Ryan Howard > Albert Pujols

[Jeff D]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... itor.shtml[/url][/quote:3shdj81r]

According to that, I think you are correct. He probably would make it in. I am not afraid to man up and admit I was wrong about that statement. [/quote:3shdj81r]



No need to admit you were wrong. If Pujols were to never play again he wouldn't make the HOF.

For one, he's only played 9 years. You need 10 to be eligible for the HOF.

 

[FromKoufaxtoEdwin]

Only once in his career has Ryan Howard been the best player on his team. Albert Pujols is the best player on the planet. How uninformed does a person have to be to actually start this thread?

I honestly think this is all a desperate bid for attention. There is no other rational explanation for the requisite stupidity to make the argument he is trying to make. Pujols is among my least favorite players in baseball, but to say that Ryan Howard is half the player Pujols is can be nothing more than a joke.

Totally agree, which is why i spent 3 sentences on it. Howard always has great traditional numbers, but hes not on the same stratosphere as Pujols. Someone else mentioned MVP votes, which to me, are meaningless. Most voters look at categories that dont properly evaluate player production (the traditional triple crown categories). Ryan Howard is a really good hitter, a hitter I would love to be on my team (especially over James Loney). But in all honesty, the guy isnt even a top 5 first baseman in the league. This year he was number 10 amongst 1st baseman in wOBA (by far the best measurement of offensive production). Last year he was 12th. 2007 he was 7th. 2006 he was 2nd. Basically, the guy has one year as an elite offensive player at his position, but is seen as an elite player. He gets the most attention on his team, but the true superstar is Chase Utley. Utley is the guy on the HOF career path, not a guy who has only been a top 5 offensive player at his own position once in his career.

 

[Lars]

If people can whine in the case for Mark Reynolds, Howard is even more of a glaring testament that strikeouts are overrated.

No one is as good a hitter today as Albert Pujols is, but Howard is up there among the guys I'd pay to watch hit four times in a game.

 

[allstars]

Pujols is one of the top 10 hitters of ALL TIME.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

He's a decade away from even being mentioned in that club. Right now he's just a member of the Don Mattingly What Could've Been Club...

Lars is right on the money, RBIs are the most important offensive stat (however you get them).

 

[lordsepic]

[quote="Jays_Cards":1aqonsbn]Pujols is one of the top 10 hitters of ALL TIME.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

He's a decade away from even being mentioned in that club. Right now he's just a member of the Don Mattingly What Could've Been Club...

Lars is right on the money, RBIs are the most important offensive stat (however you get them).[/quote:1aqonsbn]

RBI's dont measure how productive a player is...he cannot get his teammates on base... that is like saying runs are the most important...you can't make the guys behind you hit either. He is not a decade away from being mentioned in that club. Harold Reynolds, Buster Onley and Peter Boston Gammons mention almost weekly he is one of the best hitters they have ever seen... Granted He needs to put more time in still but if 3 of the best baseball minds think it...probably some truth to it

 

[bodiaz]

With or without anything, Bonds is not only campared to Mantle, Dimaggio, and Foxx, he was far better!

Bonds was nothing but an above average player without roids and I will always remember him for sitting on
his wallet in left field costing the Giants a WS ring! I bet Mantle could of thrown out Sid Bream at home!

Dumbest thing I have ever heard! 5 MVPS before roids, 2 more than any other player ever. You are just trying to create arguments. The Phillies suck!

 

[ThoseBackPages]

[quote="Jays_Cards":uv0s1uy4]Pujols is one of the top 10 hitters of ALL TIME.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

He's a decade away from even being mentioned in that club. Right now he's just a member of the Don Mattingly What Could've Been Club...

Lars is right on the money, RBIs are the most important offensive stat (however you get them).[/quote:uv0s1uy4]

Don Mattingly was a loser, Pujols has won one so far.

 

[Sly]

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going and Kevin STILL continues to troll as best he can.

Now claiming Bonds was an "average player" before the 'roids? Wow.

You know what guys, let's just face it, because Ryan Howard is still in the playoffs today...

Howard > Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig, Pujols, Bonds, any other player in baseball history.

By that logic, every single Phillies, Dodgers, Yankees and Angels player is better than those other players because they are still in the playoffs.

Nevermind stats, nevermind reason...THIS is the logic of it all.

And Kevin, if you'd prefer a guy who in his career hits .230 and strikes out nearly 1/3 of every at-bat in the ninth inning, and has his second-lowest OPS by inning (.807) in the ninth, then you can have him.

I'll gladly take the guy who hits .307 and strikes out less than 1 in every 10 at-bats, with a .945 OPS in that same situation.

