Ryan Howard > Albert Pujols

[Codasco07]

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/10 ... #more-2774

 

[jbhofmann]

I understand that very well. But the rule does state per the HOF website "Major League" seasons.

From the HOF website, to help you out...

"Under special circumstances, certain players may be deemed eligible for induction even though they have not met all requirements. This resulted in the induction of Addie Joss, who was elected in 1978 despite only playing in nine seasons due to his death from meningitis. Additionally, if an otherwise eligible player dies before his fifth year of retirement, then that player may be placed on the ballot at the first election at least six months after his death. Roberto Clemente's induction in 1973 set the precedent when the writers chose to put him up for consideration after his death on New Year's Eve, 1972."

No let me help you. The discussion shifted to whether Pujols would be a lock after 9 years even though the Hall needs 10 years of service. I am simply stating that if Pujols were to be done today for whatever reason (death,illness,early retirement, mission trip, etc.), even at only 9 seasons, they would find a way to get him into the HOF just like Leroy and Joss.

Even though I was the one who gave the examples, you try to "help me out" by telling me things that I basically already stated if you read the links.

Thanks.

 

[predatorkj]

To the OP, what were you on when you made this post? Pujols will always be better than Howard. Pujols doesn't strikeout 200 times in one year.

And most likely never will in his entire life either.

I think the OP just wants to say that Ryan Howard is a good player in the playoffs?Maybe that is what he was thinking.Now...that can be done without trying to drag another player through the mud.The question I have is...if you are trying to tear someone else down...why go for the biggest and best player?If you are looking for a fight...do you normally go up to the biggest and strongest guy and punch him in the face?Uh...no...you'd get your ass kicked.Howard gets his ass kicked, statistically ,all over the board when it comes down to it.Even if we are just considering the playoffs.

And if I recall correctly...Howard isn't exactly clutch.I think Shane and Chase a little clutchier than Howard.

 

[predatorkj]

Ill stand by my statment, I would rather have Howard at the plate in the 9th down runs before I would have
Albert at the plate in a game played tomorrow.

funny no one mentioned the roids accusation, I guess having a head the size of Bonds is just genetics?

Actually the last player was so venemently defended on the old beckett message boards was Barry Bonds.

I bet in 2001 he was "compared" to Mantle, Dimaggio and Foxx!

Thats all

Kevin

Dude...I absolutely hate Pujols when he is up at the plate and the cards are down a couple of runs.You know why?Because I saw him basically screw Brad Lidge's career up single handedly.Seriously...Lidge never was and never has been the same since.I saw him do that a few times.Down here...its legend.Nobody that plays for the Phillies has done that.Pujols is a beast.He is the most clutch hitter I have ever seen and trust me...I say that out of disdain.Not out of favoritism.I admire both him and Howard.But its not even a contest.

I wonder...are the Phillies fans getting as bad as the yankees fans?

As for steroids...what makes Howard not suspect?In this day and age...everyone is suspect because of the crisis we have seen.As good of a hitter as Pujols is(which can be derived from his hitting stats) don't you think if he was on the juice, somebody with his size and eye for the ball would be hitting way more homers than he is?Because if you are saying he is on the juice...the only thing I can think of is he is half assing it so he doesn't get too much attention.And that would be really insane.What would be the point.It would be like robbing a bank but never spending any of the money for fear of being caught.Why rob the bank then?

 

[predatorkj]

With or without anything, Bonds is not only campared to Mantle, Dimaggio, and Foxx, he was far better!

Bonds was nothing but an above average player without roids and I will always remember him for sitting on
his wallet in left field costing the Giants a WS ring! I bet Mantle could of thrown out Sid Bream at home!

Now I know you're just stirring the pot. :lol:

 

[allstars]

Ill stand by my statment, I would rather have Howard at the plate in the 9th down runs before I would have
Albert at the plate in a game played tomorrow.

funny no one mentioned the roids accusation, I guess having a head the size of Bonds is just genetics?

Actually the last player was so venemently defended on the old beckett message boards was Barry Bonds.

I bet in 2001 he was "compared" to Mantle, Dimaggio and Foxx!

Thats all

Kevin

Dude...I absolutely hate Pujols when he is up at the plate and the cards are down a couple of runs.You know why?Because I saw him basically screw Brad Lidge's career up single handedly.Seriously...Lidge never was and never has been the same since.I saw him do that a few times.Down here...its legend.Nobody that plays for the Phillies has done that.Pujols is a beast.He is the most clutch hitter I have ever seen and trust me...I say that out of disdain.Not out of favoritism.I admire both him and Howard.But its not even a contest.

I wonder...are the Phillies fans getting as bad as the yankees fans?

As for steroids...what makes Howard not suspect?In this day and age...everyone is suspect because of the crisis we have seen.As good of a hitter as Pujols is(which can be derived from his hitting stats) don't you think if he was on the juice, somebody with his size and eye for the ball would be hitting way more homers than he is?Because if you are saying he is on the juice...the only thing I can think of is he is half assing it so he doesn't get too much attention.And that would be really insane.What would be the point.It would be like robbing a bank but never spending any of the money for fear of being caught.Why rob the bank then?

