RAZOR ANNOUNCES NEW 2010 POKER PRODUCT....

[yakacack]

I still dont understand why there is a thread about poker on the baseball boards. Point of the non-sport board if nothing is going to be put there that should be?

 

[Crash Davis]

I will let Brian's propoganda to the talking here.

Good luck the rest of the way Brian.

 

[Razor]

1) You assume the front man is "down to earth".
2) You also assume that the front man does not have a holier than thou attitude.
3) Very few people are jealous of Razor, or what Brian Gray does. I believe more people are upset as to the damage he and his money have inflicted on the prospecting game of 2008-2010, as well as the monetary damages caused by Razor based on Brian Gray's assertions and subsequent decision to produce and eBay-distribute Metal.

1> I am down to earth, ask around to people who have been in this "BUSINESS" (and hobby) for 20 years.

2> I did come across cocky and I apologize. I just take issue with uneducated statements intended to harm me or my company. I urge people to consider the source.

3> I am not seeking anyone's jealousy. Any damage done to the prospecting game was done by Topps and their lack or appreciation of your business. It would not have taken much money for Topps to compete. They just didnt think you guys would call them to the mat. They were certain you would roillover and buy inferior products. (And many did).
What is Topps' excuse now why Bowman, Sterling, and Chrome are not performing? In 2025 when these products are still failing, will it be my fault then?

The fact is the market is shifiting away from prospects and into vintage and HOF content. Yes, can you can make some money speculating, but not like 2003,2004,2005.

Anyways, nice to hear from you again Jeff.
BG

 

[Jaypers]

3> I am not seeking anyone's jealousy. Any damage done to the prospecting game was done by Topps and their lack or appreciation of your business. It would not have taken much money for Topps to compete. They just didnt think you guys would call them to the mat. They were certain you would roillover and buy inferior products. (And many did).
What is Topps' excuse now why Bowman, Sterling, and Chrome are not performing? In 2025 when these products are still failing, will it be my fault then?

When products sell out based on upon a company's reputation alone, the company feels as though it has no need to justify or make excuses for its' sales strategies each year.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

3> I am not seeking anyone's jealousy. Any damage done to the prospecting game was done by Topps and their lack or appreciation of your business. It would not have taken much money for Topps to compete. They just didnt think you guys would call them to the mat. They were certain you would roillover and buy inferior products. (And many did).
What is Topps' excuse now why Bowman, Sterling, and Chrome are not performing? In 2025 when these products are still failing, will it be my fault then?

When products sell out based on upon a company's reputation alone, the company feels as though it has no need to justify or make excuses for its' sales strategies each year.

Not to mention that the people worried about the bottom lines at Topps have no idea who any of these prospects are, and therefore of what makes a strong product.

However, a product "selling out" has a different meaning at Topps, as I believe all of their stuff is Made-To-Order (at least it was when I worked there; Eisner may have changed that up in his streamlining)

 

[Bob Loblaw]

1) You assume the front man is "down to earth".
2) You also assume that the front man does not have a holier than thou attitude.
3) Very few people are jealous of Razor, or what Brian Gray does. I believe more people are upset as to the damage he and his money have inflicted on the prospecting game of 2008-2010, as well as the monetary damages caused by Razor based on Brian Gray's assertions and subsequent decision to produce and eBay-distribute Metal.

1> I am down to earth, ask around to people who have been in this "BUSINESS" (and hobby) for 20 years.

2> I did come across cocky and I apologize. I just take issue with uneducated statements intended to harm me or my company. I urge people to consider the source.

3> I am not seeking anyone's jealousy. Any damage done to the prospecting game was done by Topps and their lack or appreciation of your business. It would not have taken much money for Topps to compete. They just didnt think you guys would call them to the mat. They were certain you would roillover and buy inferior products. (And many did).
What is Topps' excuse now why Bowman, Sterling, and Chrome are not performing? In 2025 when these products are still failing, will it be my fault then?

The fact is the market is shifiting away from prospects and into vintage and HOF content. Yes, can you can make some money speculating, but not like 2003,2004,2005.

