Ok guys, I need some assistance with 2004 Prime Cuts

[daveyou]

morning peeps

here's the card i want

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160697090060?ss ... 500wt_1156" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

damn. auto looks def legit as far as i can tell from cross referencing and such

however, something's eating at me about this one..

1) aren't these supposed to be pre slabbed from the box?

2) 2004 prime cut honus wagner is card #40 on all. these are listed under beckett checklist below:

2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline #40 Honus Wagner SER 50
2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline Century Gold #40 Honus Wagner SER 10
2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline Century Platinum #40 Honus Wagner SER 1
2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline Century Silver #40 Honus Wagner SER 25
2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline Signature Century Gold #40 Honus Wagner/1 AU SER 1
2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline Signature Century Platinum #40 Honus Wagner AU SER 1
2004 Prime Cuts II Timeline Signature Century Silver #40 Honus Wagner/1 AU SER 1

3) the card on ebay number is #C5. I cannot find ANYTHING with honus / prime cuts / C5 on the checklist

4) all 2004 prime cuts autos and cut autos have "AUTHENTIC SIGNATURE" stamped on the front. this one does not

5) from the small sample of images of cut autos that i have seen from 2004 prime cuts, the window die cut looks totally different than the one on ebay

If there is anything that i should know about this one? I was really interested in this one but the more i research, i am coming up short on whether this is a legit copy or not but again, I'm no expert in 2004 prime cuts. never broke a box of this back in the days..but maybe some of you have some cards from this set, more knowledge, etc

any input would be appreciated

thanks

dave

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

Looks like an aftermarket. ::facepalm::

Design is the regular Timeline insert.
Where the cut is, is where the dates go...

Very suspicious.

Need more info........

More I look at it, the more it looks like a custom job.
No serial numbering, or even mention of it?????

 

[boomo]

DAVE, CARDS were slabbed but not graded, lots of people broke them out for whatever their reasons were.
the # 1 thing that worries me here is the guy does not list the serial #. did u email him and ask for it? other thing
is, the timeline was an insert set if i remember right. I dont see C5 anywhere so ill assume you did email him.
looking at his other items i see a couple questionable items, just me, but im steering clear and looking for a better one.

 

[daveyou]

joe, matt, that was the first i've asked. i asked for a scan of the back of the card which he sent over. very blurry but there were no serial # on the back and nothing mentioned about it being autographed or even mentioning "authentic signature" front or back

the cut autos i have seen from 04 prime cuts, the window die cut weren't perfectly rectangular but on the left/right sides had an inverted triangular design

ill post the pic of the back of the card soon.

dave

 

[walter55]

joe, matt, that was the first i've asked. i asked for a scan of the back of the card which he sent over. very blurry but there were no serial # on the back and nothing mentioned about it being autographed or even mentioning "authentic signature" front or back

the cut autos i have seen from 04 prime cuts, the window die cut weren't perfectly rectangular but on the left/right sides had an inverted triangular design

ill post the pic of the back of the card soon.

dave

I was just getting ready to mention about the window die cut being different. Seems to me like it is pretty much for sure not pack issued but a custom auto.

 

[metallicalex777]

Hey Dave! Don't know if this helps but here is some comparison without knowledge:

Here is a Pee Wee Reese slabbed auto with the sticker...notice how the die cut window is framed around the cut for the "two tone" card color similar to the Wagner:

Here is a Lou Boudreau cut auto with the same die cut as your Wagner...but as a BGS slab and with a different "single tone" to the card:

I'm wondering...if this is a hand crafted Wagner...if the person that made it perhaps researched "incorrectly" and did the die cut of the cut auto set like theo Boudreau but used an insert card like the Wagner and Reese. Again...know knowledge one bit from me but a couple cards to compare

EDIT: Both cards I just posted show "Authentic Signature" and the Wagner does not Also...the "stats/name" of the Reese shows over the "Timeline" word whereas the Wagner is BELOW the "Timeline" word. Chances are the Reese has it over "Timeline" as it was precut to have the auto. Too bad but that Wagner is still a great custom IF the auto is real.

