RAZOR ANNOUNCES NEW 2010 POKER PRODUCT....

[mredsox89]

Tony,

I'm in no way associated with Razor and quite frankly their products didn't do it for me.

But, they are hardly at fault for Bowman's suckage.

Topps has been sitting pretty for a long time without any real challenger, and they've decided that you're an idiot. If they wanted to outbid Razor for every one of those damn prospects, they could've.

Instead, they figured that it wasn't worth the money because people would buy their bowman products anyways.

This is hardly Razor's fault. A real company wouldn't have let this happen, they would have squashed Razor dead.

If you don't kill the competition early, they start getting revenue and building up steam such that you can't squash them.

What topps should've done was nail down these exclusives with an open offer to any prospects to match Razor.

Topps instead decided to rely on their brand capital for a couple years while Razor fizzled out. In this scenario, only the consumer gets screwed.

With topps' recent exclusive baseball arrangements, they better pray that the other companies don't have enough capital to get through this. If UD is on the brink of bankruptcy, this is a great move. I'm all for smash-killing. If UD can survive without baseball for a few years, this is a terrible move.

You can't blame a razor for trying to bust a monopoly, but you certainly can blame topps for not fighting back. They looked at their bottom line and decided that you were too stupid to not buy a product, regardless of the checklist.

Thanked.

A real company wouldn't just assume people are going to buy their products on name alone. Topps could have had these guys but decided it wasn't worth it to them. Blame Topps for the down year in Bowman products, not Razor

Topps knew that Razor's baseball model wasn't sustainable. From the get-go, they pretty much decided to let them implode, as opposed to throwing a ton of money down to compete for prospects' rights.

That wasn't my point. It was that people are blaming Razor for Bowman products being lackluster. Having nothing to do with Razor's success, Topps could have put the $ into these players and they didn't. Now in the long run it might be a smarter investment for Topps, there is really no way in finding out.

Draft will sell out, Sterling will sell out, so i guess it still works. You can blame Razor for many things and trash on them for many others, most of which i reluctantly agree with, but Topps had the ability to bolster its products, and decided not to.

 

[totran]

A real company wouldn't just assume people are going to buy their products on name alone. Topps could have had these guys but decided it wasn't worth it to them. Blame Topps for the down year in Bowman products, not Razor

yes topps did decide that, see i guess i dont understand...
i thought these guys could sign for anyone even 2 different companies.
i thought razor innovated the "i'll pay you more and you only sign for me" thing
or exclusive.

ive never heard of this except when it comes to derek jeter

so someone straighten me out. the guys that sign for topps are they all exclusive?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Tony,

I'm in no way associated with Razor and quite frankly their products didn't do it for me.

But, they are hardly at fault for Bowman's suckage.

Topps has been sitting pretty for a long time without any real challenger, and they've decided that you're an idiot. If they wanted to outbid Razor for every one of those damn prospects, they could've.

Instead, they figured that it wasn't worth the money because people would buy their bowman products anyways.

This is hardly Razor's fault. A real company wouldn't have let this happen, they would have squashed Razor dead.

If you don't kill the competition early, they start getting revenue and building up steam such that you can't squash them.

What topps should've done was nail down these exclusives with an open offer to any prospects to match Razor.

Topps instead decided to rely on their brand capital for a couple years while Razor fizzled out. In this scenario, only the consumer gets screwed.

With topps' recent exclusive baseball arrangements, they better pray that the other companies don't have enough capital to get through this. If UD is on the brink of bankruptcy, this is a great move. I'm all for smash-killing. If UD can survive without baseball for a few years, this is a terrible move.

You can't blame a razor for trying to bust a monopoly, but you certainly can blame topps for not fighting back. They looked at their bottom line and decided that you were too stupid to not buy a product, regardless of the checklist.

Thanked.

