Rangers get rights to Darvish

[morgoth]

Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

People are hating on the league and competition he has faced and how it will translate and for the money he will be making. You talk about scouting and and how they rate prospects like it is the gospel, well guess what, they are wrong more often than the are right.

There are tons of prospects rated as highly as Mr. Darvish that have failed and it has nothing to do with being a racist to say that.

The A's quite drafting high school pitchers due to their poor translation of stats to ML competition. For a team to do the same for Japanese pitchers due to the same issues is not racist its called scouting and risk aversion. Especially given the size of these contracts teams have to pay for the rights to these players.

Again, he plays in a league mostly Asian, so by default when someone is critical of the competition and league they play in and how it translates they are saying that mostly Asian players have had this issue.

and Major League

 

[Wes]

Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

People are hating on the league and competition he has faced and how it will translate and for the money he will be making. You talk about scouting and and how they rate prospects like it is the gospel, well guess what, they are wrong more often than the are right.

There are tons of prospects rated as highly as Mr. Darvish that have failed and it has nothing to do with being a racist to say that.

The A's quite drafting high school pitchers due to their poor translation of stats to ML competition. For a team to do the same for Japanese pitchers due to the same issues is not racist its called scouting and risk aversion. Especially given the size of these contracts teams have to pay for the rights to these players.

Again, he plays in a league mostly Asian, so by default when someone is critical of the competition and league they play in and how it translates they are saying that mostly Asian players have had this issue.

and Major League

If what you just said was what I had called out earlier in the thread, I'd agree with you, not necessarily racist. That isn't what was said.

Extrapolating your analysis out of a statement like "I guess we can see a younger Irabu" would be an unbelievable reach.

 

[Wes]

Its not about race! i dont care if the guy came from the Slovakian League or the Greek League! The bottom line is that players from Japan have not fared well in MLB!!! Its not rocket science! Yes, some of the players noted do make valuable utility infielders or 7th or 8th inning relievers but to warrant a financial commitment of 5 years and say 125 Million or so is utterly ridiculous and NOT responsible!!! Most people are NOT knocking the player but are knocking the 52 million to negotiate and the other 75 million or so to sign. I wouldnt knock Darvish if he were to sign a 5 year 45-50 million contract. I think most people including myself think that the Rangers grossly overpaid for a guy who comes from a League in Japan that is far inferior to major league baseball! Look at the players from MLB that have become mega stars in japan. Bottom Line- Price was ridiculously exorbitant!!!!

Since sample size isn't important to you, here's a few facts. 20% of all outfielders who have come from Japan to play in the Major League have become 10x All Stars. 60% have won a World Series. 40% have either a league or World Series MVP trophy on their resume.

 

[Casebusters]

I have a question about the posting process,
A team pays the posting fee but then doesn't come to an agreement with the player,
He goes back to Japan without a MLB contract. Right?
Why couldn't a team not really wanting the player, like the Angels or Orioles for example), bid $100 million just so the Rangers or the Blue Jays can't acquire him?
They win the bid, don't come to agreement in 30 days and he goes back to Japan instead of their rival team?

 

[P_Manning 18]

Yes.... if the Rangers dont sign Darvish he returns to Japan and the 51.7M doesnt have to be paid to Yu's team. They might do the posting again if a team did that. Dont know if its a one time deal.

 

[ballerskrip]

Yes.... if the Rangers dont sign Darvish he returns to Japan and the 51.7M doesnt have to be paid to Yu's team. They might do the posting again if a team did that. Dont know if its a one time deal.

If my memory serves me correctly, it is a one time per year event.

 

[Wes]

I have a question about the posting process,
A team pays the posting fee but then doesn't come to an agreement with the player,
He goes back to Japan without a MLB contract. Right?
Why couldn't a team not really wanting the player, like the Angels or Orioles for example), bid $100 million just so the Rangers or the Blue Jays can't acquire him?
They win the bid, don't come to agreement in 30 days and he goes back to Japan instead of their rival team?

I believe the Commissioner can reject bids that he deems to not be in good faith. You might have to show that you have the money budgeted to make a real offer. Not aware of any hard and fast rule but "best interests of baseball" could be enacted a la David Stern + Chris Paul.

 

[bja613]

I think we all need to watch more Blazing Saddles.

Enjoy Life. Laugh at our differences. Respect all.

Excuse me while I whip this out...

HEP ME HEP ME
Somebody help that poor man!

What in the Wide World of Sports is goin' on here?

