Leaf / Bigboydsportscards / Purple Refractors

[hofmichael]

My issue I take with this is that as a stated print run of 25, should not have all 25 been made available to the open market? Selling, giving, or otherwise handing over large quantities to a single reseller seems just left of integrity. I mean, if Topps had a stated print run of /50 on all gold auto cards but only packed out half and sold, sent, gave the rest to a private reseller, this board would be up in arms and BG himself would have chimed in stating how Topps was the devil for doing so. Bottom line is that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and this just seems like the wrong way to do things. And although I am not calling anyone a liar, I do not believe for one second that Brian Gray did not know what had happened to a rather large stash of purple /25 auto cards that had substantial value. He has ALWAYS known his companies every move intimatly, even packing out cards himself. Now in the wake of yet another issue he suddenly had no idea...? In the end, he broke no law and made no promises. They were his cards to do with what he wants. It is just another example of who BG is, what his company stands for, and what we can expect when buying his products...

I am glad I am not the only one looking at things without blinders on.

 

[Krom]

I am glad I am not the only one looking at things without blinders on.

History has a way of repeating itself. *cough razor cough*

 

[jcmint]

Why is it that the same group of people always end up with the no numbered ref's unsigned autos special cards etc. its the same dam sellers always. BG without adding hate to this thread but you are a hands on guy we all know that. One guy has majority of that product and you dont know how. Many of us here and actual supporters of Leaf products would like to know. Some people are here to make you look bad correct but some are just looking for a viable answer. Whne you "know" something drop us a line. Yes the razor series is still a thorn in many of our asses but you have put out some nice products and should be commended.

 

[ballerskrip]

Why is it that the same group of people always end up with the no numbered ref's unsigned autos special cards etc. its the same dam sellers always. BG without adding hate to this thread but you are a hands on guy we all know that. One guy has majority of that product and you dont know how. Many of us here and actual supporters of Leaf products would like to know. Some people are here to make you look bad correct but some are just looking for a viable answer. Whne you "know" something drop us a line. Yes the razor series is still a thorn in many of our asses but you have put out some nice products and should be commended.

I agree, I have a TON Of Javier Baez Leaf stuff, along with another 30-40 purple autos, etc. I am a fan, for the scarcity and price point, it makes sense. BUT, I am curious as to how Mr. Big Boyd got all of these cards. I have mentioned multiple times in this thread that there are legitimate reasons why he has them, but it has been quantity, and for a long time.

BG, this is not a shot at you, I would ask the same no matter what the brand. You have been nothing but good team me in our dealings. But I sure am curious as to how he got them all. My instincts tell me that he has been buying many collections that include these cards, that is what my gut is telling me.

 

[hofmichael]

There probably wouldn't be half as many skeptical people if it were a different seller but this guy is known for shady XXXX.

 

[Krom]

There probably wouldn't be half as many skeptical people if it were a different seller but this guy is known for shady XXXX.

Exactly. Its also a bit shady that BG posts that he didn't sell to Boyd only to edit that part out.
Edit after rereading his edited post it says he never sold any to this party but i believe the original post said he didn't sell or give any of them to Bigboyd.

 

[Sean_C]

In total agreement with everything said.

My issue I take with this is that as a stated print run of 25, should not have all 25 been made available to the open market? Selling, giving, or otherwise handing over large quantities to a single reseller seems just left of integrity. I mean, if Topps had a stated print run of /50 on all gold auto cards but only packed out half and sold, sent, gave the rest to a private reseller, this board would be up in arms and BG himself would have chimed in stating how Topps was the devil for doing so. Bottom line is that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and this just seems like the wrong way to do things. And although I am not calling anyone a liar, I do not believe for one second that Brian Gray did not know what had happened to a rather large stash of purple /25 auto cards that had substantial value. He has ALWAYS known his companies every move intimatly, even packing out cards himself. Now in the wake of yet another issue he suddenly had no idea...? In the end, he broke no law and made no promises. They were his cards to do with what he wants. It is just another example of who BG is, what his company stands for, and what we can expect when buying his products...