You don't think RH has been tested numerous times for steroids? Rest-assured, he has. He lost like 35 pounds this past off-season, try doing that on steroids...

 

[predatorkj]

Ill stand by my statment, I would rather have Howard at the plate in the 9th down runs before I would have
Albert at the plate in a game played tomorrow.

funny no one mentioned the roids accusation, I guess having a head the size of Bonds is just genetics?

Actually the last player was so venemently defended on the old beckett message boards was Barry Bonds.

I bet in 2001 he was "compared" to Mantle, Dimaggio and Foxx!

Thats all

Kevin

Dude...I absolutely hate Pujols when he is up at the plate and the cards are down a couple of runs.You know why?Because I saw him basically screw Brad Lidge's career up single handedly.Seriously...Lidge never was and never has been the same since.I saw him do that a few times.Down here...its legend.Nobody that plays for the Phillies has done that.Pujols is a beast.He is the most clutch hitter I have ever seen and trust me...I say that out of disdain.Not out of favoritism.I admire both him and Howard.But its not even a contest.

I wonder...are the Phillies fans getting as bad as the yankees fans?

As for steroids...what makes Howard not suspect?In this day and age...everyone is suspect because of the crisis we have seen.As good of a hitter as Pujols is(which can be derived from his hitting stats) don't you think if he was on the juice, somebody with his size and eye for the ball would be hitting way more homers than he is?Because if you are saying he is on the juice...the only thing I can think of is he is half assing it so he doesn't get too much attention.And that would be really insane.What would be the point.It would be like robbing a bank but never spending any of the money for fear of being caught.Why rob the bank then?

You don't think RH has been tested numerous times for steroids? Rest-assured, he has. He lost like 35 pounds this past off-season, try doing that on steroids...

And Pujols was never tested?Your point doesn't really answer the question or do anything to prove that everyone isn't a suspect now.Because they all are.

And I am not sure if you can lose weight on steroids but uh...you know...A-Rod isn't exactly a Titan either.He's pretty slender for a roid taker no?

In any case...I don't care to call either of them out for roids because it has nothing to do with the debate at hand.I was simply asking a question.I am not sure why the OP chose to go in that direction in the first place.

It still doesn't help his argument.I don't think anything in this thread has helped his argument.

 

[allstars]

I never said anything about AP being on roids.

 

[predatorkj]

I never said anything about AP being on roids.

I never said you did.

 

[RCRX]

bring on the stats!

Howard is in the NLCS

and pujols is on the couch.

DID NOTHING when they needed him.

Howard benifits also from Having Utley and Rollins..Pujols has who?? Izturis, Eckstein, Shumaker, Ryan..C'mon...Give Phat Albert Utley and Rollins hitting around him and we can talk.. its not even close.. you take Howard and I will stick with the BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW..
BTW.. I would lay money that Albert and Ryan are clean..Howard just seems like to smart of a guy to do something that stupid.

 

[bongo870]

wow. I cant believe I read this entire thread or why the MOD has let it go on this long.
I am a HUGE Phillies fan and have been in many battles like this. But some people just take it too far.
Howard is a great home run hitter. One of the best out there now. Not only was he the fastest to hit 100 or 150 home runs in (X) amount of games but 200 also. That says a lot for a player. He also lead the league in RBI's this year and came in 3rd in home runs. I would be embarrassed if I was Pujols that if a player that can strike out almost 200 times a year and have more rbis. and 2 less home runs that he had.
Howard was brought up not for his fielding but for his home runs. That's all.
Lets look at the post season. Howard leads the league in RBI's. Is that a bad player?
Howard also was League MVP for August. Is that a bad player?

I am tiered of people coming down on Howard because they compare him to Pujols. yes Pujols is better all around But Howard does shine better in some categories than Pujols.

And what I love the best is the what if's. What if Pujols had this and what if Howard had that. That is all speculation.
Howard is a great player and so is Pujols. NO ONE is the best player in the world. There have been greats of the game but how can you sit there and say one person is the best of all?

 

[Jeff D]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jossad01.shtml?redir

And that guy.

Yes, I'm familiar with Addie Joss. See, for example, my avatar.

I think the circumstances in which Pujols retired would be a MAJOR factor in whether the Hall decides to make an exception.

If he's arrested and convicted of murdering his wife, I don't think he makes it in. If he dies of meningitis, he may.

If it's something in between, imo he's not a lock.

Point was, he's not eligible by the rules of the HOF. Exceptions aside.

 

[SINFULONE]

Pujols hasn't been clutch since 04

Ha, this is getting good!Your post should have read:
===========================================
Pujols hasn't been clutch since 04

Sincerely,

Brad Lidge

 

[Austin]

Howard benifits also from Having Utley and Rollins..
Pujols has who?? Izturis, Eckstein, Shumaker, Ryan..C'mon...

