MUST READ 2001 Albert Pujols Bowman Chrome Rc MUST READ

[matfanofold]

I just have to ask what the meaning behind muchuckwagon's signature is? I guess I dont get it, but maybe there is an awesome "GOTCHA AND SHOWED YOU! TAUGHT YOU A MESSAGE BOARD LESSON!" moment attached to it?

I agree, I would like to know also!

However, I fail to see how a kid holding a cute puppy equates to "something you would rather not have the public dig up". Whats wrong with that pic?

 

[predatorkj]

I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.


Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.


This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

You post this on a message board where we discuss things and tell us not to debate it?I understand your point and its a pretty good one but why the hell can't we discuss it?

My point is I'm not going to answer ? like:

How do you know?

Give me proof?

Who told you?

I know what I know & I'm sharing info with people on here so they are aware of this. I'M not debating it becuase I know its true. So discuss all you want I have no problem with that but I wont get brought into a message board joust on this topic. Like I said if you doubt me thats fine but you all been warned.

Best regards!

Fair enough hoss but hey...if you bring something to the table...it never hurts to be able to back it up where people have a reason to believe you.Since I have heard about Burge and some of the crap he pulls...its already semi believable.But a little evidence on your part would only strengthen the case.


But here is the kicker.If you know so much and you are pissed about it then why don't you do something about it?Call the FBI.I mean..with all the people who say Burge does this and Burge does that...you'd figure somebody would say something or make a call by now.Supposedly, if most of if not all of the stories are to be believed, the guy has ripped people off for thousands and thousands of dollars.Don't you think the FBI might care a little bit about it?

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

It kind of sounds like that is what Burge did didnt he?????

No, from reading other boards it sounds like he removed the original autograph due to the poor quality and simply signed the card himself. True or not....I have no idea.

That is what I thought at first also, must have misread something when I was researching it all again.....either rate, this is nothing new nor should it surprise anyone...this same discussion was hashed on the old BMB...


TK

 

[MartinFFcollector]

From another board- (says autos and #'s are being re-done)


http://cgi.ebay.com/SGC-96-ALBERT-P...ards?hash=item4ceaa01f81&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This exact Pujols card was sold RAW by wolverine24 on Ebay earlier this year. When he sold it RAW, it was #1/500, and you could tell that serial numbering was altered, because it was suppose to be 001/500, not 1/500. Also, the numbering style did not match the handwriting on the unaltered examples that have been on Ebay, and the one I received directly from Topps in 2002. This is just part of the story, because the Pujols signature on that card IS NOT legit/authentic either. It is a forgery.

Well, it has shown back up on Ebay, now it's #442/500, not #1/500, with the same forged Pujols signature that it originally had when it was sold by wolverine24. But.... this time it's slabbed and graded by SGC as a MINT 9. This card has obviously been worked all the way around, and for SGC to not catch any of it, is really concerning.. I'm not accusing apm-cards as the alterer of the serial number after it left wolverine24, but I am saying that someone clearly done more altering of the card after the sale from wolverine24, and before it was slabbed by SGC.

 

[BigAppleJak]

Oh snap, I think i have the real 442 at home, i better check later!

 

[Gellman]

Regardless of the past reputation of the OP, he has provided some valuable info here with the sole purpose of informing those of us that something like this is possible. Even though he may have questionable methods, the idea itself has merit. Burge is a ******* ****** who should be in prison for the money he has stolen alone. If this adds to the case, which the post on SGC seems to do, it bears repeating.

The bottom line is that our only defense against this **** is through information. At the very least this should make you think twice before buying without researching first. Thats all it should be taken as.

 

[mchenrycards]

All this crap makes me so happy that I collect a set that does not have a huge collector following in a grade that pretty much nobody cares all that much about. I long ago gave up this autograph and rookie stuff and enjoy myself so much collecting the items that make me happy. NO worrying about a card that I just paid huge money for (which does not happen) coming back as a fake autograph.