 

[Sean_C]

He edited what out?

There probably wouldn't be half as many skeptical people if it were a different seller but this guy is known for shady XXXX.

 

[hofmichael]

Exactly. Its also a bit shady that BG posts that he didn't sell to Boyd only to edit that part out.

Haha I didn't check back to see the edit.It is funny to see how many sheep are no longer in BG's flock.

 

[Krom]

Haha I didn't check back to see the edit.It is funny to see how many sheep are no longer in BG's flock.

His earlier post said he didn't give or sell the cards to Bigboyd and mentioned them by name. In the edit it says they never sold a card to this party.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

As long as the printed odds of pulling said card on a pack were accurate, I see no problem with whatever happened.

Besides... almost all these cards were going to hit eBay if they were pulled from packs anyway.

I think many people here like to 'be in control' of their part of the hobby and envy others who actually have it

My issue I take with this is that as a stated print run of 25, should not have all 25 been made available to the open market? Selling, giving, or otherwise handing over large quantities to a single reseller seems just left of integrity. I mean, if Topps had a stated print run of /50 on all gold auto cards but only packed out half and sold, sent, gave the rest to a private reseller, this board would be up in arms and BG himself would have chimed in stating how Topps was the devil for doing so. Bottom line is that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and this just seems like the wrong way to do things. And although I am not calling anyone a liar, I do not believe for one second that Brian Gray did not know what had happened to a rather large stash of purple /25 auto cards that had substantial value. He has ALWAYS known his companies every move intimatly, even packing out cards himself. Now in the wake of yet another issue he suddenly had no idea...? In the end, he broke no law and made no promises. They were his cards to do with what he wants. It is just another example of who BG is, what his company stands for, and what we can expect when buying his products...

 

[hofmichael]

As long as the printed odds of pulling said card on a pack were accurate, I see no problem with whatever happened.

Besides... almost all these cards were going to hit eBay if they were pulled from packs anyway.

I think many people here like to 'be in control' of their part of the hobby and envy others who actually have it

I think many people would like a fair shot to pull what is supposed to be inserted in the product.I also think many people want to find out months later that they had little shot at pulling something in particular because it was distributed by other means.

 

[ballerskrip]

I think many people would like a fair shot to pull what is supposed to be inserted in the product.I also think many people want to find out months later that they had little shot at pulling something in particular because it was distributed by other means.

While I agree some form of what you are saying, if they only produced say 2000 boxes, and they were seeded one per box, and there are 4000 cards, I am not sure how anyone was shorted, etc. Would I love to hear that a particular seller was able to buy all of the leftovers, no not really. But it wasn't at the expense of the pack buyers either way.

 

[Krom]

While I agree some form of what you are saying, if they only produced say 2000 boxes, and they were seeded one per box, and there are 4000 cards, I am not sure how anyone was shorted, etc. Would I love to hear that a particular seller was able to buy all of the leftovers, no not really. But it wasn't at the expense of the pack buyers either way.

Thats only one way of looking at it. Some might be worried that they weren't able to pull some of these cards where others might be worried about the future value of their cards with "leftovers" now in the picture.

 

[sportscardtheory]

While I agree some form of what you are saying, if they only produced say 2000 boxes, and they were seeded one per box, and there are 4000 cards, I am not sure how anyone was shorted, etc. Would I love to hear that a particular seller was able to buy all of the leftovers, no not really. But it wasn't at the expense of the pack buyers either way.

I can see where he's coming from though. If you pulled a crap player auto/25, and then "backdoored" versions of better players are being sold off away from the product, you never really had an honest chance at pulling that better player instead of the crap player you did pull.

 

[George_Calfas]

How many Ichiro autos were packed out?

