Leaf is back!

[uniquebaseballcards]

Yes - looking in from the outside, Razor more or less acted like a prospector itself, with its target audience being other prospectors. I think some prospectors like to think they're the top link of the chain and can control or predict or correctly speculate any or all variables, but Razor is another instance that shows this isn't true.

Anyone knows a forum where I can compain about a cereal box I bought? I tried to turn my purchase into profit, but haven't been able to. Die Frosted Flakes! Die!

Depends, did the company owner tell you the cereal would be worth money in 5 years with an attitude?

(Im not directing this at the OP, but in general)

This right here is a classic example of why prospectors lose money: they put too much faith into what someone says instead of doing the thinking for themselves

If I told you that I had a bridge in Phoenix to sell you, would you buy it without doing some research first? Same with buying a car. Do you walk into the car dealership and believe everything the salesman tells you?

I doubt it.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Now, that is not to say Razor didnt do shady things, but to blame them for your loss/unwise prospecting isnt fair.

People make promises all the time, and if Razor kept saying "we wont release any more like this, we promise", after the second time being let down, why did you keep buying? Didnt you see the writing on the wall with 2 previous examples? A company will do whatever is in it's best interests to make money and profit. If a sig series type brand sells well, why do you think they'd stop making it?

Once again, not condoning Razor's business practices but sometimes looking in the mirror is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[loftlife]

Someone left the closet door open, and the skeletons are coming out... ::facepalm::

Those are not skeletons...

 

[loftlife]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Yeah, nobody ever pimps on these boards, or the Beckett boards, or ...

Boards are a great way to market subtely or directly.

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

 

[Sly]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

 

[Crash Davis]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

 

[rico08]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

As long as it doesn't take away from the feeling of this message board at-large, I wish Topps, UD, and Leaf/Razor Entertainment would all have marketing dept/reps present on the boards.

 

[Sly]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

And you believe everything that is told to you, especially from someone who is trying to make a buck? If you think everyone in the business world is 100% good...then you've got another thing coming.

And how did he ruin the value of his cards? Was it any different than Topps delivering new Bowman products every year (Originals, Platinum, etc.) Wouldn't those new products continue to ruin the value of regular Bowman/Draft/Chrome? No...what ruined the value was that Razor was not one of the "Big 3" card companies and they were unlicensed products. Yet people bought into it...

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

I'm not sure about the "pimping"...
Maybe Atlanta, Global, and D&A's could save some of their sponsor money and just pimp their products in threads??? Not sure that would go over too well...

Instead of a paid sponsors we should just make "pimp" threads?
No sponsors, no revenue, no boards..... Not good. ::facepalm::

 

[Crash Davis]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

And you believe everything that is told to you, especially from someone who is trying to make a buck? If you think everyone in the business world is 100% good...then you've got another thing coming.

And how did he ruin the value of his cards? Was it any different than Topps delivering new Bowman products every year (Originals, Platinum, etc.) Wouldn't those new products continue to ruin the value of regular Bowman/Draft/Chrome? No...what ruined the value was that Razor was not one of the "Big 3" card companies and they were unlicensed products. Yet people bought into it...

Where have you been Sly?

Of course it's different. Gray owned the company, promised he would do this and wouldn't do that, people believed him because - GULP! He's the owner of the company - and he reneged.

At least with Topps, you knew what you were going to get - Bowman and Bowman Chrome and Bowman Sterling and Bowman Draft Picks, etc.

What ruined Razor's value wasn't the fact that they were unlicensed. I mean, it wasn't like they started out as an MLBP and/or MLBPA-licensed company and the license got revoked like Upper Deck's did. No, what ruined the value was the constant posturing and repositioning that Gray did with his products and the steady stream of bullshyte he fed to his customers who spent A LOT of money on his products based upon the various promises he made to his "beloved" customer base.