Anyways, nice to hear from you again Jeff.
BG

Uneducated statements? On the internet? Never! However, I think a lot of what gets your dander up is noted in the response to #2 above - "intended to harm you or your company". I don't think anyone through the history of the FCB has made a statement with the direct intent to harm Razor sales, and I believe that you don't accept that proposition. FCB, and the BMB, and RCCD before that (I wonder how many people know what that is) was all about discussion - the pros and cons of products, and the future investment potential in said product. When faced with negative opinions, it was obvious you didn't appreciate same. . . understandably.

I am not even close to having my finger on the pulse of this hobby - I've sold out a good deal of what I own and don't plan on buying anything else unless it's with my son should he decide to get into the hobby hardcore. I wonder if vintage and HOF content will last, as there's only so much "new" to the product. Only so many autos to get, and so many jerseys to chop up, with no new players... I have a decent sized Mike Schmidt collection, but it doesn't excite me anymore. With prospecting there's a new player right around the corner - it's been around since the advent of Fleer & Donruss with '81 Fernando Valenzuela cards, and it will be around forever.

The economy obviously has something to do with card values, but I think it goes without saying that Razor has had a a negative impact on the baseball card collecting scene as well. I don't know exactly what you mean by Bowman products "not performing". I've never seen a baseball card circus or stage show, and mine generally just sit there, so . . .

That being said, I wish you luck in your future poker and non-sport endeavours.

 

[mredsox89]

Prospect products rise and fall with the economy more than any other niche in the hobby. I believe that the prospect market will rebound some time around the end of the Razor exclusive deals. Unfortunately? for Brian, Razor baseball was introduced during the downturn of the prospect market. Even so, Razor did well with their products in terms of selling them out to distributors so it is hard to argue with the overall business aspect from their point. I think that if Razor takes a few years off from the baseball market and then starts up again after the exclusive contracts are up they will be able to provide a competitive product. At least Brian is aware of what the hobby wants, whether it translates into a solid product is yet to be seen. Razor metal was a great product, but the events proceeding up to it as well as the release left a lot wanted from the consumers.

 

[Razor]

Brian and I have run in some of the same circles (although admittedly not on the highest level as he has) I owned a card shop that had significant sales that allowed me to forge relationships with many people within the industry. Oddly enough I spent many many dollars with Edgeman, which is Brian's former business and that is something I believe he will even confirm...but he doesnt need to. Add is the fact that some higher performing card shops get invited to roundtable discussions with manufacturers to offer opinions on products (I have participated in Topps and UD roundtables) and have attended many of the sales seminars that Topps used to promote across the nation. These seminars included the attendance of many higher ups who requested our thoughts on Topps products. I have attended 4 such Topps seminars. (I know...you are happy for me) And the fact that I spent seven years in major league baseball (in the front office for a national league team) and met many of the people that shaped sportscard policy for MLB and MLBPA would also give an indication that jealousy is not an issue with me.

Your type of post really ticks me off because you really dont know who you are talking about when you make stupid statements about someone else on a message board. Yes this thread may have gone on too long and my post might be a little over the top but to you Bodiaz...I say shut the he** up because you dont know who or what you are talking about. I think this post made me snap and want to fire back on message board idiots like bodiaz when they really dont have a freaking clue. Maybe Bodiaz you need to get off the computer in the school library and get back to class instead of being on a message board in th emiddle of the day.

I have no problem with McHenry. VERY good customer of my previous business and his opinion is VERY respected by me.
We may not agree about everything, but I think he is sincere in wanting the best for the industry. THAT we have in common. Now, our job is to figure out how to get there together with other like minded concerned hobby professionals.
BG

 

[mchenrycards]

I think Jeff is right in that I dont believe anyone wanted to see Razor damaged in any way. I believe all the critisism was based on the product and in a smaller sense, the actions of the the main person which caused some to take a step back and reconsider their position with Razor. Nothing more, nothing less. I certainly dont wish to see the company go out of business and I would say 99.9% of people on these boards feel the same way. I think there are other issues that have contributed to the love/hate relationship this board has with Razor. I hope Razor and Brian do well because I always enjoyed the service I received from Edgeman and have nothing bad to say about that company. I just think ...as Brian said, there is a bit of cockyness there that contributes to the issues on this board. Brian has always been a good guy and I would go out of my way for him but, as with many business decisions, nobody will agree all of the time

 

[huntah]

Hoping this will bring back on topic!

 

[cgilmo]

well huntuh

This is a baseball board, so therefore the people steering it the baseball direction are actually not off topic.