This type of crap keeps happening it will do nothing but drive down the value of the Pujols rookie and drive up the value of the other non-autographed Pujols rookies. Of course it will also turn off another huge chunk of the sportscard collecting population and put another black mark on this hobby. This crap really is getting old. I will catch hell for this but the only way to discourage these types of people is to remove the incentive to provide fake auto's and tamper with these cards.....The values need to totally drop out of the card market and these guys will run away like rats on a sinking ship. Then we can get back to it being a hobby...but we all know that will never happen

 

[goldenegg1]

I can't say it any clearer or more direct, if you have proof, contact authorities!!!!!!!
It's not that hard folks, if you have the proof turn it over! The Feds would love to get their hands on internet fraud! There is a lot of money involved here, so I am sure they would investigate this DB! Quit pissing back and forth and do something about it!

 

[Fandruw25]

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

You post this on a message board where we discuss things and tell us not to debate it?I understand your point and its a pretty good one but why the hell can't we discuss it?

My point is I'm not going to answer ? like:

How do you know?

Give me proof?

Who told you?

I know what I know & I'm sharing info with people on here so they are aware of this. I'M not debating it becuase I know its true. So discuss all you want I have no problem with that but I wont get brought into a message board joust on this topic. Like I said if you doubt me thats fine but you all been warned.

Best regards!

Fair enough hoss but hey...if you bring something to the table...it never hurts to be able to back it up where people have a reason to believe you.Since I have heard about Burge and some of the crap he pulls...its already semi believable.But a little evidence on your part would only strengthen the case.


But here is the kicker.If you know so much and you are pissed about it then why don't you do something about it?Call the FBI.I mean..with all the people who say Burge does this and Burge does that...you'd figure somebody would say something or make a call by now.Supposedly, if most of if not all of the stories are to be believed, the guy has ripped people off for thousands and thousands of dollars.Don't you think the FBI might care a little bit about it?

Assuming this is the same name from the guy on beckett then he has lots of friends at BGS. I remember him posting/bragging about his friends in the grading dept numerous times until someone finally called him out.

 

[jeff550]

I can't say it any clearer or more direct, if you have proof, contact authorities!!!!!!!
It's not that hard folks, if you have the proof turn it over! The Feds would love to get their hands on internet fraud! There is a lot of money involved here, so I am sure they would investigate this DB! Quit pissing back and forth and do something about it!

i would but my dad wont let me and i am not old enough

 

[Austin]

All this crap makes me so happy that I collect a set that does not have a huge collector following in a grade that pretty much nobody cares all that much about. I long ago gave up this autograph and rookie stuff and enjoy myself so much collecting the items that make me happy. NO worrying about a card that I just paid huge money for (which does not happen) coming back as a fake autograph.

This type of crap keeps happening it will do nothing but drive down the value of the Pujols rookie and drive up the value of the other non-autographed Pujols rookies. Of course it will also turn off another huge chunk of the sportscard collecting population and put another black mark on this hobby. This crap really is getting old. I will catch hell for this but the only way to discourage these types of people is to remove the incentive to provide fake auto's and tamper with these cards.....The values need to totally drop out of the card market and these guys will run away like rats on a sinking ship. Then we can get back to it being a hobby...but we all know that will never happen

Great post and I feel the same way.
I build complete sets, collect vintage in low-mid grades, and a couple of my favorite players, so I don't worry about most of the scandalous activity since it doesn't affect me.
I also wish the values of today's high-end cards would drop out so this would become a hobby again like the good ol' days.
There's just too much greed, and having to worry if a card, patch or autograph is authentic is ridiculous.

 

[beberly]

[quote="Jeff N.":2qklxy0m]Ah, well, if SGC says it, it's GOT to be true.

By the way, the proper spelling is counterfeit, not counterfiet.

As for not proving anything, why did you bother to scan your very photoshoppable W-2?

