Leaf Valiant Tracker Thread

[hail2thevictors]

You could buy two for the price you paid for a box.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANNY-MACHA...0687480088?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item2315ac7918

This seller obviously didn't realize how difficult this auto is to pull
if he did he wouldn't have let it sell so cheaply

It sold via auction, which is what the market is paying.

Unfortunately, these stupid SSP's, SP's, don't work. Enough of the gimmicks Leaf.

It does work when the sellers educate their customers of the nuances of their product they're selling - just look at Contenders and Elite autos

Dumping cards (.99 auctions) into eBay without said information is stupid on the sellers part as he is leaving a lot $$ on the table.

I don't think it matters if you list SP-the buyers are going to control the ending price. I do agree listing at auction isn't the best idea, though.

And, I don't see that card being much more than a $34 card or whatever it sold for. I don't think the seller left much on the table IMO.

 

[masonphillip]

Wow, you've got to be kidding.

I don't pull a single Machado in a case, yet there is a plate auto and /5 auto in 1 box. Who is responsible for boxing out this stuff? What a horrendous job.

Pulled a Manny Machado Black 3/5 & Printing Plate from one box this evening

It's a case break, case breaks are gambles. It happens. I broke 4 cases, watched Jim Witmer break 7, felt like the boxes in those 11 were collated very nicely.

Obviously it's a gamble. Go read my thread. I said you win some, you lose some. I obviously lost, pretty bad. Oh well. Just like last year with Bowman Chrome-I learned my lesson the first time. Just like with Leaf-I won't be fooled again.

My problem is coming on here and see issues like mahoodys box getting the 2 Machado's-a plate auto and a /5. I know most of you all won't say a bad thing about BG, but that is a joke right there.

If you learned your lesson breaking cases then....

Every product is going to have some of the hottest boxes once in a while, you can't spread things out perfectly. On several occasions I've pulled Gold Autos and Orange Autos stuck together out of BDP, it happens, its the reality of packing things out.

In regards to saying bad things about Brian, I've been plenty critical of past efforts of his.

 

[Mahoody]

You could buy two for the price you paid for a box.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANNY-MACHA...0687480088?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item2315ac7918

This seller obviously didn't realize how difficult this auto is to pull
if he did he wouldn't have let it sell so cheaply

It sold via auction, which is what the market is paying.

Unfortunately, these stupid SSP's, SP's, don't work. Enough of the gimmicks Leaf.

It does work when the sellers educate their customers of the nuances of their product they're selling - just look at Contenders and Elite autos

Dumping cards (.99 auctions) into eBay without said information is stupid on the sellers part as he is leaving a lot $$ on the table.

I don't think it matters if you list SP-the buyers are going to control the ending price.

And, I don't see that card being much more than a $34 card or whatever it sold for. I don't think the seller left much on the table IMO.

That's where I disagree - There are going to be people putting these sets together and there is a big difference between 350-360 of these cards on the market and the SSPs 110/120 . Set Builders are going to pay to get that elusive card they need to finish off their collection.

 

[Jaypers]

Mahoody -- I sincerely doubt set builders will go for this product. The numbering system on the backs just isn't there - it's all letters.

Additionally, the only way to view the checklist is to find it on Leaf's site, and it isn't even for Valiant - it's for Metal. Unless you're an FCB poster you won't even realize the checklists are identical for both products.

 

[hail2thevictors]

Mahoody -- I sincerely doubt set builders will go for this product. The numbering system on the backs just isn't there - it's all letters.

Additionally, the only way to view the checklist is to find it on Leaf's site, and it isn't even for Valiant - it's for Metal. Unless you're an FCB poster you won't even realize the checklists are identical for both products.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Set collectors, of Leaf Valiant? I don't think that will be a long line at all.

 

[hail2thevictors]

Wow, you've got to be kidding.

I don't pull a single Machado in a case, yet there is a plate auto and /5 auto in 1 box. Who is responsible for boxing out this stuff? What a horrendous job.

Pulled a Manny Machado Black 3/5 & Printing Plate from one box this evening

It's a case break, case breaks are gambles. It happens. I broke 4 cases, watched Jim Witmer break 7, felt like the boxes in those 11 were collated very nicely.

Obviously it's a gamble. Go read my thread. I said you win some, you lose some. I obviously lost, pretty bad. Oh well. Just like last year with Bowman Chrome-I learned my lesson the first time. Just like with Leaf-I won't be fooled again.

My problem is coming on here and see issues like mahoodys box getting the 2 Machado's-a plate auto and a /5. I know most of you all won't say a bad thing about BG, but that is a joke right there.

If you learned your lesson breaking cases then....

Every product is going to have some of the hottest boxes once in a while, you can't spread things out perfectly. On several occasions I've pulled Gold Autos and Orange Autos stuck together out of BDP, it happens, its the reality of packing things out.