 

[daveyou]

thanks for the images alex

hmm, the boudreu has similar die cut window. but again, the lack of "AUTHENTIC SIGNATURE" is whats scaring me

here's the image of the back of the wagner that the seller sent me

i wish i can see some of the back of the cards for prime cuts...

dave

 

[metallicalex777]

thanks for the images alex

hmm, the boudreu has similar die cut window. but again, the lack of "AUTHENTIC SIGNATURE" is whats scaring me

here's the image of the back of the wagner that the seller sent me

i wish i can see some of the back of the cards for prime cuts...

dave

Another comparison...per all listings on ebay every one of the 2004 Prime Cuts autos and cuts have serial numbering. The Wagner looks like it doesn't which may be the only none numbered one

Here is the ebay listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... +cuts+auto

 

[A_Pharis]

Wouldn't touch it.

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

thanks for the images alex

hmm, the boudreu has similar die cut window. but again, the lack of "AUTHENTIC SIGNATURE" is whats scaring me

here's the image of the back of the wagner that the seller sent me

i wish i can see some of the back of the cards for prime cuts...

dave

Another comparison...per all listings on ebay every one of the 2004 Prime Cuts autos and cuts have serial numbering. The Wagner looks like it doesn't which may be the only none numbered one

Here is the ebay listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... +cuts+auto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still cant see the Wagner NOT being serial numbered. Even if they made only 1 Im sure they would want to stamp it 1/1.
Something just does not add up.......

EDIT: Plus all the cards from "Timeline" seem to have the bumps at both ends of the cut to hold it in. Not a perfect square.

 

[A_Pharis]

Not to mention the "Hall of Fame" design is in complete view on the Reese. On the Wagner, the cut window cuts off the bottom of the design.

 

[billsanders007]

I'm not completely up on manufacturer history...BUT I don't remember Upper Deck ever owning the Playoff name. I've done about 3 min of research and found that Donruss Playoff was in operation from 2001-2009 and then bought by Panini. The scan of the back of the card has UD logos and holograms but the front says Playoff Prime Cuts...IF, and it is a big if, my logic and information is correct I would run away from this card quickly!

 

[metallicalex777]

thanks for the images alex

hmm, the boudreu has similar die cut window. but again, the lack of "AUTHENTIC SIGNATURE" is whats scaring me

here's the image of the back of the wagner that the seller sent me

i wish i can see some of the back of the cards for prime cuts...

dave

Another comparison...per all listings on ebay every one of the 2004 Prime Cuts autos and cuts have serial numbering. The Wagner looks like it doesn't which may be the only none numbered one

Here is the ebay listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... +cuts+auto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still cant see the Wagner NOT being serial numbered. Even if they made only 1 Im sure they would want to stamp it 1/1.
Something just does not add up.......

EDIT: Plus all the cards from "Timeline" seem to have the bumps at both ends of the cut to hold it in. Not a perfect square.

Thats exactly what I meant. Sad though...such a pretty looking card...damn us and FCB for good info gathering :lol:

 

[daveyou]

thanks very much for the input, fellas!

you guys rock with the info

btw, billsanders007, thats an interesting catch, about the ud holo on the back. did not notice that at all.

dave

 

[billsanders007]

Looking on eBay...here is the back of a REAL Playoff Rickey Henderson auto:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Prime-Cuts ... 2a169e169c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No UD logos...

Buyers are getting scammed somehow!

 

[bongo870]

This card is so fake it isnt even funny. Going by everything gathered there is nothing leaning toward it being real but a MOUND of proof it isnt. I would say stay away!

 

[metallicalex777]

Back of the Reese cut...serial numbered and no UD hologram:

listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Prime-Cuts ... 22efeebe2f

 

[bateson]

dave,

Here is the card that the back came from..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001UPPER-D...US_Baseball&hash=item27c11a6153#ht_500wt_1413

Defiantly not a real card up for auction.

-Scott

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

WOW, someone should pm the seller and ask if he knows its a custom?????

 

[metallicalex777]

WOW, someone should pm the seller and ask if he knows its a custom?????

That would be good. Researching the sellers name I couldn't find any complaints/threads about anything fishy so I assume the seller has no clue. Sucks for them too...quite the audience on the bidders and price.