So who you got tomorrow getting in the HOF?

[ChasHawk]

Not that I didn't think Bagwell was good, but he wouldn't even make my top 10 for 1B.

He'd have to get past Greenburg, Murray, McCovey, Killebrew, Carew, Sisler.

 

[wolfpackonly]

Larkin I feel is a lock, bagwell may get close, hard call to make.

 

[MOFNY]

Edgar Martinez deserves it.

 

[jbhofmann]

Just trying to add a couple more things that may have not been said:

-Larkin's 9 Silver Sluggers are only eclipsed by two people; ARod and Bonds.
-He's a hometown (Moeller) product that played his entire career in his hometown.
-First 30HR/30SB Shortstop.
-Greatly underrated defensively due to his peer at the time (Ozzie). I've said it before, but if Larkin did backflips when introduced (which I'd bet he could), he would have been a 1st ballot guy.

 

[Crash Davis]

Not that I didn't think Bagwell was good, but he wouldn't even make my top 10 for 1B.

He'd have to get past Greenburg, Murray, McCovey, Killebrew, Carew, Sisler.

A couple of points of contention:

1) it's Greenberg and not Greenburg (so annoying...like McGuire or Ripkin: you'd think after all the years and discussions, and the fact he's THE greatest Jewish baseball player of all time, people would actually spell him name correctly); and,

2) Bagwell put up far better career numbers than Killebrew with the exception of HRs, so the fact that you consider Killer above Bagwell is questionable, at best - In fact, other than HRs, guys who apparently can't get a whiff of the HOF like Bagwell and Fred McGriff had better statistical credentials.

 

[Pinbreaker]

I think Larkin gets in.. maybe Bagwell..

Here is how the MLB.com guys voted.. pretty good read and why they selected who they did vote for..

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120108&content_id=26288362&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

[19braves77]

A lot of these people need to get in before 2014. If Larkin doesn't do it this year, he might be waiting awhile.

 

[JzWand]

The guy I would for sure pick:

Jack Morris
250 wins
3 x 20 win seasons
11 x 10+ complete game seasons (very impressive)
5 top 5 cy young seasons
4 world series

Honestly I really liked Bagwell during his career but I personally believe he was using some sort of PED and I think a lot of sportswriters do as well.

So if they are not putting in Raffy or McGwire, I dont see them putting in Bagwell even though to my knowledge their is no confirmed positive test in his case.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[gmarutiak]

Fearless prediction: Bagwell gets in, then admits to taking PEDs as part of his induction speech. Bud Selig's head immediately explodes.

 

[Crash Davis]

The guy I would for sure pick:

Jack Morris
250 wins
3 x 20 win seasons
11 x 10+ complete game seasons (very impressive)
5 top 5 cy young seasons
4 world series

Honestly I really liked Bagwell during his career but I personally believe he was using some sort of PED and I think a lot of sportswriters do as well.

So if they are not putting in Raffy or McGwire, I dont see them putting in Bagwell even though to my knowledge their is no confirmed positive test in his case.

Just my thoughts on it.

And exactly why do you think he was using a PED?

When you make a statement like that, at least back it up with either facts or why you have formed such an opinion.

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


I'm NOT ready! I dont have an on card auto or auto baseball of any of the frontrunners!!!!!

Ugh! ::facepalm::

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

The guy I would for sure pick:

Jack Morris
250 wins
3 x 20 win seasons
11 x 10+ complete game seasons (very impressive)
5 top 5 cy young seasons
4 world series

Honestly I really liked Bagwell during his career but I personally believe he was using some sort of PED and I think a lot of sportswriters do as well.

So if they are not putting in Raffy or McGwire, I dont see them putting in Bagwell even though to my knowledge their is no confirmed positive test in his case.

Just my thoughts on it.

And exactly why do you think he was using a PED?

When you make a statement like that, at least back it up with either facts or why you have formed such an opinion.

Most people that I have spoken with have formed said opinion on a basic fact: Bagwell was thin as a reed and had very little power when he came up. He then popeyed-up and starting hitting jacks. This was a Jose Canseco-like transformation. Does it mean that he irrefutably took roids? Nope. Does it raise plenty of suspicion? Yep.

Also, it is a favorite technique around here to compare recent players to Killebrew (see Adam Dunn discussions), but Killebrew simply played in a different era. Check the two players' Black Ink and Grey Ink on baseball-reference to see what I mean.

 

[JzWand]

When you make a statement like that, at least back it up with either facts or why you have formed such an opinion.

The only reason I didn't is because I dont wish to get into a pissing match with some of his diehard fans.

Let me first say I am a fan of Bagwell and I actually do think he should be in the HOF just like McGwire and Raffy.

With that said I do believe he used them.

I believe a few Astros (Steve Finley and Ken Caminiti namely) used them.

