So who you got tomorrow getting in the HOF?

[ChasHawk]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.

 

[ChasHawk]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I'm NOT ready! I dont have an on card auto or auto baseball of any of the frontrunners!!!!!
Ugh! ::facepalm::

I wouldn't worry Joe, and I wouldn't buy right away. There will be a very temporary spike.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

J. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

These are not the only two choices. We can remove the conjecture altogether by taking away any consideration of PED use from that of the HOF. Pretty easy, really.

 

[matfanofold]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 074145.jpg

Very calm, cool, and collective thank you!

I am just slightly saddened by some who intend to crucify on speculation. Without a doubt the same bunch who would cry the loudest if they were being found guilty based on fruitless speculation.

These are not the only two choices. We can remove the conjecture altogether by taking away any consideration of PED use from that of the HOF. Pretty easy, really.

Very good point, not necessairly one I agree with, but valid none the less!

 

[ChasHawk]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 074145.jpg

Very calm, cool, and collective thank you!

I am just slightly saddened by some who intend to crucify on speculation. Without a doubt the same bunch who would cry the loudest if they were being found guilty based on fruitless speculation.

Is there any "proof" that Barry Bonds took PEDs? How about Gagne? Sammy Sosa? Juan Gonzalez?

 

[matfanofold]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 074145.jpg

Very calm, cool, and collective thank you!

I am just slightly saddened by some who intend to crucify on speculation. Without a doubt the same bunch who would cry the loudest if they were being found guilty based on fruitless speculation.

Is there any "proof" that Barry Bonds took PEDs? How about Gagne? Sammy Sosa? Juan Gonzalez?

Very good questions, and ones that can easily be answered!

But out of mild interest, I must ask.... Did you have a point?

 

[Crash Davis]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 074145.jpg

Very calm, cool, and collective thank you!

I am just slightly saddened by some who intend to crucify on speculation. Without a doubt the same bunch who would cry the loudest if they were being found guilty based on fruitless speculation.

Is there any "proof" that Barry Bonds took PEDs? How about Gagne? Sammy Sosa? Juan Gonzalez?

Gagne admitted to using steroids during his career. Do you need more proof than that? Bonds admitted to "unknowingly" taking a cream which turned out to be laced with steroids.

And that, my friends, is leaps and bounds more incriminating than anything anybody has on Jeff Bagwell at this point.

Now, anybody is certainly entitled to their opinion; however, when their guilty verdict is based solely on conjecture, then we have a problem.

 

[ChasHawk]

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but there must be SOME reason why so many writers have suspicions about certain guys.

Whether Bagwell is on it or not, we still haven't seen 95% of the list of failed tests.

Crash, Bonds "admission" came from leaked grand jury testimony, and you ignore Sosa and Gonzalez...

 

[19braves77]

BP is doing a 2 hour before announcement chat and an hour afterwards for our enjoyment:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=888

 

[Crash Davis]

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but there must be SOME reason why so many writers have suspicions about certain guys.

Whether Bagwell is on it or not, we still haven't seen 95% of the list of failed tests.

Crash, Bonds "admission" came from leaked grand jury testimony, and you ignore Sosa and Gonzalez...

Irrespective of how Bonds admitted to using The Cream - he used it.

Funny how you ignored my response to Gagne, while you focused on my ignoring Sosa and Gonzalez :lol:

 

[ChasHawk]

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but there must be SOME reason why so many writers have suspicions about certain guys.

Whether Bagwell is on it or not, we still haven't seen 95% of the list of failed tests.

Crash, Bonds "admission" came from leaked grand jury testimony, and you ignore Sosa and Gonzalez...

Irrespective of how Bonds admitted to using The Cream - he used it.

Funny how you ignored my response to Gagne, while you focused on my ignoring Sosa and Gonzalez :lol:

By the way, following your Bonds logic...maybe Bagwell told a writer he used at some point, or somebody saw something in his bag/locker.