 

[hofmichael]

How many Ichiro autos were packed out?

He won't answer because you are not adding anything useful to the thread.

 

[WJCIII]

I think many people would like a fair shot to pull what is supposed to be inserted in the product.I also think many people want to find out months later that they had little shot at pulling something in particular because it was distributed by other means.

More than 1 person has shown you the math and it is obvious these were extras so there's no reason why a person couldn't pull what they were supposed to. EVERY card manufacturer gives out there left overs for customer service issues, as replacements, etc. If you've got a guy that buys a ton of wax and gets damaged cards or falls below the odds for whatever reason then he's going to get a lot of replacements. Again, every single company does it.

My problem here is that 50% of the people bashing BG have never spent a dime on his product and never will, they just want to complain. Yes, I'm a Leaf supporter. I've had nothing but good experiences with their customer service and it has been my experience that their products carry much more value than a 1 auto per box Topps product. I have also seen Leaf's facility and I can assure you there is no way for BG to know every little thing that goes on. That's why he has a customer service department. The guy said he would find out what happened and respond and I believe he'll do it. You guys aren't even giving him a chance to answer your questions before you bash away.

 

[hofmichael]

More than 1 person has shown you the math and it is obvious these were extras so there's no reason why a person couldn't pull what they were supposed to. EVERY card manufacturer gives out there left overs for customer service issues, as replacements, etc. If you've got a guy that buys a ton of wax and gets damaged cards or falls below the odds for whatever reason then he's going to get a lot of replacements. Again, every single company does it.

My problem here is that 50% of the people bashing BG have never spent a dime on his product and never will, they just want to complain. Yes, I'm a Leaf supporter. I've had nothing but good experiences with their customer service and it has been my experience that their products carry much more value than a 1 auto per box Topps product. I have also seen Leaf's facility and I can assure you there is no way for BG to know every little thing that goes on. That's why he has a customer service department. The guy said he would find out what happened and respond and I believe he'll do it. You guys aren't even giving him a chance to answer your questions before you bash away.

First off you have no clue what I spend my money on.I don't take issue with this because I am bored.I take issue because I have money involved.Second, you made it clear you are a Leaf supporter so of course you wouldn't entertain the thought that there may be something fishy going on.I'll wait for his explanation and the give away that will follow.

 

[matfanofold]

I can appreciate that people will have differing opinions here based on their invlovment, having said that I appreciate any and all opinions by hobby members (vested in LEAF or not) regardless if it differes from mine. Just left to the point in hand, I am invested in a specific prospect in Valiant. I have many blue /99 and a good chunck of the orange /25 print run for this perticular player. When the purple /25 were released I felt it was kinda a kick in the junk that my /25 oranges now had a rival /25 (purple) that could potentially lessen the value of the original /25 oranges. But more to the specific point, If I were to find out that only half the orange /25's that I am actively collecting were packed out and all the rest were sold/traded/given to someone, I would be pissed. Many, including myself, buy in to something not only based off of projected value and/or availability but also the notion that we all have an equal oppertunity to obtain these cards is somewhat inherent. The bottom line is that a large part of this print run was never offered or available to the public directly from LEAF. They 'found' their way to a third party dealer who can hoard or sell them at their whim, and as a player collector, this would/does not sit well with me.

Again, and trying to make an apples to apples comparison here, what if bowman chrome had a stated print run of /50 for all their gold autos however the total packout only used 50%. Then they backdoored the rest to me. Now I hold 50% of the market on all the gold /50 autos. Is this fair to all the prospectors and collectors who were actively busting and buying on the open market? Is this fair to all thoes who spend their money on a product/prospect with a simple assumption that everyone would have an equal oppertunity to aquire based off a stated print run? I know this all boils down to opinion, and again I understand that depending on your vested interest(s) it wil ldiffer, but to think that this practice of backdooring a surpluss of a stated printrun simply because you did not pack it out, is not something we want to encourage.