I know you have some beef with the OP, but I really don't understand what you are trying to do here? From what I have the seen the OP has never posted anything that was proven inaccurate, and it seems pretty clear that this, like his other posts, contain useful information, information that many would want to have. If you could show he was simply "crying wolf" that would be one thing, but it seems pretty clear that he's right about the Pujols's. (Same about the Jeter Auto's which he has posted about which all look like pretty good fakes and while a discerning collector might tell the difference, many wouldn't.

SGC may be respected by vintage folk - the vintage I've had, I've had graded by PSA - but I lump them in with PRO and USA. If BGS or PSA came on and discussed it, it would have more credibility.

Jeff can you just stop because right not any creditbility you had is gone.

Your comparing Sgc to Pro?? Again why you can't even post info without an idiot chiming in.

Get lost because now what ever you say cant even be taken seriously. You have nothing to bring to table except for being a troll.

Go find another hobby you know something about. Maybe a proof reader?

See, now I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and even wanted to have your story confirmed by the powers that be at SGC. I have had many issues with you in the past but have laid off of you but calling Jeff a troll is like the pot calling the kettle black. I think you would do better to stick to what you know and not make personal attacks because it lessens your credibility as well.

I never go on other peoples post & flame them. NEVER! I'm sorry but its the same people who have no idea whats going on that like to come post negative things.

Enough is enough I share a lot of info on these boards that 99% of you will never hear about the hobby. For that I have to take abuse from mostly little kids. I get emails from people often thanking me for my posts.

So its simple if you dont like me or my posts dont read them

Or better yet when you see me at a show be a man & come up to me. I would love to see your tone then.

Best regards![/quote:2qklxy0m]

 

[matchpenalty]

So then the card itself is legit, just that these clowns are buying them up and redoing the auto in bold ink. Instead of the normal bubble crap autos that are normal for this card?

 

[sportscardtheory]

There are a LOT of people acting like real ********** in this thread... a LOT. The OP is giving info as he knows it, and people are acting like idiots about it. I have never seen such unwarranted hate thrown someone's way for basically no reason. Why are people crying for the OP to "go to the authorities" and not post the info here? Are you F-ING kidding??? This is a freaking message board! Have you all forgot that??? And people giving the OP flack over his eBay prices? REALLY??? Mind your own f-ing business. You people are LAME.

 

[goldenegg1]

There are a LOT of people acting like real ********** in this thread... a LOT. The OP is giving info as he knows it, and people are acting like idiots about it. I have never seen such unwarranted hate thrown someone's way for basically no reason. Why are people crying for the OP to "go to the authorities" and not post the info here? Are you F-ING kidding??? This is a freaking message board! Have you all forgot that??? And people giving the OP flack over his eBay prices? REALLY??? Mind your own f-ing business. You people are LAME.

I have said numerous times in this thread for those people with information to go to the authorities, so if that makes me a db, so be it.
I've said it on numerous threads where people want to uncover Shoelessjoe and his numerous names etc. I have no problem with them posting here, but if you have the time to post here and you have taken the time to investigate it, why not go to the authorities? I was saying, why argue on a message board where no one has the authority to do anything about it. I have no problem with the OP bringing this info to our attention, I just wish he would hand his information over to someone who can do something about it. I wish everyone would turn information over,it's the only way to stop this guy.

 

[predatorkj]

There are a LOT of people acting like real ********** in this thread... a LOT. The OP is giving info as he knows it, and people are acting like idiots about it. I have never seen such unwarranted hate thrown someone's way for basically no reason. Why are people crying for the OP to "go to the authorities" and not post the info here? Are you F-ING kidding??? This is a freaking message board! Have you all forgot that??? And people giving the OP flack over his eBay prices? REALLY??? Mind your own f-ing business. You people are LAME.

I have said numerous times in this thread for those people with information to go to the authorities, so if that makes me a db, so be it.
I've said it on numerous threads where people want to uncover Shoelessjoe and his numerous names etc. I have no problem with them posting here, but if you have the time to post here and you have taken the time to investigate it, why not go to the authorities? I was saying, why argue on a message board where no one has the authority to do anything about it. I have no problem with the OP bringing this info to our attention, I just wish he would hand his information over to someone who can do something about it. I wish everyone would turn information over,it's the only way to stop this guy.

