So HOW LOW are the Five Star boxes going to fall?

[uniquebaseballcards]

You have provided nothing but links to wikipedia that don't back-up your point and in some cases, back my point up (specifically in your Donruss, where it says that MLB, NOT the market, took DLP out of the baseball card business).

I have the history of wht actually happened backing me up; YOU have your silly predictions of what WOULD have happened, and unsupported claims "backing you up".

Again, I can't remember a time that so much fail was accomplished so effortlessly.

This is all above your head, you continue to miss details. The article specifically says DLP stayed in the baseball card market after it lost its license. We all know this.

Until you take the complete list of manufacturers I provided and list how and when they stopped operating independently you're just aimlessly yammering.

 

[hive17]

This is all above your head, you continue to miss details. The article specifically says DLP stayed in the baseball card market after it lost its license. We all know this.

Until you take the complete list of manufacturers I provided and list how and when they stopped operating independently you're just aimlessly yammering.

Your list consists of companies that made bad products and failed, or didn't stop making MLB cards until the MLB took thier license away. No where do your examples flesh out the point that too many releases was the cause of thier demise (again, if there was one). Now, thanks to a narrow view shared by roughly you and MLB, Topps and ONLY Topps, is free to put out total crap with ZERO market correction, except for the market shrinking (good call morons).

Allow me to rephrase my question, since you're re-structuring your argument: what stopped DLP from putting out MLB cards after 2005 and Upper Deck after 2009? Was it the market, as you assert, or was it MLB taking their licenses and creating a monopoly for Topps.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You mean when Pinnacle filed for bankruptcy in 1998? So? Playoff Corp. bought the line and they went right back to making stuff. And they didn't stop until the MLB took their license away after 2005. NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING about DLP losing their license in 2005 had to do with your insane claim that the market was falling apart. In fact, DLP had JUST put out the greatest modern release (2005 Absolute Update).

So, I'll make this an easy question that I want you to respond to: Did MLB limit the number of brands allowed in the market, or did the market?

Simple question.

Donruss and/or its parent company had been bankrupt and/or sold five times since it started making cards in '81 which is about once every five years.

Absolute Update, as knowledgeable people know, was simply a DUMP of inventory given it knew it wasn't going to be able to use it in the future.

If DLP was financially strong or perhaps even STABLE it would still be around today but it couldn't compete in a "fragmented and confusing" marketplace collectors complained about (see article).

Why would a licensor wanting to grow and protect its image and associated product want to chose a weak licensee?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Your list consists of companies that made bad products and failed, or didn't stop making MLB cards until the MLB took thier license away. No where do your examples flesh out the point that too many releases was the cause of thier demise (again, if there was one). Now, thanks to a narrow view shared by roughly you and MLB, Topps and ONLY Topps, is free to put out total crap with ZERO market correction, except for the market shrinking (good call morons).

Allow me to rephrase my question, since you're re-structuring your argument: what stopped DLP from putting out MLB cards after 2005 and Upper Deck after 2009? Was it the market, as you assert, or was it MLB taking their licenses and creating a monopoly for Topps.

No. My very consistent message has been all the failed manufacturers were financially unable or unwilling to compete in an overly saturated marketplace that couldn't support them. The two (weaker) manufacturers DLP and UD that remained from that fairly lengthy list had to be put down to give the market an opportunity to stabilize and grow. They were simply unable to compete.

If they had more money they'd be here because this is all a business. Doesn't matter where their support was missing, it wasn't there.

This is all self-evident... the strong survive the weak don't. And here we are.

 

[hive17]

Donruss and/or its parent company had been bankrupt and/or sold five times since it started making cards in '81 which is about once every five years. There is no proof that it was because of the market. There is evidence of successful companies buying other successful companies and continuing that success. Donruss was only sold ONCE because of bankruptcy (in 1998); you are once again incorrectly conflating being sold with failing, and you're still wrong.

Absolute Update, as knowledgeable people know, was simply a DUMP of inventory given it knew it wasn't going to be able to use it in the future. You're thinking of Donruss Champions; so I'm not going to count you amnongst the "knowledgable". 2005 Absolute Update is widely viewed as the greatest modern set; ask anyone outside of your head.

If DLP was financially strong or perhaps even STABLE it would still be around today but it couldn't compete in a "fragmented and confusing" marketplace collectors complained about (see article). It can't can't make MLB cards because MLB took away their license. If anything, MLB delt a blow to DLP by doing so. But DLP being bought by Panini Corp. had nothing to do with DLP's ability to put out good products; on the contrary, Panini wanted DLP's good name and cache.

Why would a licensor wanting to grow and protect its image and associated product want to chose a weak licensee? The only thing saying DLP was weak is your terrible argument

So, now, answer my question: was it the market or MLB that lost DLP its license?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

So, now, answer my question: was it the market or MLB that lost DLP its license?

See the post immediately above ^^^

 

[sportscardtheory]

lol This guy is holding his hands over his ears saying "nah nah nah nah nah nah". Funny stuff.

 

[hive17]

No. My very consistent message has been all the failed manufacturers were financially unable or unwilling to compete in an overly saturated marketplace that couldn't support them. The two (weaker) manufacturers DLP and UD that remained from that fairly lengthy list had to be put down to give the market an opportunity to stabilize and grow. They were simply unable to compete.

No. Wrong. They were told the COULDN'T compete. And you can drink MLB's Kool-Aid all you want that there were "customer complaints", but the fact is, no monopoly in history has lead to higher quality. The current crap that Topps puts out (see: the OP about 5-Star) is a result of MLB playing favorites and making the wrong call (not in who they chose, but that they chose at all).

 

[notjomommasclint]

Topps isn't a monopoly it's an oligopoly.

 

[Austin]

Topps isn't a monopoly it's an oligopoly.

A company can't be an oligopoly. (unless you're being facetious by saying all of Topps' brands dominate the market, which is true)
An oligopoly is when an industry or market is dominated by a small group of companies.

 

[jbhofmann]

Blowout is supposed to have them at $375 for Black Friday.

 

[cgilmo]

Fcb has one for $0


Therefore 0

 

[jbhofmann]

Fcb has one for $0


Therefore 0

I'll take it.

 

[DeliciousBacon]

I'll take it.

Here's your box: Mike Napoli, Dave Kingman, and George Bell autos; CJ Wilson Relic; Dan Uggla Auto Relic; and a Ralph Kiner base card. That might be the worst you can from a box of this stuff.

 

[hive17]

The are at $369 on Blow out right now.

 

[thefatguy]

The are at $369 on Blow out right now.

You might say, the Blowout has begun

 

[allstars]

They cant go much lower, otherwise people holding them will just start busting them.

 

[jbhofmann]

They cant go much lower, otherwise people holding them will just start busting them.

People holding them = allstars

 

[BBCgalaxee]

Realistically, can they go under 300?
Thats $200 under srp, on a very new product.

Either way, hovering $150 under srp a few weeks after release shows what the hobby thinks of it.

 

[morgoth]

Realistically, can they go under 300?
Thats $200 under srp, on a very new product.

Either way, hovering $150 under srp a few weeks after release shows what the hobby thinks of it.

With tons of the A hits selling for 30 bucks its really hard to justify busting this stuff for the price. Sandberg and Hamilton autos selling under 40 bucks pretty tough to make your money back