In regards to saying bad things about Brian, I've been plenty critical of past efforts of his.

I learned my lesson breaking Bowman Chrome cases last year, for the first time. Won't do it again. This was my first time buying Leaf. Much like BC, I won't be buying again. I gave Valiant a chance, buying in to the value added-well, BG did add value with more autos-but it's still not near enough for me to buy again.

And, just so I got this straight-because Topps has issues with gold/orange autos back to back, it is ok for Leaf to have issues similar to that? Hey, everyone else is doing it....right? Come on.

 

[cgilmo]

that makes no. damn. sense.

 

[masonphillip]

Wow, you've got to be kidding.

I don't pull a single Machado in a case, yet there is a plate auto and /5 auto in 1 box. Who is responsible for boxing out this stuff? What a horrendous job.

[quote="Mahoody":3tov8sua]Pulled a Manny Machado Black 3/5 & Printing Plate from one box this evening

It's a case break, case breaks are gambles. It happens. I broke 4 cases, watched Jim Witmer break 7, felt like the boxes in those 11 were collated very nicely.

Obviously it's a gamble. Go read my thread. I said you win some, you lose some. I obviously lost, pretty bad. Oh well. Just like last year with Bowman Chrome-I learned my lesson the first time. Just like with Leaf-I won't be fooled again.

My problem is coming on here and see issues like mahoodys box getting the 2 Machado's-a plate auto and a /5. I know most of you all won't say a bad thing about BG, but that is a joke right there.

If you learned your lesson breaking cases then....

Every product is going to have some of the hottest boxes once in a while, you can't spread things out perfectly. On several occasions I've pulled Gold Autos and Orange Autos stuck together out of BDP, it happens, its the reality of packing things out.

In regards to saying bad things about Brian, I've been plenty critical of past efforts of his.

I learned my lesson breaking Bowman Chrome cases last year, for the first time. Won't do it again. This was my first time buying Leaf. Much like BC, I won't be buying again. I gave Valiant a chance, buying in to the value added-well, BG did add value with more autos-but it's still not near enough for me to buy again.

And, just so I got this straight-because Topps has issues with gold/orange autos back to back, it is ok for Leaf to have issues similar to that? Hey, everyone else is doing it....right? Come on.[/quote:3tov8sua]

I'm saying it happens once in a while and that's probably never going to change...so your Leaf/Brian related rant about how he loaded this box and pooed in your case is a waste of hot air. Yes I'm exaggerating but that's how you are coming off.

 

[hail2thevictors]

that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

I learned my lesson breaking Bowman Chrome cases last year, for the first time. Won't do it again. This was my first time buying Leaf. Much like BC, I won't be buying again. I gave Valiant a chance, buying in to the value added-well, BG did add value with more autos-but it's still not near enough for me to buy again.

And, just so I got this straight-because Topps has issues with gold/orange autos back to back, it is ok for Leaf to have issues similar to that? Hey, everyone else is doing it....right? Come on.

You've got to be kidding me. You're now swearing off Leaf products because somebody else pulled both a Machado Black and Plate in one box? So what? What should have happened for you to be okay with this?

 

[hail2thevictors]

I learned my lesson breaking Bowman Chrome cases last year, for the first time. Won't do it again. This was my first time buying Leaf. Much like BC, I won't be buying again. I gave Valiant a chance, buying in to the value added-well, BG did add value with more autos-but it's still not near enough for me to buy again.

And, just so I got this straight-because Topps has issues with gold/orange autos back to back, it is ok for Leaf to have issues similar to that? Hey, everyone else is doing it....right? Come on.

You've got to be kidding me. You're now swearing off Leaf products because somebody else pulled both a Machado Black and Plate in one box? So what? What should have happened for you to be okay with this?

Did you read the quoted text from my message?

Why am I not buying Leaf again? Read it. "I gave Valiant a chance, buying in to the value added-well, BG did add value with more autos-but it's still not near enough for me to buy again."

The Machado deal is separate. That was me venting, and yeah it was a bit exaggerated, but it is what it is.

 

[cgilmo]

that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

 

[hail2thevictors]

that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

Come on, man. Look at the checklist. Do I really need to reel off all the $1-$2 autos?

Now, I knew the checklist prior to buying. So that is on me. But this $10 per auto stuff is so exaggerated. The average people are going to get $70 value out of a box, IMO. Maybe not even that. So this idea that putting 10 prospect autos into a $100 box is not the end all, be all.

And with regard to prospect products-I'm going to buy products that give me a good chance of breaking even or making money. Which means I won't be breaking anything, which is fine(this was my first wax break since 2010 BDP). Buying singles is my game. I do think Valiant singles will be a good investment, but obviously not cases or boxes IMO.