I'm done here.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Ha, did anyone see who is at #17 on this list??

Yes he would, and fairly easily..This is not gospel, but I cant think of a better measure for HOF worthiness...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... itor.shtml

 

[hive17]

Great, now i have to root for the Dodgers JUST so i can witness the high comedy and call-outs that will ensue after a Philly loss.

He's just a typical Philly fans guys. He actually makes us "Prince Fielder for MVP" guys seem a little less retarded by comparison.

 

[Y4NK335]

Ha, did anyone see who is at #17 on this list??

Yes he would, and fairly easily..This is not gospel, but I cant think of a better measure for HOF worthiness...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... itor.shtml

Yea, Mr. Derek Jeter. If your hatred is too great to realize he is one of the best players for this generation then let me help you:

2138 G
2747 H
224 HR
1068 RBI
305 SB
.317 BA
.388 OBP

7 Top 10 MVP votes
1 Rookie of the Year
4 World Series Rings
1 World Series MVP
All-Star games and GG's are irrelevant for this.

EDIT: I see what you mean 17 is pretty high on the list compared to some HOFers that are lower. I thought it was a different measurement at first, but either way Jeter is a superb hitter of this generation. The no steroid allegations probably help too. I thought this was just another Jeter bashing.

 

[studioclint]

Ha, did anyone see who is at #17 on this list??

Yes he would, and fairly easily..This is not gospel, but I cant think of a better measure for HOF worthiness...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... itor.shtml

Yea, Mr. Derek Jeter. If your hatred is too great to realize he is one of the best players for this generation then let me help you:

2138 G
2747 H
224 HR
1068 RBI
305 SB
.317 BA
.388 OBP

7 Top 10 MVP votes
1 Rookie of the Year
4 World Series Rings
1 World Series MVP
All-Star games and GG's are irrelevant for this.

And we have it. The only way to make this thread worse is turning it into a Derek Jeter thread also.

 

[ryanhoward06]

Great, now i have to root for the Dodgers JUST so i can witness the high comedy and call-outs that will ensue after a Philly loss.

He's just a typical Philly fans guys. He actually makes us "Prince Fielder for MVP" guys seem a little less retarded by comparison.

I'm one of the biggest Howard fans out there and I would have him fourth or third in voting. Pujols, Fielder, and either Howard or Tulo.

No need to hate a team because of one fool running around mouthing off.

And besides, this really is all just bonus for Phillies fans. After this series will still be champions for a week.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

This entire post-----

::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::


When I first heard of the ignore button on this site, I figured I would NEVER use it.......EVER

This week alone, I am now using it for the 2nd time...


TK

 

[jbhofmann]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... itor.shtml[/url][/quoteftpludf]

According to that, I think you are correct. He probably would make it in. I am not afraid to man up and admit I was wrong about that statement. [/quoteftpludf]



No need to admit you were wrong. If Pujols were to never play again he wouldn't make the HOF.

For one, he's only played 9 years. You need 10 to be eligible for the HOF.[/quoteftpludf]


This guy didn't. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paigesa01.shtml

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... itor.shtml[/url][/quote:3gg3r8k6]

According to that, I think you are correct. He probably would make it in. I am not afraid to man up and admit I was wrong about that statement. [/quote:3gg3r8k6]



No need to admit you were wrong. If Pujols were to never play again he wouldn't make the HOF.

For one, he's only played 9 years. You need 10 to be eligible for the HOF.[/quote:3gg3r8k6]


This guy didn't. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paigesa01.shtml[/quote:3gg3r8k6]


You need to understand that prior to his few major league season, he was a seasoned ***** League player, and he was actually voted into the HOF in 1971 by the ***** League Committee....

TK

 

[jbhofmann]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jossad01.shtml?redir

And that guy.

 

[jbhofmann]

I understand that very well. But the rule does state per the HOF website "Major League" seasons.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jossad01.shtml?redir

And that guy.

Special story about him....he was voted into the HOF by the Veterans Committee in 1978 and even though he only pitched 9 season, he had 160 wins in that short of a span. Tragically he passed away from an illness at only 31...


TK

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

I understand that very well. But the rule does state per the HOF website "Major League" seasons.

From the HOF website, to help you out...

"Under special circumstances, certain players may be deemed eligible for induction even though they have not met all requirements. This resulted in the induction of Addie Joss, who was elected in 1978 despite only playing in nine seasons due to his death from meningitis. Additionally, if an otherwise eligible player dies before his fifth year of retirement, then that player may be placed on the ballot at the first election at least six months after his death. Roberto Clemente's induction in 1973 set the precedent when the writers chose to put him up for consideration after his death on New Year's Eve, 1972."