals out there with regards to the sports card industry? Of course! But I promise I am not a casual player.

What is it with card companies? What happened to being honest and forthright with the customer? Topps is a great example pertaining to checklists-- even if they do release a preliminary checklist, there is normally a superfluous amount of TBA's included. I understand that at the time of product announcement the checklist is not finalized. But why can't companies even post checklists when it is finalized? It's not that hard to type out a list and post it on a simple HTML page on your website. I am not as familiar with Leaf, so you may, in fact, do this. If so, I applaud you.

I could go on and on about redemption, redemption fulfillment, sticker auto's, etc, etc. But we will stay on the topic at hand. Some of this stuff is so common sense that is frustrating to see card companies making the same mistakes over and over, when, in fact, there are some simple things that could be done to both increase the a company's bottom line and the value to the end consumer, or more importantly, the collector.

I understand your cautiousness, however stating that a product is "weak" or "underperforming" because one dealer lowers a case $20 is the ultimate over-reaction...
Well let the product do the talking.

The reason no checklist has been released is that there are over 2500 different cards possible for the non-cut hit per pack. Plus, the element of surprise adds to the fun in my opinion.

BG

You make a fair point about jumping to conclusions, however, this repeated rationale for not releasing a checklist seems a little thin. In this age of websites and PDFs, you can easily make a large checklist public with little cost. As for the element of surprise, I suspect that the number of collectors who want to make an informed decision on this $200/pack product FAR outstrips the number who feel that buying in the dark is "fun". Those collectors can always choose not to look at the checklist too.

Absent a more compelling reason for not releasing the info, many people will suspect (and not irrationally), that you're trying to hide a lack of value in the product. I'm not accusing you of such... I'm merely explaining why many people feel the way that they do.

As for the fans who will inevitably leap to your defense, I understand that BG has put out some nice products and I appreciate that he comes here to answer hard questions. I have nothing against him, and would just like to get some additional clarification on what seems to be one of the sorest subjects with regard to this Leaf baseball release.

In that case, honestly, I wouldnt buy the product if I were that consumer for whom the checklist is the sole decision making fact.
This is a buyback product with a massive checklist. We did release a checklist for 2010 Rookie Retro (as we will with 2011 Retro later this year), however this checklist is massively larger than that checklist.

What I can say is that the cards range from T206 HOF's to 2010 Chrome Buyback Harper BGS 9 (with 10 auto) to Koufax Certified autos to Topps Traded Ripken auto rc's.
It can literally be ANY nice card from the last 100+ years (that fits product guidelines as stated previously).

It is not for everyone, but for those who enjoy the mystery, it should be fun.
BG