A real company wouldn't just assume people are going to buy their products on name alone. Topps could have had these guys but decided it wasn't worth it to them. Blame Topps for the down year in Bowman products, not Razor

Topps knew that Razor's baseball model wasn't sustainable. From the get-go, they pretty much decided to let them implode, as opposed to throwing a ton of money down to compete for prospects' rights.

That wasn't my point. It was that people are blaming Razor for Bowman products being lackluster. Having nothing to do with Razor's success, Topps could have put the $ into these players and they didn't. Now in the long run it might be a smarter investment for Topps, there is really no way in finding out.

Draft will sell out, Sterling will sell out, so i guess it still works. You can blame Razor for many things and trash on them for many others, most of which i reluctantly agree with, but Topps had the ability to bolster its products, and decided not to.

I see your point, and you're right.

I'm just pointing out that it appears to have been the right decision for Topps, as all it cost them was one bad year. They felt from the get-go that Razor was going to fail in baseball (and it seems to have happened faster than anticipated). As you point out, they still "sold out" Bowman (though I still think that Topps' products are all made-to-order, which means that there is no such thing as "sold out").

 

[mredsox89]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":1aydzqh2]

Tony,

I'm in no way associated with Razor and quite frankly their products didn't do it for me.

But, they are hardly at fault for Bowman's suckage.

Topps has been sitting pretty for a long time without any real challenger, and they've decided that you're an idiot. If they wanted to outbid Razor for every one of those damn prospects, they could've.

Instead, they figured that it wasn't worth the money because people would buy their bowman products anyways.

This is hardly Razor's fault. A real company wouldn't have let this happen, they would have squashed Razor dead.

If you don't kill the competition early, they start getting revenue and building up steam such that you can't squash them.

What topps should've done was nail down these exclusives with an open offer to any prospects to match Razor.

Topps instead decided to rely on their brand capital for a couple years while Razor fizzled out. In this scenario, only the consumer gets screwed.

With topps' recent exclusive baseball arrangements, they better pray that the other companies don't have enough capital to get through this. If UD is on the brink of bankruptcy, this is a great move. I'm all for smash-killing. If UD can survive without baseball for a few years, this is a terrible move.

You can't blame a razor for trying to bust a monopoly, but you certainly can blame topps for not fighting back. They looked at their bottom line and decided that you were too stupid to not buy a product, regardless of the checklist.

Thanked.

A real company wouldn't just assume people are going to buy their products on name alone. Topps could have had these guys but decided it wasn't worth it to them. Blame Topps for the down year in Bowman products, not Razor

Topps knew that Razor's baseball model wasn't sustainable. From the get-go, they pretty much decided to let them implode, as opposed to throwing a ton of money down to compete for prospects' rights.

That wasn't my point. It was that people are blaming Razor for Bowman products being lackluster. Having nothing to do with Razor's success, Topps could have put the $ into these players and they didn't. Now in the long run it might be a smarter investment for Topps, there is really no way in finding out.

Draft will sell out, Sterling will sell out, so i guess it still works. You can blame Razor for many things and trash on them for many others, most of which i reluctantly agree with, but Topps had the ability to bolster its products, and decided not to.

I see your point, and you're right.

I'm just pointing out that it appears to have been the right decision for Topps, as all it cost them was one bad year. They felt from the get-go that Razor was going to fail in baseball (and it seems to have happened faster than anticipated). As you point out, they still "sold out" Bowman (though I still think that Topps' products are all made-to-order, which means that there is no such thing as "sold out").[/quote:1aydzqh2]

We will never know if it was a right/wrong decision. Topps would have sold more products had they put the $ over for the bigger guys, but would it be worth it, we don't know. And it isn't just one year, because we have seen with a player like Beckham, that they use a guy for multiple products over multiple years. Now there is a new draft class, but if Strasburg happens to sign an excl with UD or something they miss out on that too.

 

[pigskincardboard]

Considering this is in the baseball thread, I have no problem continuing the debate.

I briefly mentioned that Topps decided to let Razor fizzle out which probably didn't effect their bottom line in the fiscal year, but it did effect the customer.