While Gray considers me a Topps shill, I am speaking objectively here. If Topps pulled a fast one on people like he did, I'd be sure to tell them and I do. I hate Tribute and I think that it's a shame that they had the nerve to include autographs of Orlando Cabrera and Bengie Molina (among others) in a $50 per pack product. But I digress...

The fact of the matter is that Gray decided to concoct some elaborate, over-indulgent, narcissistic announcement at The National, touting the new Leaf Trading Cards brand, for which he now is the President/CEO (or whatever), with all the same people from Razor, and that the Leaf Trading Card company acquired Razor's non-baseball brands, when, according to public records, the LEAF moniker was owned by two private equity groups, and still may be, but IN NAME ONLY.

So, the big "acquisition" that Gray keeps talking about doesn't seem like much of an acquisition at all.

 

[DINANBBS]

i just want candy

 

[Sly]

[quote="Crash Davis":2u3gvzdu]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

And you believe everything that is told to you, especially from someone who is trying to make a buck? If you think everyone in the business world is 100% good...then you've got another thing coming.

And how did he ruin the value of his cards? Was it any different than Topps delivering new Bowman products every year (Originals, Platinum, etc.) Wouldn't those new products continue to ruin the value of regular Bowman/Draft/Chrome? No...what ruined the value was that Razor was not one of the "Big 3" card companies and they were unlicensed products. Yet people bought into it...

Where have you been Sly?

Of course it's different. Gray owned the company, promised he would do this and wouldn't do that, people believed him because - GULP! He's the owner of the company - and he reneged.

At least with Topps, you knew what you were going to get - Bowman and Bowman Chrome and Bowman Sterling and Bowman Draft Picks, etc.

What ruined Razor's value wasn't the fact that they were unlicensed. I mean, it wasn't like they started out as an MLBP and/or MLBPA-licensed company and the license got revoked like Upper Deck's did. No, what ruined the value was the constant posturing and repositioning that Gray did with his products and the steady stream of bullshyte he fed to his customers who spent A LOT of money on his products based upon the various promises he made to his "beloved" customer base.

While Gray considers me a Topps shill, I am speaking objectively here. If Topps pulled a fast one on people like he did, I'd be sure to tell them and I do. I hate Tribute and I think that it's a shame that they had the nerve to include autographs of Orlando Cabrera and Bengie Molina (among others) in a $50 per pack product. But I digress...

The fact of the matter is that Gray decided to concoct some elaborate, over-indulgent, narcissistic announcement at The National, touting the new Leaf Trading Cards brand, for which he now is the President/CEO (or whatever), with all the same people from Razor, and that the Leaf Trading Card company acquired Razor's non-baseball brands, when, according to public records, the LEAF moniker was owned by two private equity groups, and still may be, but IN NAME ONLY.

So, the big "acquisition" that Gray keeps talking about doesn't seem like much of an acquisition at all.[/quote:2u3gvzdu]

So Brian's issue was coming on here and DISCUSSING his plan, which other companies don't do. Okay, fine, blame Brian for talking about it. But blame all the prospectors for believing it.

What worries me more is the amount of people that do believe what is fed to them from business owners/CEO's. For as much as the prospectors are about the "business" of prospecting, they don't seem to know a damn thing about business...that being that everything changes on a regular basis. Owners/CEO's do just that, they spew BS to everyone to make everything look good, but if you believe everything that is told to you, then you're extremely naive

Hell, the last 5-year plan I was part of, died after 3 years and thousands of people (myself included) were out of jobs.

 

[Crash Davis]

[quote="Crash Davis":2gdlnvco]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

And you believe everything that is told to you, especially from someone who is trying to make a buck? If you think everyone in the business world is 100% good...then you've got another thing coming.

And how did he ruin the value of his cards? Was it any different than Topps delivering new Bowman products every year (Originals, Platinum, etc.) Wouldn't those new products continue to ruin the value of regular Bowman/Draft/Chrome? No...what ruined the value was that Razor was not one of the "Big 3" card companies and they were unlicensed products. Yet people bought into it...