 

[masonphillip]

that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

Come on, man. Look at the checklist. Do I really need to reel off all the $1-$2 autos?

Now, I knew the checklist prior to buying. So that is on me. But this $10 per auto stuff is so exaggerated. The average people are going to get $70 value out of a box, IMO. Maybe not even that. So this idea that putting 10 prospect autos into a $100 box is not the end all, be all.

And with regard to prospect products-I'm going to buy products that give me a good chance of breaking even or making money. Which means I won't be breaking anything, which is fine(this was my first wax break since 2010 BDP). Buying singles is my game. I do think Valiant singles will be a good investment, but obviously not cases or boxes IMO.

Buying one case of anything is not going to make you money on a regular basis. The guys who make money breaking (there are few) bust many cases to play the odds in their favor. So with your one crappy case would have been just that, one of many.

In regards to the $1-$2 autos, yeah that's every product including BC and BDP and in the case of Valiant the excitement was related to that fact that you don't get your $1-$2 auto and go home, you have 9 more chances.

 

[JEA2880]

that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

Come on, man. Look at the checklist. Do I really need to reel off all the $1-$2 autos?

Now, I knew the checklist prior to buying. So that is on me. But this $10 per auto stuff is so exaggerated. The average people are going to get $70 value out of a box, IMO. Maybe not even that. So this idea that putting 10 prospect autos into a $100 box is not the end all, be all.

And with regard to prospect products-I'm going to buy products that give me a good chance of breaking even or making money. Which means I won't be breaking anything, which is fine(this was my first wax break since 2010 BDP). Buying singles is my game. I do think Valiant singles will be a good investment, but obviously not cases or boxes IMO.

Buying one case of anything is not going to make you money on a regular basis. The guys who make money breaking (there are few) bust many cases to play the odds in their favor. So with your one crappy case would have been just that, one of many.

In regards to the $1-$2 autos, yeah that's every product including BC and BDP and in the case of Valiant the excitement was related to that fact that you don't get your $1-$2 auto and go home, you have 9 more chances.

This. If breaking wax was always a guaranteed money making operation, everyone would break wax.

 

[hail2thevictors]

that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

Come on, man. Look at the checklist. Do I really need to reel off all the $1-$2 autos?

Now, I knew the checklist prior to buying. So that is on me. But this $10 per auto stuff is so exaggerated. The average people are going to get $70 value out of a box, IMO. Maybe not even that. So this idea that putting 10 prospect autos into a $100 box is not the end all, be all.

And with regard to prospect products-I'm going to buy products that give me a good chance of breaking even or making money. Which means I won't be breaking anything, which is fine(this was my first wax break since 2010 BDP). Buying singles is my game. I do think Valiant singles will be a good investment, but obviously not cases or boxes IMO.

Buying one case of anything is not going to make you money on a regular basis. The guys who make money breaking (there are few) bust many cases to play the odds in their favor. So with your one crappy case would have been just that, one of many.

In regards to the $1-$2 autos, yeah that's every product including BC and BDP and in the case of Valiant the excitement was related to that fact that you don't get your $1-$2 auto and go home, you have 9 more chances.

Well one thing I am not doing is investing into multiple cases of a product that is not proven. Sorry, but that just isn't for me. May be for other people, but not for me.

I took a calculated risk, hoping to hit an Ichiro-or at least a few nicer parallels /25 or less. It was just that, a risk. I lost. Such is life, and such is case busting. I have learned that, for me, prospect products aren't the best to bust. As I mentioned, 2010 Bowman Chrome was a bigtime loser. I busted Elite in 2009 and it was just average. My Valiant break was below average. You make a great point, to insure the best chances, you have to buy multiple cases. I will stick to busting Topps Update each year, which I have cleared nice profits each of the last 2 years from.

Did I get a bit animated about my Valiant experience? Yeah, but hey at least I am willing to concede that.

 

[masonphillip]

[quote="cgilmo":cwldfrjw]that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

Come on, man. Look at the checklist. Do I really need to reel off all the $1-$2 autos?

Now, I knew the checklist prior to buying. So that is on me. But this $10 per auto stuff is so exaggerated. The average people are going to get $70 value out of a box, IMO. Maybe not even that. So this idea that putting 10 prospect autos into a $100 box is not the end all, be all.

And with regard to prospect products-I'm going to buy products that give me a good chance of breaking even or making money. Which means I won't be breaking anything, which is fine(this was my first wax break since 2010 BDP). Buying singles is my game. I do think Valiant singles will be a good investment, but obviously not cases or boxes IMO.

Buying one case of anything is not going to make you money on a regular basis. The guys who make money breaking (there are few) bust many cases to play the odds in their favor. So with your one crappy case would have been just that, one of many.

