nomar to the HOF?

[200lbhockeyplayer]

What are the numbers for SS's?... not the history of baseball.

Fair enough...but still not HOF numbers.

Plus, there are intangibles that Nomar simply doesn't have. So he was hurt, blah blah blah. I had high hopes for Nick Neugebauer's 100mph arm too, but he blew that out his rookie season.

Nomar was a 6-time All-Star (but it wasn't fair because he was going against ARod and Jeter...blah blah blah), was top-5 in MVP voting once (#2 in 1998 - his second season), and won the AL Rookie of the Year. That's it.

No World Series titles, no hardware outside of a ROY (joining the likes of Jeff Burroughs) and not a single offensive milestone...even weak ones like 2000 hits or 1000 RBI.

Here is the list of short stops currently in the HOF and their career stats, courtesy of http://www.baseball-almanac.com.

Now, don't get too excited about some of the dead ball era guys and again understand that the position has shifted tremendously in the last decade to a position of far more power than before.

Of that list, the glaring offenders are Ozzie Smith and Phil Rizzuto but Rizzuto's seven rings and Yankee association locked him in and the fans' infatuation with Ozzie Smith's flips and smile got him in.

 

[HPC]

What are the numbers for SS's?... not the history of baseball.

Fair enough...but still not HOF numbers.

Going off that list, Nomar had equal or better numbers than:

Apparicio
Luke Appling
Bancroft
Lou Boudreau (nearly equal)
Joe Cronin
George Davis
Travis Jackson
Jennings
Maranville
Pee Wee Reese
Rizzuto
Sewell
Ozzie
Tinker
Wallace
Ward
Yount

Comparing this chart to Nomar:

-He had more HR's than 18 of the people on the list
-A higher average than 19 on the list
-More RBI than 12 on the list
-A Higher SLG than everyone on the list
-More stolen bases than 6

...the main fault for Nomar was he didnt have alot of hits, which was due to injury.

Im sorry, but after comparing him to this list, I still feel he is HOF worthy as a SS.

I understand the game changed since the days of Joe Cronin, but the numbers dont lie.

Also, and if you take into account something like "well the game was different then", then you have to take into account "So he was hurt, blah blah blah"...since both are pro arguements for their numbers

 

[UMich92]

Thanks for posting the HOF SS numbers. Every time I see those numbers, it reminds me to argue that Alan Trammell belongs in the HOF. Offensively, I think Nomar is very comparable to Barry Larkin and Alan Trammell. Defensively, both Trammell and Larkin were better and have multiple Gold Gloves to Nomar's none. Admittedly I'm a Detroit homer but I rank them as Trammell > Larkin >= Nomar and I believe Trammell will be a Veteran's Committee entrant to the HOF, Larkin might be a HOF, and Nomar won't be.

Alex

 

[Sly]

Ugh, this is a ridiculous conversation...and I like Nomar...but one MAJOR stat will keep him out...

There were only FIVE seasons he played more than 140 games (and only EIGHT where he played more than 100).

Of those eight, six were really good seasons...but six seasons out of 14 played does not make one a HOFer (just ask Don Mattingly...and I am a full-supported of Mattingly NOT being a HOFer).

Yes, barring injuries, Nomar probably would be a HOFer. But he WAS injured and the HOF is not a case of "what-if."

 

[brouthercard]

If Nomar was a Florida Marlin or Pittsburgh Pirate, this wouldn't even be an issue. Heck, if Don Mattingly doesn't deserve to be in the HOF, neither does ramon.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

One thing you are failing to grasp from that list...intangibles.

Each and every one of those player's was considered the best of his era at short-stop. Nomar is not. Could he have been? Sure, but outside of a few years where he was in the debate (along with ARod and Jeter), he wasn't.

 

[HPC]

I definitely understand, and believe the intangibles will keep him out.

But, broader picture, players are voted in based on career numbers, not "he was good only 6 of 14 seasons."

His career numbers are HOF worthy, but its unfortunate that injuries kept him out of the game.

I believe he is HOF worthy, and made an arguement for it, but im also a realist and know that unless something happens, he is not going in for a long time, if ever.

(If Larkin gets in, then there will be a bigger arguement for Nomar at some point)

 

[imac220]

No way he gets in.

 

[xcantgobackx]

Not a chance and I like Nomar (don't tell any of the other Yankee fans I said that.)

I could go into detail, but EVERYONE in this thread (save one) is doing a more than suitable job of explaining why.

It's just not even close.

 

[notjomommasclint]

i figured it would be a no vote but this is a dominating no... now we just need to keep others off of his auctions!

