NL Cy Young Watch - Cliff Lee 9/26

[schmidtfan20]

Re: NL Cy Young Watch - Halladay and Kershaw 9/25

Halladay with a better outing than Kershaw today. Lee should wrap it up tomorrow.

Kevin

 

[Hallsgator]

Re: NL Cy Young Watch - Halladay and Kershaw 9/25

Kershaw is the best pitcher in baseball and is making 500K. Would love to find out his marginal revenue. Heck, Kemp is a bargain too. The Dodgers HAVE to get steady ownership. Teams don't have the best pitcher and player on their team at one time very often.

 

[tpeichel]

Re: NL Cy Young Watch - Halladay and Kershaw 9/25

Kershaw gets Win #21.
7 1/3, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 6 K

Added Verlanders numbers in for comparison purposes. (He faced three out of the worst 14 A.L. offenses in 6 of his starts.) Overall his numbers are more impressive because he pitches against A.L. teams, so I would disagree that Kershaw has been better.

Kershaw
233 IP, 21 Wins, 2.28 ERA, 54 BB, 248 K, 0.98 WHIP, 2 Shutouts, 5 Complete Games, .208 BAA

Halladay
233 IP, 19 Wins, 2.35 ERA, 35 BB, 221 K, 1.04 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 8 Complete Games, .239 BAA

Verlander
251 IP, 24 Wins, 2.40 ERA, 57 BB, 250 K, 0.92 WHIP, 2 Shutouts, 4 Complete Games, .192 BAA

Lee
226 IP, 16 Wins, 2.42 ERA, 42 BB, 232 K, 1.03 WHIP, 6 Shutouts, 6 Complete Games, .229 BAA

Kennedy
216 IP, 21 Wins, 2.88 ERA, 54 BB, 196 K, 1.09 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 1 Complete Game, .227 BAA

 

[tpeichel]

Re: NL Cy Young Watch - Halladay and Kershaw 9/25

Some other interesting stats.

2011 Pitching WAR
Verlander 8.5
Halladay 7.1
Sabathia 6.9
Cliff Lee 6.8 (one outing left)
Jered Weaver 6.8
Kershaw 6.7

2011 Adjusted ERA+
Verlander 168
Kershaw 163
Cliff Lee 162
Halladay 160
Beckett 158
Weaver 158

2011 DIPS
Halladay 2.41
Kershaw 2.63
Cliff Lee 2.77
Verlander 3.13

 

[tpeichel]

Cliff Lee finishes his season with a nice 6 inning outing and is in line for the win.

6 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 6 K

He could have gone longer, but no need pushing it going into the playoffs.

 

[schmidtfan20]

Lee beating the Braves when Atlanta is playing for their lives clinches it for me. Sorry Clayton.

 

[tpeichel]

Cardinal fans must be a little nervous with Chipper as the go ahead run at the plate.

 

[tpeichel]

Double-play ball, you're welcome Cardinal fans.

 

[dutchj16]

Lee beating the Braves when Atlanta is playing for their lives clinches it for me. Sorry Clayton.

::facepalm::

 

[tpeichel]

And the final numbers:

Kershaw
233 IP, 21 Wins, 2.28 ERA, 54 BB, 248 K, 0.98 WHIP, 2 Shutouts, 5 Complete Games, .208 BAA

Halladay
233 IP, 19 Wins, 2.35 ERA, 35 BB, 220 K, 1.04 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 8 Complete Games, .239 BAA

Lee
232 IP, 17 Wins, 2.40 ERA, 42 BB, 238 K, 1.03 WHIP, 6 Shutouts, 6 Complete Games, .229 BAA

Kennedy
216 IP, 21 Wins, 2.88 ERA, 54 BB, 196 K, 1.09 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 1 Complete Game, .227 BAA


Kershaw, Halladay, and Lee are all deserving. Checked Cliff Lee and only 4 of his starts came against the worst offenses versus 5 for Halladay and 10 for Kershaw.

 

[schmidtfan20]

Gotta be Lee.

 

[tommyd2107]

I can live with Kershaw,Lee or Doc getting it, they are all deserving of the award. Should be a pretty close vote between the 3.

 

[dutchj16]

And the final numbers:

Kershaw
233 IP, 21 Wins, 2.28 ERA, 54 BB, 248 K, 0.98 WHIP, 2 Shutouts, 5 Complete Games, .208 BAA

Halladay
233 IP, 19 Wins, 2.35 ERA, 35 BB, 220 K, 1.04 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 8 Complete Games, .239 BAA

Lee
232 IP, 17 Wins, 2.40 ERA, 42 BB, 238 K, 1.03 WHIP, 6 Shutouts, 6 Complete Games, .229 BAA

Kennedy
216 IP, 21 Wins, 2.88 ERA, 54 BB, 196 K, 1.09 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 1 Complete Game, .227 BAA


Kershaw, Halladay, and Lee are all deserving. Checked Cliff Lee and only 4 of his starts came against the worst offenses versus 5 for Halladay and 10 for Kershaw.