In regards to the $1-$2 autos, yeah that's every product including BC and BDP and in the case of Valiant the excitement was related to that fact that you don't get your $1-$2 auto and go home, you have 9 more chances.

Well one thing I am not doing is investing into multiple cases of a product that is not proven. Sorry, but that just isn't for me. May be for other people, but not for me.

I took a calculated risk, hoping to hit an Ichiro-or at least a few nicer parallels /25 or less. It was just that, a risk. I lost. Such is life, and such is case busting. I have learned that, for me, prospect products aren't the best to bust. As I mentioned, 2010 Bowman Chrome was a bigtime loser. I busted Elite in 2009 and it was just average. My Valiant break was below average. You make a great point, to insure the best chances, you have to buy multiple cases. I will stick to busting Topps Update each year, which I have cleared nice profits each of the last 2 years from.

Did I get a bit animated about my Valiant experience? Yeah, but hey at least I am willing to concede that.[/quote:cwldfrjw]

Not to parse words but it is all in your definition of "calculated risk."

First, every person who ever buys any card takes a calculated risk - the question is what goes into the calculation. For you, unproven product = increased risk, for me one case = increased risk. We each made our decisions and we each bore our share of risk.

All I am saying is that the case breakers who regularly make money tend towards weighting the # of cases higher as it relates to their calculation and I follow their lead.

Anyway, I think this horse is dead.

 

[hail2thevictors]

[quote="hail2thevictors":3sbt6qwh][quote="cgilmo":3sbt6qwh]that makes no. damn. sense.

What makes no sense?

YOU!

You do not make any sense. I know I get accused of trumpeting leaf around here but damn man, 10 autos per box with the best prospects from this past draft at around a $100 price tag.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you probably just shouldn't buy prospect products.

Come on, man. Look at the checklist. Do I really need to reel off all the $1-$2 autos?

Now, I knew the checklist prior to buying. So that is on me. But this $10 per auto stuff is so exaggerated. The average people are going to get $70 value out of a box, IMO. Maybe not even that. So this idea that putting 10 prospect autos into a $100 box is not the end all, be all.

And with regard to prospect products-I'm going to buy products that give me a good chance of breaking even or making money. Which means I won't be breaking anything, which is fine(this was my first wax break since 2010 BDP). Buying singles is my game. I do think Valiant singles will be a good investment, but obviously not cases or boxes IMO.

Buying one case of anything is not going to make you money on a regular basis. The guys who make money breaking (there are few) bust many cases to play the odds in their favor. So with your one crappy case would have been just that, one of many.

In regards to the $1-$2 autos, yeah that's every product including BC and BDP and in the case of Valiant the excitement was related to that fact that you don't get your $1-$2 auto and go home, you have 9 more chances.

Well one thing I am not doing is investing into multiple cases of a product that is not proven. Sorry, but that just isn't for me. May be for other people, but not for me.

I took a calculated risk, hoping to hit an Ichiro-or at least a few nicer parallels /25 or less. It was just that, a risk. I lost. Such is life, and such is case busting. I have learned that, for me, prospect products aren't the best to bust. As I mentioned, 2010 Bowman Chrome was a bigtime loser. I busted Elite in 2009 and it was just average. My Valiant break was below average. You make a great point, to insure the best chances, you have to buy multiple cases. I will stick to busting Topps Update each year, which I have cleared nice profits each of the last 2 years from.

Did I get a bit animated about my Valiant experience? Yeah, but hey at least I am willing to concede that.[/quote:3sbt6qwh]

Not to parse words but it is all in your definition of "calculated risk."

First, every person who ever buys any card takes a calculated risk - the question is what goes into the calculation. For you, unproven product = increased risk, for me one case = increased risk. We each made our decisions and we each bore our share of risk.

All I am saying is that the case breakers who regularly make money tend towards weighting the # of cases higher as it relates to their calculation and I follow their lead.

Anyway, I think this horse is dead.[/quote:3sbt6qwh]
I never disagreed with your 1 case=risk assessment. I am fully aware of that risk. However, currently, it isn't wise for me to buy 4, 5 or more cases-so I had to stick with one. I took a risk, and lost. And as I said, it was calculated. I wasn't touching this before the added autos, and with the 1:3 case news about Ichiros. But hey, it happens. And again, I was overly animated after my break-but as I said, at least I'm willing to admit that.

 

[Junior Griffey]

I don't know if you guys are still tracking stuff but the Hak Ju Lee 1/1 red was pulled yesterday on blowout.

 

[Leaf]

Wow, you've got to be kidding.

I don't pull a single Machado in a case, yet there is a plate auto and /5 auto in 1 box. Who is responsible for boxing out this stuff? What a horrendous job.

Pulled a Manny Machado Black 3/5 & Printing Plate from one box this evening

Are you kidding? You have never seen this before?
BG