Where have you been Sly?

Of course it's different. Gray owned the company, promised he would do this and wouldn't do that, people believed him because - GULP! He's the owner of the company - and he reneged.

At least with Topps, you knew what you were going to get - Bowman and Bowman Chrome and Bowman Sterling and Bowman Draft Picks, etc.

What ruined Razor's value wasn't the fact that they were unlicensed. I mean, it wasn't like they started out as an MLBP and/or MLBPA-licensed company and the license got revoked like Upper Deck's did. No, what ruined the value was the constant posturing and repositioning that Gray did with his products and the steady stream of bullshyte he fed to his customers who spent A LOT of money on his products based upon the various promises he made to his "beloved" customer base.

While Gray considers me a Topps shill, I am speaking objectively here. If Topps pulled a fast one on people like he did, I'd be sure to tell them and I do. I hate Tribute and I think that it's a shame that they had the nerve to include autographs of Orlando Cabrera and Bengie Molina (among others) in a $50 per pack product. But I digress...

The fact of the matter is that Gray decided to concoct some elaborate, over-indulgent, narcissistic announcement at The National, touting the new Leaf Trading Cards brand, for which he now is the President/CEO (or whatever), with all the same people from Razor, and that the Leaf Trading Card company acquired Razor's non-baseball brands, when, according to public records, the LEAF moniker was owned by two private equity groups, and still may be, but IN NAME ONLY.

So, the big "acquisition" that Gray keeps talking about doesn't seem like much of an acquisition at all.

So Brian's issue was coming on here and DISCUSSING his plan, which other companies don't do. Okay, fine, blame Brian for talking about it. But blame all the prospectors for believing it.

What worries me more is the amount of people that do believe what is fed to them from business owners/CEO's. For as much as the prospectors are about the "business" of prospecting, they don't seem to know a damn thing about business...that being that everything changes on a regular basis. Owners/CEO's do just that, they spew BS to everyone to make everything look good, but if you believe everything that is told to you, then you're extremely naive

Hell, the last 5-year plan I was part of, died after 3 years and thousands of people (myself included) were out of jobs.[/quote:2gdlnvco]

I agree with you 100%.

 

[nyc3]

What worries me more is the amount of people that do believe what is fed to them from business owners/CEO's. For as much as the prospectors are about the "business" of prospecting, they don't seem to know a damn thing about business...that being that everything changes on a regular basis. Owners/CEO's do just that, they spew BS to everyone to make everything look good, but if you believe everything that is told to you, then you're extremely naive

Hell, the last 5-year plan I was part of, died after 3 years and thousands of people (myself included) were out of jobs.

It wasn't only the ceo, its his job to feed people what they want to hear so for him its kinda understandable, well besides the back tracking circle talk. It was the people that didn't work for razor who bought a few cases who would roam this board waiting to say someone is crazy and filled with "conspiracies" and how they need a tin foil hat. People who where respected for their prospecting knowledge claiming they where the next best thing and comparing them to bowman in every breath.

 

[HPC]

What worries me more is the amount of people that do believe what is fed to them from business owners/CEO's. For as much as the prospectors are about the "business" of prospecting, they don't seem to know a damn thing about business...that being that everything changes on a regular basis. Owners/CEO's do just that, they spew BS to everyone to make everything look good, but if you believe everything that is told to you, then you're extremely naive

Hell, the last 5-year plan I was part of, died after 3 years and thousands of people (myself included) were out of jobs.

It wasn't only the ceo, its his job to feed people what they want to hear so for him its kinda understandable, well besides the back tracking circle talk. It was the people that didn't work for razor who bought a few cases who would roam this board waiting to say someone is crazy and filled with "conspiracies" and how they need a tin foil hat. People who where respected for their prospecting knowledge claiming they where the next best thing and comparing them to bowman in every breath.