Once again sportscardtheory strikes at us with his out of context ramblings.

Well...I guess they were kind of in context.I think you misunderstood the gist of what people are saying though.First of all...what would you do if I told you that I knew that most hobby shop dealers searched their packs?You'd most likely, in your head, say to yourself "Well...that's possible.".But then your next question would be "Where is your evidence?".And then I tell you "Its not open for debate!".So now I have told you something, I have not shown any proof, and I have told you my word should be good enough for you and not to worry yourself over the details.Yeah...that doesn't work....

The point goldenegg is trying to make, as well as the point I made, is if you know this and you are trying to act all hardcore about it, then do something dammitt!Call the FBI.I still,not once, have ever seen any of you who supposedly know all of this crap for a "fact" tell any authorities.I have also never seen or heard any of you argue that it would be a bad idea to do so.

So what we have is this:Someone who shares their "facts" and then says its not open for debate.Yet they feel compelled to tell us.But not compelled to do anything.In fact we have a whole damn message board full of people who supposedly "know" these "facts" and none of them will make the call.Now I have personally never dealt with Burge and I won't be doing so either.But if you know of something you'd like to have stopped...what gets results?Telling people on a message board or telling the cops or FBI?I admit that telling people here is a good thing.But as strongly as a lot of you feel about it...its kind of funny that none of you will lift a finger to try to stop it.None.

I also don't buy his line about not wanting to debate with members.You can't just run your mouth and not prove it or back it up.Well...I guess you can but you will be called out on it.To get mad about that or to feel its wrong is just dumb.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Once again sportscardtheory strikes at us with his out of context ramblings.

Well...I guess they were kind of in context.I think you misunderstood the gist of what people are saying though.First of all...what would you do if I told you that I knew that most hobby shop dealers searched their packs?You'd most likely, in your head, say to yourself "Well...that's possible.".But then your next question would be "Where is your evidence?".And then I tell you "Its not open for debate!".So now I have told you something, I have not shown any proof, and I have told you my word should be good enough for you and not to worry yourself over the details.Yeah...that doesn't work....

The point goldenegg is trying to make, as well as the point I made, is if you know this and you are trying to act all hardcore about it, then do something dammitt!Call the FBI.I still,not once, have ever seen any of you who supposedly know all of this crap for a "fact" tell any authorities.I have also never seen or heard any of you argue that it would be a bad idea to do so.

So what we have is this:Someone who shares their "facts" and then says its not open for debate.Yet they feel compelled to tell us.But not compelled to do anything.In fact we have a whole damn message board full of people who supposedly "know" these "facts" and none of them will make the call.Now I have personally never dealt with Burge and I won't be doing so either.But if you know of something you'd like to have stopped...what gets results?Telling people on a message board or telling the cops or FBI?I admit that telling people here is a good thing.But as strongly as a lot of you feel about it...its kind of funny that none of you will lift a finger to try to stop it.None.

I also don't buy his line about not wanting to debate with members.You can't just run your mouth and not prove it or back it up.Well...I guess you can but you will be called out on it.To get mad about that or to feel its wrong is just dumb.

Ramblings? I see a poster getting attacked for no reason and said something about it.. and I'm rambling. Why the heck are you even being aggressive with the OP about it? It's not his job to go to the authorities. This is a message board, not the FBI hotline. He is here telling us or reiterating what he and others know. BIG DEAL. Why are you and others acting like little kids about it? Oh, "Show us the proof!" "Your eBay prices are too high!" Don't tell us, tell the police!" "Prove that you worked for ***!" Leave the guy alone already. Read through this thread and tell me a bunch of people don't sound like babies. There is NO reason to attack the OP and I will "ramble" about it if I want.