 

[MallCopKJ]

Should be, but he wont.

 

[matfanofold]

Nomar is a lock for No.

And to compare him to Jeter is fruitless. Try to make the compare without using the words "if only' or 'because of', simply put, you can not. The comparison is only valid as a anecdotal foot note to Nomars quality decade, but short lived stint at fame, cut short by injury and lack of sustained production.

 

[MallCopKJ]

Some people on here really sound silly. Lets not try to say Nomar didnt have GREAT years. He had 7 fantastic seasons and his 2000 season was amazing. Ok, he may not make the Hall of Fame but people shouldnt go overboard and call his career laughable or say its a joke to compare him to Jeter. In the seasons before he got hurt it wasnt laughable to compare him to ANYONE.

 

[HPC]

Some people on here really sound silly. Lets not try to say Nomar didnt have GREAT years. He had 7 fantastic seasons and his 2000 season was amazing. Ok, he may not make the Hall of Fame but people shouldnt go overboard and call his career laughable or say its a joke to compare him to Jeter. In the seasons before he got hurt it wasnt laughable to compare him to ANYONE.

Thank you!

Im really surprised by the amount of people who are saying that comparing him to jeter is laughable, when their stats are nearly identical

 

[Therion]

You can't compare Nomar to Jeter and be honest. Why? Because Jeter has maintained those numbers for 700 more games so far. That is almost four and a half more seasons.

That amounts to 3000 more at bats.

Nomar was good. He wasn't HOF worthy.

 

[HPC]

You can't compare Nomar to Jeter and be honest. Why? Because Jeter has maintained those numbers for 700 more games so far. That is almost four and a half more seasons.

That amounts to 3000 more at bats.

Nomar was good. He wasn't HOF worthy.

The arguement can also be made Nomar had similar stats in less games than it took Jeter (aside from hits)

 

[Therion]

You can't compare Nomar to Jeter and be honest. Why? Because Jeter has maintained those numbers for 700 more games so far. That is almost four and a half more seasons.

That amounts to 3000 more at bats.

Nomar was good. He wasn't HOF worthy.

The arguement can also be made Nomar had similar stats in less games than it took Jeter (aside from hits)

Stats, as a rule, are less valid in smaller numbers. So that argument would lack any real depth. One could argue that Hal McRae is comparable to Hank Aaron, that doesn't mean it would have any truth to it.

 

[MallCopKJ]

You can't compare Nomar to Jeter and be honest. Why? Because Jeter has maintained those numbers for 700 more games so far. That is almost four and a half more seasons.

That amounts to 3000 more at bats.

Nomar was good. He wasn't HOF worthy.

The arguement can also be made Nomar had similar stats in less games than it took Jeter (aside from hits)

Stats, as a rule, are less valid in smaller numbers. So that argument would lack any real depth. One could argue that Hal McRae is comparable to Hank Aaron, that doesn't mean it would have any truth to it.

Whats a small number about 14 years in the Major Leagues?

 

[Therion]

You can't compare Nomar to Jeter and be honest. Why? Because Jeter has maintained those numbers for 700 more games so far. That is almost four and a half more seasons.

That amounts to 3000 more at bats.

Nomar was good. He wasn't HOF worthy.

The arguement can also be made Nomar had similar stats in less games than it took Jeter (aside from hits)

Stats, as a rule, are less valid in smaller numbers. So that argument would lack any real depth. One could argue that Hal McRae is comparable to Hank Aaron, that doesn't mean it would have any truth to it.

Whats a small number about 14 years in the Major Leagues?

:lol:

Seriously? You went with number of years instead of games or at bats? Were you dropped on your head as a child?

 

[MallCopKJ]

You can't compare Nomar to Jeter and be honest. Why? Because Jeter has maintained those numbers for 700 more games so far. That is almost four and a half more seasons.

That amounts to 3000 more at bats.

Nomar was good. He wasn't HOF worthy.

The arguement can also be made Nomar had similar stats in less games than it took Jeter (aside from hits)

Stats, as a rule, are less valid in smaller numbers. So that argument would lack any real depth. One could argue that Hal McRae is comparable to Hank Aaron, that doesn't mean it would have any truth to it.

Whats a small number about 14 years in the Major Leagues?

:lol:

Seriously? You went with number of years instead of games or at bats? Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Just trying to figure out what you meant by that comment. Is it not more significant that Nomar has LESS ab's and games and still is almost identical in every category as Jeter outside of hits? Thats just silly if you dont think it is.