 

[zach]

~I'm so sick of teams trying to buy a World Series~

 

[NECpilgrims8]

I think we all need to watch more Blazing Saddles.

Enjoy Life. Laugh at our differences. Respect all.

Excuse me while I whip this out...

HEP ME HEP ME
Somebody help that poor man!

What in the Wide World of Sports is goin' on here?

[youtube:tlzlhcsg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJkHykGRXrw[/youtube:tlzlhcsg]

 

[Gwynn545]

Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, El Guapo knew what a plethora "eez", but his right hand man, Jefe, did not...

 

[aarne13]

It would not be good for a team to play games with the posting process. MLB and NPB would have an issue if that was the case. I haven't seen any confirmation but it seems that Oakland had a bid cancelled because of their shenanigans from last year. Iwakuma? I don't know if there are penalties but at minimum you are probably excluded from bidding again.

If Darvish doesn't sign can he be posted next year or does he have to wait 4 yrs? I've seen both mentioned.

 

[notjomommasclint]

racist? negative. you have to compare him to other posted players. since its the same process for each of them. was dice k worth his posting fee? hell no. does that mean yu will fail? nope! but its the closest comparison you have. just like you compare the contracts and success of a player to the player they replaced. you have to compare the posting fee, salary, and success rate of these posted players. it just so happens they are all japenese...

 

[Wes]

racist? negative. you have to compare him to other posted players. since its the same process for each of them. was dice k worth his posting fee? hell no. does that mean yu will fail? nope! but its the closest comparison you have. just like you compare the contracts and success of a player to the player they replaced. you have to compare the posting fee, salary, and success rate of these posted players. it just so happens they are all japenese...

Chan Ho Park is Korean and was never posted. Irabu was never posted either. Assumptions like that have lead to flawed comparisons we're seeing in this thread.

 

[markakis8]

I think we all need to watch more Blazing Saddles.

Enjoy Life. Laugh at our differences. Respect all.

Excuse me while I whip this out...

HEP ME HEP ME
Somebody help that poor man!

What in the Wide World of Sports is goin' on here?

THE SHERIFF IS A N..*BONG*

What's that he said?

He said the sheriff is a near!

 

[justinmandawg]

Harper is Scotch-American, he's not "white".

 

[All The Hype]

Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

Wow really?

No one said a word about race and race was on no one's mind until YOU brought it into this thread; and now you're saying that everyone's comments in this thread are ignorant because they're judging based on color of the player's skin and where they were born? No one did that at all.

People are comparing Darvish to other foreign players because he too is a foreign player. How on earth is that racist?

The specific comparison is to Asian players who have come over to America. Darvish IS an Asian player coming over to America. How on earth is that racist? Isn't that the obvious comparison to make? Sure seems like it to me.


So by your logic, anyone who compares Darvish to a former Asian player coming to the MLB is an ignorant racist. What an idiotic claim to make. If that's how you truly feel, then YOU, my friend, are the ignorant one in this thread.


I lost a lot of respect for you after reading your posts here.

 

[Wes]

[quote="Joshua.Roundtree":3bac8d1q]Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

Wow really?

No one said a word about race and race was on no one's mind until YOU brought it into this thread; and now you're saying that everyone's comments in this thread are ignorant because they're judging based on color of the player's skin and where they were born? No one did that at all.

People are comparing Darvish to other foreign players because he too is a foreign player. How on earth is that racist?

The specific comparison is to Asian players who have come over to America. Darvish IS an Asian player coming over to America. How on earth is that racist? Isn't that the obvious comparison to make? Sure seems like it to me.


So by your logic, anyone who compares Darvish to a former Asian player coming to the MLB is an ignorant racist. What an idiotic claim to make. If that's how you truly feel, then YOU, my friend, are the ignorant one in this thread.


I lost a lot of respect for you after reading your posts here.[/quote:3bac8d1q]

Of course it's the obvious comparison. The point is that it's irrelevant and stupid.

Does me telling you that Yu Darvish is half Iranian and half Japanese tell you ANYTHING about how good he is as a pitcher? If you think that the answer to that is yes, then you have some looking in the mirror to do.

It's one thing to say, "hey how does Darvish's performance in NPB compare to Matsuzaka's." It's another to say, "oh he's Japanese? He'll be another bust like Irabu." I hope that you can see the difference in the motivations behind those statements. The latter is essentially saying, "you're going to be bad at something because you're the same race as someone else who was bad at it," - that's racist.