 

[predatorkj]

Once again sportscardtheory strikes at us with his out of context ramblings.

Well...I guess they were kind of in context.I think you misunderstood the gist of what people are saying though.First of all...what would you do if I told you that I knew that most hobby shop dealers searched their packs?You'd most likely, in your head, say to yourself "Well...that's possible.".But then your next question would be "Where is your evidence?".And then I tell you "Its not open for debate!".So now I have told you something, I have not shown any proof, and I have told you my word should be good enough for you and not to worry yourself over the details.Yeah...that doesn't work....

The point goldenegg is trying to make, as well as the point I made, is if you know this and you are trying to act all hardcore about it, then do something dammitt!Call the FBI.I still,not once, have ever seen any of you who supposedly know all of this crap for a "fact" tell any authorities.I have also never seen or heard any of you argue that it would be a bad idea to do so.

So what we have is this:Someone who shares their "facts" and then says its not open for debate.Yet they feel compelled to tell us.But not compelled to do anything.In fact we have a whole damn message board full of people who supposedly "know" these "facts" and none of them will make the call.Now I have personally never dealt with Burge and I won't be doing so either.But if you know of something you'd like to have stopped...what gets results?Telling people on a message board or telling the cops or FBI?I admit that telling people here is a good thing.But as strongly as a lot of you feel about it...its kind of funny that none of you will lift a finger to try to stop it.None.

I also don't buy his line about not wanting to debate with members.You can't just run your mouth and not prove it or back it up.Well...I guess you can but you will be called out on it.To get mad about that or to feel its wrong is just dumb.

Ramblings? I see a poster getting attacked for no reason and said something about it.. and I'm rambling. Why the heck are you even being aggressive with the OP about it? It's not his job to go to the authorities. This is a message board, not the FBI hotline. He is here telling us or reiterating what he and others know. BIG DEAL. Why are you and others acting like little kids about it? Oh, "Show us the proof!" "Your eBay prices are too high!" Don't tell us, tell the police!" "Prove that you worked for ***!" Leave the guy alone already. Read through this thread and tell me a bunch of people don't sound like babies. There is NO reason to attack the OP and I will "ramble" about it if I want.

It would be the equivalent of me coming on here and telling you my wife is cheating on me but when people ask how I know it ,I won't tell them.Then to top it off...instead of leaving her(which is what I would do by the way) I stay with her.What kind of sense does that make?Wouldn't you think I was stupid or at the very least very misguided?

 

[MartinFFcollector]

There are a LOT of people acting like real ********** in this thread... a LOT. The OP is giving info as he knows it, and people are acting like idiots about it. I have never seen such unwarranted hate thrown someone's way for basically no reason. Why are people crying for the OP to "go to the authorities" and not post the info here? Are you F-ING kidding??? This is a freaking message board! Have you all forgot that??? And people giving the OP flack over his eBay prices? REALLY??? Mind your own f-ing business. You people are LAME.

I have said numerous times in this thread for those people with information to go to the authorities, so if that makes me a db, so be it.
I've said it on numerous threads where people want to uncover Shoelessjoe and his numerous names etc. I have no problem with them posting here, but if you have the time to post here and you have taken the time to investigate it, why not go to the authorities? I was saying, why argue on a message board where no one has the authority to do anything about it. I have no problem with the OP bringing this info to our attention, I just wish he would hand his information over to someone who can do something about it. I wish everyone would turn information over,it's the only way to stop this guy.

Once again sportscardtheory strikes at us with his out of context ramblings.

Well...I guess they were kind of in context.I think you misunderstood the gist of what people are saying though.First of all...what would you do if I told you that I knew that most hobby shop dealers searched their packs?You'd most likely, in your head, say to yourself "Well...that's possible.".But then your next question would be "Where is your evidence?".And then I tell you "Its not open for debate!".So now I have told you something, I have not shown any proof, and I have told you my word should be good enough for you and not to worry yourself over the details.Yeah...that doesn't work....