You have to remember though that Kershaw faced Lincecum for 4 of those starts, and yes it's still the Giants offense, but I find it remarkable that Kershaw beat Lincecum all four times. He allowed one earned run in those 4 starts. Lee has had an incredible year though.

 

[Bigfan5]

Gotta be Lee.

Totally agree. In fact I don't think Kershaw should get any votes. If not Lee solo then the entire Phillies staff should share the award.

Totally wrong thread but the Phillies as a team should win the MVP award as well. I'm not sure why other teams/players bother really but I guess they all play just to remind us of how inferior they all are to the mighty Phillies.

PS - If the Fanatic could win some sort of post season award I'd be up for that as well....at the expense of someone from another team of course.

 

[TNP777]

I'm sorry, Greg. I know you just said something that must have been important, but I couldn't stop staring at the Kershaw super.

:shock:

 

[wolfmanalfredo]

Gotta be kershaw, the numbers don't lie.

 

[Zymco]

Gotta be kershaw, the numbers don't lie.

I really don't think its close either. The numbers are right there.

 

[Huffamaniac]

Not a very impressive performance against a team that is struggling. Game set match Kershaw

Lee beating the Braves when Atlanta is playing for their lives clinches it for me. Sorry Clayton.

 

[poppudaimadochi]

Gotta be kershaw, the numbers don't lie.

I really don't think its close either. The numbers are right there.

Agreed, even if Cliff had a fantastic season (who said I was biased :mrgreen: ), Kershaw has a lower ERA/WHIP despite Lee's 6 shutouts. Tells a lot on his consistency.

 

[tpeichel]

And the final numbers:

Kershaw
233 IP, 21 Wins, 2.28 ERA, 54 BB, 248 K, 0.98 WHIP, 2 Shutouts, 5 Complete Games, .208 BAA

Halladay
233 IP, 19 Wins, 2.35 ERA, 35 BB, 220 K, 1.04 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 8 Complete Games, .239 BAA

Lee
232 IP, 17 Wins, 2.40 ERA, 42 BB, 238 K, 1.03 WHIP, 6 Shutouts, 6 Complete Games, .229 BAA

Kennedy
216 IP, 21 Wins, 2.88 ERA, 54 BB, 196 K, 1.09 WHIP, 1 Shutout, 1 Complete Game, .227 BAA


Kershaw, Halladay, and Lee are all deserving. Checked Cliff Lee and only 4 of his starts came against the worst offenses versus 5 for Halladay and 10 for Kershaw.

You have to remember though that Kershaw faced Lincecum for 4 of those starts, and yes it's still the Giants offense, but I find it remarkable that Kershaw beat Lincecum all four times. He allowed one earned run in those 4 starts. Lee has had an incredible year though.

Point taken, but when you're looking at any stat other than wins, it was extremely helpful to face the horrible Giants offense four times.

Cliff Lee would have the same ERA as Kershaw if he gave up 3 fewer earned runs over the course of the season. All I am arguing is that Cliff Lee would have had a better chance to match Kershaws ERA if he had 6 more outings against the same weak offenses that Kershaw pitched against.

Out of 33 starts, Kershaw got to face the four worst offensive teams 10 times.
Out of 32 starts, Cliff Lee only got to face the four worst offensive teams 4 times.

I still think Kershaw wins because Lee and Halladay will split votes, but there are plenty of other stats that show the race is not a simple slam dunk for Kershaw and is actually very tight, especially considering that Kershaw is not going to the playoffs like the other two.

WAR for Pitchers (compares only pitchers)
Halladay 7.1
Kershaw 6.9
Cliff Lee 6.9

WAR for All (compares all players)
Kershaw 7.5
Cliff Lee 7.4
Halladay 6.9

Adjusted ERA+ (adjusted for ballpark)
Halladay 164
Kershaw 163
Cliff Lee 161

WPA (Win Probability Added)
Halladay 4.2
Cliff Lee 4.1
Kershaw 3.8

Shutouts
Cliff Lee 6
Kershaw 2
Halladay 1

Complete Games
Halladay 8
Cliff Lee 6
Kershaw 5

K/BB Ratio
Halladay 6.28
Cliff Lee 5.66
Kershaw 4.59