 

[justinmandawg]

[quote="Joshua.Roundtree":2cet06ep]Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

Wow really?

No one said a word about race and race was on no one's mind until YOU brought it into this thread; and now you're saying that everyone's comments in this thread are ignorant because they're judging based on color of the player's skin and where they were born? No one did that at all.

People are comparing Darvish to other foreign players because he too is a foreign player. How on earth is that racist?

The specific comparison is to Asian players who have come over to America. Darvish IS an Asian player coming over to America. How on earth is that racist? Isn't that the obvious comparison to make? Sure seems like it to me.


So by your logic, anyone who compares Darvish to a former Asian player coming to the MLB is an ignorant racist. What an idiotic claim to make. If that's how you truly feel, then YOU, my friend, are the ignorant one in this thread.


I lost a lot of respect for you after reading your posts here.

Of course it's the obvious comparison. The point is that it's irrelevant and stupid.

Does me telling you that Yu Darvish is half Iranian and half Japanese tell you ANYTHING about how good he is as a pitcher? If you think that the answer to that is yes, then you have some looking in the mirror to do.

It's one thing to say, "hey how does Darvish's performance in NPB compare to Matsuzaka's." It's another to say, "oh he's Japanese? He'll be another bust like Irabu." I hope that you can see the difference in the motivations behind those statements. The latter is essentially saying, "you're going to be bad at something because you're the same race as someone else who was bad at it," - that's racist.[/quote:2cet06ep]

Talk about reading into things. Who said these things you are quoting?

 

[morgoth]

[quote="Joshua.Roundtree":2svn5cc2]Asian guy is upset because everyone points out that only TWO Asian players out of the plethora ("Do you know what a 'plethora' is? Good, neither does El Guapo") that have come stateside have had All-star level success. It's not racist, it's just fact at this point. But just like 90% of the banter on this board, it's all speculation at this point. Let's wait to judge him once he actually gets on the field against MLB players.

Actually, me being Asian has nothing to do with it. I'm more irritated that a bunch of bullies hiding behind computer screens think that it's okay or even intelligent to belittle a player based on a racially based evaluation. I'd be saying the same things if you or anyone else was chalking up Cespedes as an automatic failure because he's Cuban, Bryce Harper because he's white, Anthony Gose because he's black or Jesus Montero because he's Venezuelan.

Not only is it insulting to people of intelligence - regardless of their race - it's insulting to scouts and talent evaluation in general, from those within the Rangers organization to those in the media. How many of the ignorant comments in this thread, including yours, are made by people who have never even seen the guy pitch beyond a few internet highlight clips? Show some actual intelligence and evaluate someone based on what they are and what they've done - not what color their skin is or where they were born.

Wow really?

No one said a word about race and race was on no one's mind until YOU brought it into this thread; and now you're saying that everyone's comments in this thread are ignorant because they're judging based on color of the player's skin and where they were born? No one did that at all.

People are comparing Darvish to other foreign players because he too is a foreign player. How on earth is that racist?

The specific comparison is to Asian players who have come over to America. Darvish IS an Asian player coming over to America. How on earth is that racist? Isn't that the obvious comparison to make? Sure seems like it to me.


So by your logic, anyone who compares Darvish to a former Asian player coming to the MLB is an ignorant racist. What an idiotic claim to make. If that's how you truly feel, then YOU, my friend, are the ignorant one in this thread.


I lost a lot of respect for you after reading your posts here.

Of course it's the obvious comparison. The point is that it's irrelevant and stupid.

Does me telling you that Yu Darvish is half Iranian and half Japanese tell you ANYTHING about how good he is as a pitcher? If you think that the answer to that is yes, then you have some looking in the mirror to do.

It's one thing to say, "hey how does Darvish's performance in NPB compare to Matsuzaka's." It's another to say, "oh he's Japanese? He'll be another bust like Irabu." I hope that you can see the difference in the motivations behind those statements. The latter is essentially saying, "you're going to be bad at something because you're the same race as someone else who was bad at it," - that's racist.[/quote:2svn5cc2]

Actually it's not racist what people are saying. If someone brought up Hank Conger or Shane Komine as a example of a failed player to compare him too than that could be perceived as racist as they are American Asians. What EVERYONE is saying for the most part is that the players that come from Asian countries either through posting or FA signings have not lived up to their contracts.

Its actually more of a xenophobia or nationalistic but not racist as by definition more than one race was brought up and the only thing consistent was the countries not race being used as examples.