The point goldenegg is trying to make, as well as the point I made, is if you know this and you are trying to act all hardcore about it, then do something dammitt!Call the FBI.I still,not once, have ever seen any of you who supposedly know all of this crap for a "fact" tell any authorities.I have also never seen or heard any of you argue that it would be a bad idea to do so.

So what we have is this:Someone who shares their "facts" and then says its not open for debate.Yet they feel compelled to tell us.But not compelled to do anything.In fact we have a whole damn message board full of people who supposedly "know" these "facts" and none of them will make the call.Now I have personally never dealt with Burge and I won't be doing so either.But if you know of something you'd like to have stopped...what gets results?Telling people on a message board or telling the cops or FBI?I admit that telling people here is a good thing.But as strongly as a lot of you feel about it...its kind of funny that none of you will lift a finger to try to stop it.None.

I also don't buy his line about not wanting to debate with members.You can't just run your mouth and not prove it or back it up.Well...I guess you can but you will be called out on it.To get mad about that or to feel its wrong is just dumb.

its kind of funny that none of you will lift a finger to try to stop it.None.

That's not true. While I have not made a huge impact, I have done what I felt was within my capibilities and acted on situations where I felt I had enough proof. I do agree that more should be done by those who have hard evidence and have dealt with these scammers. Luckily I have not had any transactions with them and my only weapon is spreading the word. There has been a few situations where I have stopped a scam but unfortunately feel it was only going to happen again.
I do know of others on other boards who actively pursue and report and dont post their findings for fear of payback. Thanks to those who do or try to make an impact. All knowledge of scammers or anti scammer action taken is benificial IMO.

 

[predatorkj]

its kind of funny that none of you will lift a finger to try to stop it.None.

That's not true. While I have not made a huge impact, I have done what I felt was within my capibilities and acted on situations where I felt I had enough proof. I do agree that more should be done by those who have hard evidence and have dealt with these scammers. Luckily I have not had any transactions with them and my only weapon is spreading the word. There has been a few situations where I have stopped a scam but unfortunately feel it was only going to happen again.
I do know of others on other boards who actively pursue and report and dont post their findings for fear of payback. Thanks to those who do or try to make an impact. All knowledge of scammers or anti scammer action taken is benificial IMO.

My point is that if you haven't dealt with him and actually seen provable evidence...its a moot point.I know a couple of local guys who supposedly forge autos and are very shady.I have heard the same exact story to a T from many different sources.And by "To a T", I mean to a T!To the point of you know its more than likely true since it would be kind of hard for every single person I talk to know the same exact details.Basically these cats are up to no good.Everyone knows it.One of them got busted a while back because somebody took what they knew and reported it and did something about it.And while I have dealt with them once and do not approve of their business practices, I just don't deal with them.I will caution people but I personally have not seen anything of theirs being forged.From what I can tell they are just straight up guys but albeit a little distasteful.So , since I can't prove, personally, anything I have heard, then I don't preach it as the gospel truth.Because I don't have a way to back it up.And naturally people would want to hear my evidence or reason.

Now if you have done things to report people, then kudos to you.But you look at all the people here who have always said this and that about Burge yet none of them do anything about it.So either crap or get off the pot.I don't have any anger or any hatred towards the OP nor do I feel he is necessarily wrong with his info.And I think its a great thing for him to share his info with us.I would be a major ******* to be mad about that.But to sit here and say its not open for debate...then how the hell are we supposed to know he is not just blowing smoke up our ass?Its good to talk about this stuff.It needs to be out there.But like I said...if a lot of people here are extremely knowledgeable on the fake patches or they have seen him forging stuff...why don't you report him?It seems like some of you guys watch him like a hawk.Surely someone has a list of proof.I mean...this is like watching a crime and then just pointing it out to others.If you see a crime going on...normally you call the police.So since he is still out there selling cards it is starting to seem to me like none of you have done a lot and you are merely watching him like a hawk for your own personal entertainment.