He played in a era where a lot of players used something either to battle injury, get good enough to be a regular, or to keep up with others who were using and pulling away in terms of stats.

He looks alot smaller now (closer to when he first came up) compared to his peak playing years

Again I dont have proof and even if I did I would still put him in.
I was just saying that some people who also think he may have used may decide not to vote him in.

I wish Bagwell nothing but the best as he always came off as a great guy.

But thats my opinion.

 

[19braves77]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


I'm NOT ready! I dont have an on card auto or auto baseball of any of the frontrunners!!!!!

Ugh! ::facepalm::

None of them are considered tough.

 

[MaineMule]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I'm NOT ready! I dont have an on card auto or auto baseball of any of the frontrunners!!!!!

Ugh! ::facepalm::

None of them are considered tough.

........ Joe, the truth hurts :lol: :lol:

I'm guessing you'll only be going after Larkin after today's announcement.........

 

[jbhofmann]

Jayson Stark's take:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof12/story/_/id/7434381/jayson-stark-baseball-hall-fame-ballot

 

[Crash Davis]

[quote="Crash Davis":adomr40g]

The guy I would for sure pick:

Jack Morris
250 wins
3 x 20 win seasons
11 x 10+ complete game seasons (very impressive)
5 top 5 cy young seasons
4 world series

Honestly I really liked Bagwell during his career but I personally believe he was using some sort of PED and I think a lot of sportswriters do as well.

So if they are not putting in Raffy or McGwire, I dont see them putting in Bagwell even though to my knowledge their is no confirmed positive test in his case.

Just my thoughts on it.

And exactly why do you think he was using a PED?

When you make a statement like that, at least back it up with either facts or why you have formed such an opinion.

Most people that I have spoken with have formed said opinion on a basic fact: Bagwell was thin as a reed and had very little power when he came up. He then popeyed-up and starting hitting jacks. This was a Jose Canseco-like transformation. Does it mean that he irrefutably took roids? Nope. Does it raise plenty of suspicion? Yep.

Also, it is a favorite technique around here to compare recent players to Killebrew (see Adam Dunn discussions), but Killebrew simply played in a different era. Check the two players' Black Ink and Grey Ink on baseball-reference to see what I mean.[/quote:adomr40g]

I would love to know the credentials of these people you spoke with. Were they sportswriters or peers of Mr. Bagwell's?

As for Killebrew - the guy had a lifetime batting average of .256. What part of that putrid lifetime average had anything to do with a generational gap? Do I think that he is a Hall of Famer - yes. Do I think that you can write-off the 41 point differential in career batting average based on the fact that they played in different eras? OF COURSE NOT.

 

[klute14]

Where is the love for Lee Arthur Smith???
Are you kidding me? Compare him to Sutter, Gossage and Fingers and you will see that he belongs.

Just a small taste of my Lee Smith collection.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":u6xaaqus][quote="Crash Davis":u6xaaqus]

The guy I would for sure pick:

Jack Morris
250 wins
3 x 20 win seasons
11 x 10+ complete game seasons (very impressive)
5 top 5 cy young seasons
4 world series

Honestly I really liked Bagwell during his career but I personally believe he was using some sort of PED and I think a lot of sportswriters do as well.

So if they are not putting in Raffy or McGwire, I dont see them putting in Bagwell even though to my knowledge their is no confirmed positive test in his case.

Just my thoughts on it.

And exactly why do you think he was using a PED?

When you make a statement like that, at least back it up with either facts or why you have formed such an opinion.

Most people that I have spoken with have formed said opinion on a basic fact: Bagwell was thin as a reed and had very little power when he came up. He then popeyed-up and starting hitting jacks. This was a Jose Canseco-like transformation. Does it mean that he irrefutably took roids? Nope. Does it raise plenty of suspicion? Yep.

Also, it is a favorite technique around here to compare recent players to Killebrew (see Adam Dunn discussions), but Killebrew simply played in a different era. Check the two players' Black Ink and Grey Ink on baseball-reference to see what I mean.[/quote:u6xaaqus]

I would love to know the credentials of these people you spoke with. Were they sportswriters or peers of Mr. Bagwell's?

As for Killebrew - the guy had a lifetime batting average of .256. What part of that putrid lifetime average had anything to do with a generational gap? Do I think that he is a Hall of Famer - yes. Do I think that you can write-off the 41 point differential in career batting average based on the fact that they played in different eras? OF COURSE NOT.[/quote:u6xaaqus]

Credentials? The same as yours, I suppose. What do you think the more than 50% of writers who didn't put him on their ballots last year would say? I'd bet the same thing.

Oh, and we could ask his peers. I'd particularly like to ask Caminiti, but that ain't happening.

Look, I would wager serious money that he took roids. and I would vote for him if I had a vote.

He will get in eventually.

 

[matfanofold]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.