However it's always good for collectors to talk with manufacturers regardless of venue, so that is why this poker thread has been allowed to stay up in a baseball forum.

 

[huntah]

Hey Brian, will the sunglasses/caps be auto'ed or coming with any kind of COA, because the Raymer glasses can be bought on ebay for 0.99$ so if they don't have nothing different it would be bad IMO.

 

[kentuckyderby]

I enjoy the poker products from the past

I think the play-in tourney concept is cool on paper but:
1) really good chance not all seats redeemed. Based on the low # of USA jerseys redeemed from Letterman product, that's not out of the question
2) the way of rectifying the potential of #1 (some kind of system where people can qualify for unredeemed seats by sending in an entry)will always have doubters
(ie how do you know that those who get selected just aren't random people who BG wants to pick)
I guess to be fair, how do you prove that all superfractors and /50 autos are packed out as well? It isn't so much that I doubt that the redemptions are packed, it's the 2nd chance way to qualify that seems lousy. But then again, I don't know a better solution other than leaving the unredeemed seats empty

Regardless, I am busting because I like the poker product I've seen and not because I want the golden ticket. But man, that golden ticket would be sweet

 

[thenumberonemetfan]

I enjoy the poker products from the past

I think the play-in tourney concept is cool on paper but:
1) really good chance not all seats redeemed. Based on the low # of USA jerseys redeemed from Letterman product, that's not out of the question
2) the way of rectifying the potential of #1 (some kind of system where people can qualify for unredeemed seats by sending in an entry)will always have doubters
(ie how do you know that those who get selected just aren't random people who BG wants to pick)
I guess to be fair, how do you prove that all superfractors and /50 autos are packed out as well? It isn't so much that I doubt that the redemptions are packed, it's the 2nd chance way to qualify that seems lousy. But then again, I don't know a better solution other than leaving the unredeemed seats empty

Regardless, I am busting because I like the poker product I've seen and not because I want the golden ticket. But man, that golden ticket would be sweet

Not sure but I think I read there will be a mail in program so there are no empty seats.

 

[G $MONEY$]

wrong thread

 

[allstars]

Edgeman was one of the 3-4 biggest distribution companies in the history of this industry (ask around).

Brian, was Edgeman ever a direct distributor for Topps or Upper Deck or Wizards of the Coast?

NO... we were the largest secondary market distributor in the business with sales of over $50 million in a number of years...
BG

That would make your previous claim simply false then, wouldn't it?

 

[mchenrycards]

[quote="Warrens All Stars":2sohrkdh]

Edgeman was one of the 3-4 biggest distribution companies in the history of this industry (ask around).

Brian, was Edgeman ever a direct distributor for Topps or Upper Deck or Wizards of the Coast?

NO... we were the largest secondary market distributor in the business with sales of over $50 million in a number of years...
BG

That would make your previous claim simply false then, wouldn't it?[/quote:2sohrkdh]

Isnt this a matter of semantics??? Edgeman was a huge distributor....what the heck difference does it make if they were direct or not with these companies!!

 

[justinmandawg]

[quote="Warrens All Stars":2s7tctvf]

Edgeman was one of the 3-4 biggest distribution companies in the history of this industry (ask around).

Brian, was Edgeman ever a direct distributor for Topps or Upper Deck or Wizards of the Coast?

NO... we were the largest secondary market distributor in the business with sales of over $50 million in a number of years...
BG

That would make your previous claim simply false then, wouldn't it?[/quote:2s7tctvf]

Go back to trying to get guys on here to donate a grand for a 100.00 card.

How long ago did you get rid of the dice game in your shop or do you still have one?

 

[SINFULONE]

I will let Brian's propoganda to the talking here.

Good luck the rest of the way Brian.

Too bad he won't give you an automatic NPN selection in his online poker tournament if you took up his "offer".

 

[pigskincardboard]

Uh, this seems like a rather massive liability. Have you run this buy a legal department?

Do you know in which states you can sell this product?

Is there a cash equivalent for the *poker tournament*

This may have been brought up, but there's no way in hell I'd dabble in any kind of WSOP redemption.

I hope for your sake that you've thought the legal aspect of this through.

It just takes one single kind telling his parents he blew money on this because of the redemption, and you're screwed.

People selling this product will probably even need a lottery license in their state..

I certainly hope that you've run this by your legal department before making promises.