Have you ever heard of Matt Holliday, the all-star player who hit .313 with 24 homers and 109 rbi this season?
He hits behind Pujols.
Or Ryan Ludwick, who hit 22 homers with 97 rbi this season?
He hits behind Holliday.
Now regarding this thread, I have no comment, because there are so many idiotic statements involved.

 

[Lars]

Ryan Howard is a power hitter - if you want pure power on display - you watch him.

Albert Pujols can hit for power - if you want to see the best all-around player in baseball today - you watch him.

It is kind of unfair to compare Howard to Pujols however - Pujols is a once in a generation talent.

Howard however is an all-star performer in his own right - a definite star.

Howard is unique because he broke into the Major Leagues as an older prospect - I think if the Philadelphia Phillies had listened to Howard's detractors even more, he'd be no-better than a part-timer or a guy who was going to earn a professional baseball paycheck as a AAAA player.

 

[darkman]

:lol: I cannot believe this thread... The only person that would rather have Howard at the plate over Pujols is the opposing pitcher... ::facepalm::

 

[darocker80]

Howard benifits also from Having Utley and Rollins..
Pujols has who?? Izturis, Eckstein, Shumaker, Ryan..C'mon...

Have you ever heard of Matt Holliday, the all-star player who hit .313 with 24 homers and 109 rbi this season?
He hits behind Pujols.
Or Ryan Ludwick, who hit 22 homers with 97 rbi this season?
He hits behind Holliday.
Now regarding this thread, I have no comment, because there are so many idiotic statements involved.

or Mark Derosa who had 24 HR and 90+ rbis

 

[predatorkj]

wow. I cant believe I read this entire thread or why the MOD has let it go on this long.
I am a HUGE Phillies fan and have been in many battles like this. But some people just take it too far.
Howard is a great home run hitter. One of the best out there now. Not only was he the fastest to hit 100 or 150 home runs in (X) amount of games but 200 also. That says a lot for a player. He also lead the league in RBI's this year and came in 3rd in home runs. I would be embarrassed if I was Pujols that if a player that can strike out almost 200 times a year and have more rbis. and 2 less home runs that he had.
Howard was brought up not for his fielding but for his home runs. That's all.
Lets look at the post season. Howard leads the league in RBI's. Is that a bad player?
Howard also was League MVP for August. Is that a bad player?

I am tiered of people coming down on Howard because they compare him to Pujols. yes Pujols is better all around But Howard does shine better in some categories than Pujols.

And what I love the best is the what if's. What if Pujols had this and what if Howard had that. That is all speculation.
Howard is a great player and so is Pujols. NO ONE is the best player in the world. There have been greats of the game but how can you sit there and say one person is the best of all?

Yeah but nobody said Howard was bad.He just doesn't stack up to Pujols.Pujols is a better hitter.I am not really sure why people continue to argue this.I mean...when you're wrong ...you're wrong.

 

[NYCrulesU]

You tards are still trying to convince yourselves Howard is better than Pujols 8 pages later? Wow. I heard of being thickheaded, but this takes the cake. ::facepalm::


To the uber tard who wants to argue Howard is better because he has more RBI's and because of that Pujols should be embarassed. Ummm, Howard how AS talent in front of him getting on base in the form of Rollins, Victorino and Utley. Thus RBI's. Pujol has had Schumaker/Rasmus or Schumaker/Ryan in front of him. 'Nuff said.

 

[RL24]

wow. I cant believe I read this entire thread or why the MOD has let it go on this long.
I am a HUGE Phillies fan and have been in many battles like this. But some people just take it too far.
Howard is a great home run hitter. One of the best out there now. Not only was he the fastest to hit 100 or 150 home runs in (X) amount of games but 200 also. That says a lot for a player. He also lead the league in RBI's this year and came in 3rd in home runs. I would be embarrassed if I was Pujols that if a player that can strike out almost 200 times a year and have more rbis. and 2 less home runs that he had.
Howard was brought up not for his fielding but for his home runs. That's all.
Lets look at the post season. Howard leads the league in RBI's. Is that a bad player?
Howard also was League MVP for August. Is that a bad player?

I am tiered of people coming down on Howard because they compare him to Pujols. yes Pujols is better all around But Howard does shine better in some categories than Pujols.

And what I love the best is the what if's. What if Pujols had this and what if Howard had that. That is all speculation.
Howard is a great player and so is Pujols. NO ONE is the best player in the world. There have been greats of the game but how can you sit there and say one person is the best of all?

I think you are underestimating the power of not striking out. It's sort of one of those intangibles people are always talking about. If there is a runner on second with no outs, and you ground out and move him to third with one out... that's a very valuable play. If you struck out, the runner would still be on second with one out. Statistically, you both are 0-1 with no RBIs, but the ground out was a good out and the strike out was a bad out. While there is no stat showing who made "good outs" and who made "bad outs", it's ok because smart people can gauge this to an extent by looking at a different stat- strike outs.

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