It's tough to tell how much they'll lose down the road, which's why I would have squashed them.

When you put out an entire year, or essentially two, when you consider that BDP is the big-boy of downright crap, it'll stick with you. What's making this worse is the awful secondary market prices. Even the people that're keeping everything from their busted cases go to ebay and see how they did.

These people are seeing AWFUL value, even if it's just perceived value that's been decreased by the market.

This is going to stick with people for a while.

Topps is only selling out because they're making just enough product to sell out.

I really think this haunts them for longer than they'd ever dream.

With that said, I guess if Topps was really hard up for cash: Good move.

 

[SINFULONE]

mr razor:

sorry yes i read your name many times in this thread i just forgot it.

i wish you further success. your poker product is ....well a poker product....
i wish you much success with that.

now to my agenda ill be brief
remember 1989? a new product upperdeck?
i remember my 89 donruss cards and then seeing my first upperdeck card.
i was 13 and upperdeck rocked my world.
fast forward 20ish years later and im back into cards since the summer of 2008 everything is new prospects autos relic cards ser # cards and along comes a purchase of bowman chrome because joba is on the box....
and the love affair started
my favorite product and new hobby interest bowman /prospecting.
2009 was going to be the year i threw all my hobby $ at bowman
[upperdeck turned out to be junk nowadays]
you burst on the scene and announce your hobby exclusives and ruin my hobby experience and devalue my favorite product.
that move right there killed you and angered many myself included.
yes bowman sucked this year you have something to do with that.
if you wanted to be top dog you do it with an innovative top notch product.
if you had the exclusive on milk eggs and bagels your deli would not get all the business, people would just stop eating breakfast
your thick ugly poorly cut cards were such a disappointment i watched friends shell out $40 a box towards the end and they are still sitting on many of those cards.
razor metal those look innovative and cool those were your best offering too bad ill never hold one
thank god you bowed out of baseball, my anger is greatly reduced when you do come back and you should. leave the tanya harding tactics at the door and win us over with product not "i'm the only game in town"
tony

Tony,

I am sorry you have come to the conclusion you have. The fact is, Topps did not care enough about your business to compete. They assumed you would carry on buying their products on name alone. We even offered Topps some of our players early on (before we announced them) and TOPPS had no interest. This could have been different, but Topps didn't care. I know our model didn't make Topps products better, but what manufacturer of anything makes products in an effort to enhance the competition.

Unfortunately for many non-fans, we have not "bowed out of baseball" for good. We have just taken a draft off to figure out what the future holds with MiLB and MLB changes, not to mention if the world would survive this economic downturn.
IF we come back, it will be with innovation and a competitive spirit.

Until then, I hope you at least look at what we make in the interim. In my opinion, we are beginning to figure out the manufacturing business more and more with each launch and I am confident we are equipped to bring a top notch effort on future releases.

Hopefully we will win you over someday,
BG

You sound wishy washy in the second to last paragraph.First you say you have not "bowed out of baseball for good", and later on you mention you're not even sure you'll get back in the game or not.Which is it?

You came on here last year trumpeting to the masses what a great business plan you had over and over, and now you don't know what you want to do except make some poker cards.<yawn>You've supposedly been involved in this business since cavemen roamed the Earth, yet you still are "beginning to figure out the manufacturing business more and more".If your plan was so great to begin with you wouldn't have been kicked to the curb so easily.

 

[Wes]

mr razor:

sorry yes i read your name many times in this thread i just forgot it.

i wish you further success. your poker product is ....well a poker product....
i wish you much success with that.