That's why people lose their ass off

They would rather rely on other people than do any work

 

[Sean_C]

To quote the old Tom Waits paraphrase, "There's a sucker born every minute. You just happened to be coming along at the right time..."

 

[notjomommasclint]

Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a ****?

 

[theplasticman]

Thought this would be appropriate... and to maybe lighten things up a touch...

 

[kentuckyderby]

Razor threads make me want to do one of two things: kill myself; or kill a bunch of other people. I still can't decide which.

What exactly did Razor do wrong? They released a quality, on card autograph set in 2008 Sig Series. They released Lettermen as well. I hate manufactured patch autos, but the Razor ones are pretty well made. They released Metal parallels on Ebay. Ok. Parallels aren't new to the hobby. They released the prismatic "proof" cards as well. Effectively the same thing Topps does with encased blankback proofs sold through the Topps Vault.

People hate Razor because they're prospectors. They lost money on an investment, so they come whine about it on a messageboard. It isn't Razor's fault you lost money on their product. It's your fault because you're an idiot who's trying to make money on baseball cards

That worth at least a thanks. Especialy the "idiot" part. Someone should add a crying smilies in here.

Anyone knows a forum where I can compain about a cereal box I bought? I tried to turn my purchase into profit, but haven't been able to. Die Frosted Flakes! Die!

Huntah, not sure how much weight I give your response based on your unconditional love for Razor in many many many of your posts. Add to the fact that you have your love for Poker cards (ie Razor big part of that industry) in your sig, makes your comment meaningless. (I do collect poker as well and think Razor does nice job with it)
Keep in mind I never ever ever ever ******* about Razor costing me money
My complaints have to do with going against their word (once BIG time when they went against word/promise and mirrored Sig Series with Metal. Second time when the more limited Metal (Prism?) was dabbled with

Can you deny they went against word?

I bought Razor
I still pick up here and there
I wish BG success and had good convo when we met
I still think it was BS what Razor did to the loyal initial collectors/buyers

 

[kentuckyderby]

Anyone knows a forum where I can compain about a cereal box I bought? I tried to turn my purchase into profit, but haven't been able to. Die Frosted Flakes! Die!

Depends, did the company owner tell you the cereal would be worth money in 5 years with an attitude?

(Im not directing this at the OP, but in general)

This right here is a classic example of why prospectors lose money: they put too much faith into what someone says instead of doing the thinking for themselves

If I told you that I had a bridge in Phoenix to sell you, would you buy it without doing some research first? Same with buying a car. Do you walk into the car dealership and believe everything the salesman tells you?

I doubt it.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Now, that is not to say Razor didnt do shady things, but to blame them for your loss/unwise prospecting isnt fair.

People make promises all the time, and if Razor kept saying "we wont release any more like this, we promise", after the second time being let down, why did you keep buying? Didnt you see the writing on the wall with 2 previous examples? A company will do whatever is in it's best interests to make money and profit. If a sig series type brand sells well, why do you think they'd stop making it?

Once again, not condoning Razor's business practices but sometimes looking in the mirror is a tough pill to swallow.

Valid point but I guess some (like me for example) beat a dead horse after they read earlier posts about how Razor did nothing wrong
They did. They make a promise. They admitted how breaking that promise would bascially be a dick move. They went ahead and broke promise
It's the unconditional love (those that don't see the broken promise OR those that say "great break, you'll get your money back on that $225 break of the vintage when completed auctions show it = a 38.50 card"
That's where some so called haters feel need to chime in.
The unconditional or blind love does it
People obviously have right to buy what they want and if the thrill of the break is part of the loss income equation, so be it. But with that being said, people also have a right to call a spade a spade

Nothing I said ever was a lie in my statements
Many of the other posts by guys like jeff N, NYC, one of the Seans = factual too
Sure some might be extreme but they are valid