Leaf is back!

[kentuckyderby]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

SLY, it might not be loss income than turned some off
Some that are "off" never even bought
Some might base it on principle

 

[kentuckyderby]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

And you believe everything that is told to you, especially from someone who is trying to make a buck? If you think everyone in the business world is 100% good...then you've got another thing coming.

And how did he ruin the value of his cards? Was it any different than Topps delivering new Bowman products every year (Originals, Platinum, etc.) Wouldn't those new products continue to ruin the value of regular Bowman/Draft/Chrome? No...what ruined the value was that Razor was not one of the "Big 3" card companies and they were unlicensed products. Yet people bought into it...

In the promise BG even admitted it would be a dick move and would hurt the value if he mirrored the sig series

you are right, people bought into it and those who were skeptical were often given a tongue lashing for making such a prediction

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I find it odd that a person like BG would be allowed on here to pimp their product.

It's like running a halfway house for crack addicts and inviting a crack dealer to come over for lunch... there is no upside.

Had BG NOT been allowed on here this thread would not be nearly as long and people would not be nearly as pissed.

Just out of curiosity, why should a card company (or anyone for that matter) not be allowed on a PUBLIC message board to promote their product? Especially if their product pertains directly to what the message board is about??

Is the posting of sell sheets not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's by the company or a third-party. Are box breaks not "pimping" a product? Who cares if it's opened by the company or a third party.

This is a PUBLIC message board. Topps, Panini, Upper Deck and ITG I'm sure would be more than welcome to come here and discuss their products...but they choose not to.

If people got over their blaming of Razor for losing money and realize that THEY made bad decisions in their prospecting, then these threads wouldn't be such a big deal. Anyone who seriously thought they could make money on a non-Big 3 company is a fool and has no one to blame but themselves. They bought into the hype of someone who promotes his own product...I mean, I suppose how dare he be proud of something he was putting out. Then this person starts doing things he thinks could improve his product and is bashed again for people's past losses. Too many prospectors think they are the masters of the hobby...forgetting that at the end of the day, and to probably MAJORITY of the people out there, this is still just that...a hobby. You want to make it more...then that is YOUR problem, not someone elses when you lose.

While I agree with you that there should be, and is, nothing against Gray "pimping" his products on these boards, you clearly missed the major point and that is:

Nobody is complaining that they lost money because of poor prospecting; what they are complaining about and angry with is the fact that Gray kept reneging on his promises and ruined the value of his cards by consistently changing "the plan."

And you believe everything that is told to you, especially from someone who is trying to make a buck? If you think everyone in the business world is 100% good...then you've got another thing coming.

And how did he ruin the value of his cards? Was it any different than Topps delivering new Bowman products every year (Originals, Platinum, etc.) Wouldn't those new products continue to ruin the value of regular Bowman/Draft/Chrome? No...what ruined the value was that Razor was not one of the "Big 3" card companies and they were unlicensed products. Yet people bought into it...

In the promise BG even admitted it would be a dick move and would hurt the value if he mirrored the sig series

you are right, people bought into it and those who were skeptical were often given a tongue lashing for making such a prediction

I was skeptical because their website was less than bare bones.

I think it's ironic that he now has 2 websites to maintain, when he could never maintain the original.

I also think it's hilarious that when you google "leaf cards", the first site that comes up is paniniamerica.com.

 

[PaulKonerkbro]

Can someone summarize what happened in like...5 sentences? I will thank your post in return :lol:

 

[kentuckyderby]

Can someone summarize what happened in like...5 sentences? I will thank your post in return :lol:

Basically Sox won
They are still in 1st

 

[Sean_C]

The funniest thing about the whole Razor situation is that realistically they are exactly the type of thing I would normally collect. I collect rookies and prospects, love limited edition parallels, don't really view exclusives as all that bad a thing, and obviously love autographs. I'm even a guy that liked some of Just's products, and have multiple signed cards from them of "my guys" (Nick Adenhart - R.I.P, Carlos Gonzalez, etc.). I was a guy that loved Classic products back in the day, and am not averse to "buying what I like, hobby be damned".