now to my agenda ill be brief
remember 1989? a new product upperdeck?
i remember my 89 donruss cards and then seeing my first upperdeck card.
i was 13 and upperdeck rocked my world.
fast forward 20ish years later and im back into cards since the summer of 2008 everything is new prospects autos relic cards ser # cards and along comes a purchase of bowman chrome because joba is on the box....
and the love affair started
my favorite product and new hobby interest bowman /prospecting.
2009 was going to be the year i threw all my hobby $ at bowman
[upperdeck turned out to be junk nowadays]
you burst on the scene and announce your hobby exclusives and ruin my hobby experience and devalue my favorite product.
that move right there killed you and angered many myself included.
yes bowman sucked this year you have something to do with that.
if you wanted to be top dog you do it with an innovative top notch product.
if you had the exclusive on milk eggs and bagels your deli would not get all the business, people would just stop eating breakfast
your thick ugly poorly cut cards were such a disappointment i watched friends shell out $40 a box towards the end and they are still sitting on many of those cards.
razor metal those look innovative and cool those were your best offering too bad ill never hold one
thank god you bowed out of baseball, my anger is greatly reduced when you do come back and you should. leave the tanya harding tactics at the door and win us over with product not "i'm the only game in town"
tony

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Topps is only selling out because they're making just enough product to sell out.

I keep reading that Topps "sold out" Bowman. When I worked there (2001-2002), every product was made-to-order, which means that they put out sell sheets, took sales orders, and then printed exactly the amount that was sold. There was no "sold out," and there was never any left over product at Topps. I know a lot has changed there since Eisner's group came in, but does anyone know for certain if this policy has changed?

 

[mredsox89]

Topps is only selling out because they're making just enough product to sell out.

I keep reading that Topps "sold out" Bowman. When I worked there (2001-2002), every product was made-to-order, which means that they put out sell sheets, took sales orders, and then printed exactly the amount that was sold. There was no "sold out," and there was never any left over product at Topps. I know a lot has changed there since Eisner's group came in, but does anyone know for certain if this policy has changed?

No, i believe you are correct.

 

[totran]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.[/quote]

something is off with your statement

 

[Wes]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement[/quote]

Which is what?

 

[kentuckyderby]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement

Which is what?[/quote]


think he's missing the irony LLWES

 

[kentuckyderby]

08 BDP could have been one of the best ever but overal two thumbs up

 

[cmixer]

um ... I haven't read any but this last page, and things turned sour.

RAZOR - while I haven't spent a large percentage of my hobby dollars on your products yet, I'm glad you're in the business. It creates competition & therefore a higher demand of excellence within the hobby. I'm even more pleased you are creating products where few others are (poker).

I have some of your earlier POKER cards (including the quad Helmuth), and look forward to another round ...

 

[totran]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement

Which is what?[/quote]

maybe i remember things wrong but bowman draft was out well before razors announcement

 

[kentuckyderby]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement

Which is what?

maybe i remember things wrong but bowman draft was out well before razors announcement[/quote]


Razor was talking about getting Tim Beckham, Skipworth, and others for a loooooong time
Not exactly how long but before July I believe

 

[Wes]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement

Which is what?

maybe i remember things wrong but bowman draft was out well before razors announcement[/quote]

Razor Sig Series announced exclusives before BDP's release.

 

[totran]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement

Which is what?

maybe i remember things wrong but bowman draft was out well before razors announcement

Razor was talking about getting Tim Beckham, Skipworth, and others for a loooooong time
Not exactly how long but before July I believe[/quote]

i just remember hearing the announcement and saying thats going to suck for the next bowman bowman draft was on the market already

 

[sportscardtheory]

They make cards of dorks? lol What's next, chess cards. So many of these poker players are such goobers. And to the person just waiting to tell me how much money they make, I don't care... they are still dorks.

I guess if you can call them dorks, I can tell yourself you are a turd.

At least I'm not a poker player.

 

[justinmandawg]

[quote="LL

08 BDP, which is the product most impacted by Razor, is perhaps the strongest draft product out there.

something is off with your statement

Which is what?

maybe i remember things wrong but bowman draft was out well before razors announcement

Razor was talking about getting Tim Beckham, Skipworth, and others for a loooooong time
Not exactly how long but before July I believe

i just remember hearing the announcement and saying thats going to suck for the next bowman bowman draft was on the market already[/quote]

Is English your first language?