The problems I have with Razor are as follows:

- they were more concerned with hype than with results. If they just tried to put out a strong product at a fair price, the market would have likely embraced it the way they had Donruss Elite and products like that. Instead, they set their sites on the market leader (Bowman / Topps), tried to beat them at their own game, and lost miserably. You don't get credit spectacular failures, you get ignominy.
- the faux sincerity BG displayed when doing his free market research and advertising (aka posting here), and the fact that far too many sheeple couldn't see through it (don't worry, I has as much scorn for them as I do for him. How some of the people in this hobby haven't bought ocean-side property in Kansas or joined a cult by this point in their lives is beyond me). A salesman is going to do what a salesman is going to do, and I'll give Brian his due that he can be a good one at times. But I have little tolerance for spin in my personal life, and when confronted with it, I don't rest until I destroy it.
- the whole broken promise thing. It may not have affected me personally, since I wasn't buying their garbage in the first place (literally or figuratively), but while I may have had scorn for the sheeple that fell for the song and dance, I do still hate to see people get taken advantage of.

All in all, I'd sum it up this way: They attempted to put on a pair of shoes that were too big for them, then complained that the road was too long for them to walk.

As for the name change (you can try to spin it all you want, but that's all that it is), it will be just the latest in a long line of failures (they can't even produce an honest press release for crying out loud!). It may not be this year, or next, but when the enterprise goes down for the final count, just know there will be a guy in Boston laughing so hard that it might even be heard in Nevada.

Anyone knows a forum where I can compain about a cereal box I bought? I tried to turn my purchase into profit, but haven't been able to. Die Frosted Flakes! Die!

Depends, did the company owner tell you the cereal would be worth money in 5 years with an attitude?

(Im not directing this at the OP, but in general)

This right here is a classic example of why prospectors lose money: they put too much faith into what someone says instead of doing the thinking for themselves

If I told you that I had a bridge in Phoenix to sell you, would you buy it without doing some research first? Same with buying a car. Do you walk into the car dealership and believe everything the salesman tells you?

I doubt it.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Now, that is not to say Razor didnt do shady things, but to blame them for your loss/unwise prospecting isnt fair.

People make promises all the time, and if Razor kept saying "we wont release any more like this, we promise", after the second time being let down, why did you keep buying? Didnt you see the writing on the wall with 2 previous examples? A company will do whatever is in it's best interests to make money and profit. If a sig series type brand sells well, why do you think they'd stop making it?

Once again, not condoning Razor's business practices but sometimes looking in the mirror is a tough pill to swallow.

Valid point but I guess some (like me for example) beat a dead horse after they read earlier posts about how Razor did nothing wrong
They did. They make a promise. They admitted how breaking that promise would bascially be a dick move. They went ahead and broke promise
It's the unconditional love (those that don't see the broken promise OR those that say "great break, you'll get your money back on that $225 break of the vintage when completed auctions show it = a 38.50 card"
That's where some so called haters feel need to chime in.
The unconditional or blind love does it
People obviously have right to buy what they want and if the thrill of the break is part of the loss income equation, so be it. But with that being said, people also have a right to call a spade a spade

Nothing I said ever was a lie in my statements
Many of the other posts by guys like jeff N, NYC, one of the Seans = factual too
Sure some might be extreme but they are valid

 

[ronfromfresno]

Wait, wasn't Leaf only released outside of the US when paired with Donruss in the '80's, like in Canada or something? Maybe Razor is trying the same thing, only in reverse, Leaf in the US and Razor international.

I would like to see the return of Leaf Steel, even if it was a MMA card set.

 

[Watt]

I remember people asking in another thread why the Razor Entertainment website was so out of date and had no real recent information and BG said that they were working on a new one... I guess he wasn't lying.