Do you guys really think that all the writers just "don't like" Bagwell or something?

 

[19braves77]

It will probably help if Biggio gets in first and mentions Bagwell in his speech which people expect him to do....Jeff Kent could also help. If Biggio doesn't get in next year, he will have to wait for a while......

 

[ChasHawk]

In a February 2010 interview with the Los Angeles Times, Gagne admitted that he had used HGH, saying that it was to recover from a knee injury

Hadn't read up on Gagne in a while...

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Just curious, but has there EVER been anything more than conjecture and mild speculation with regards to Bagwell and PED usage? If not, is this really all it takes now to vilify? Please, give me ANY players name you may think is above/beyond PED usage and I am 100% positive I can connect some dots atop of the 'he played in the PED era' tabloid header, and make the same conclusions. Point being, either we all start to respect the sancity of 'innocent until proven guilty' (exactly as you would like to be treated) or shut the Hall down all together.

The ramped speculation and damaging opinion being spewed by some here is just incredibly ignorant.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... 074145.jpg

Very calm, cool, and collective thank you!

I am just slightly saddened by some who intend to crucify on speculation. Without a doubt the same bunch who would cry the loudest if they were being found guilty based on fruitless speculation.

Is there any "proof" that Barry Bonds took PEDs? How about Gagne? Sammy Sosa? Juan Gonzalez?

Gagne admitted to using steroids during his career. Do you need more proof than that? Bonds admitted to "unknowingly" taking a cream which turned out to be laced with steroids.

And that, my friends, is leaps and bounds more incriminating than anything anybody has on Jeff Bagwell at this point.

Now, anybody is certainly entitled to their opinion; however, when their guilty verdict is based solely on conjecture, then we have a problem.

The problem here is that we are punishing people for being truthful.

Simple questions:

How do we know McGwire used steroids?

Should we let Sosa right in, as his numbers suggest we do? Why or why not?

 

[ChasHawk]

The problem here is that we are punishing people for being truthful.

Simple questions:

How do we know McGwire used steroids?

Should we let Sosa right in, as his numbers suggest we do? Why or why not?

So if you stab someone to death, but turn yourself in to police, they let you go?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

The problem here is that we are punishing people for being truthful.

Simple questions:

How do we know McGwire used steroids?

Should we let Sosa right in, as his numbers suggest we do? Why or why not?

So if you stab someone to death, but turn yourself in to police, they let you go?

They will certainly go a lot easier on you than if you run.

Wanna answer my questions?

 

[ChasHawk]

We know McGwire used because he finally admitted it, half-assedly as it was.

And my answer for Sosa, Gonzalez, et al is the same as Bagwell. There must be SOME reason the writers won't vote for these guys.

They were baseball's sweethearts for years, so I doubt there's just some conspiracy by a bunch of guys who just don't like Sammy Sosa and Jeff Bagwell.

 

[JustinVerlander35]

 

[Crash Davis]

We know McGwire used because he finally admitted it, half-assedly as it was.

And my answer for Sosa, Gonzalez, et al is the same as Bagwell. There must be SOME reason the writers won't vote for these guys.

They were baseball's sweethearts for years, so I doubt there's just some conspiracy by a bunch of guys who just don't like Sammy Sosa and Jeff Bagwell.

Simple explanation for Sosa - he's not eligible. LOL.

 

[elmalo]

There is PED doubt hanging around Bagwell.

And none around Larkin? I don't get it. They played in the same era. If Larkin has never been accused and Bagwell has never been accused and they played in the same era...what's the diff?

Well, when you type Barry Larkin into google, you get...
Barry Larkin stats
Barry Larkin Hall of Fame

When you type in Jeff Bagwell, you get...
Jeff Bagwell stats
Jeff Bagwell steroids

It's not like I have proof or an opinion, but there has been a LOT of suspicion around Bagwell for years.

And that's complete garbage. I'm not arguing with YOU, I just think it's crap that writers can ASSUME he took steroids b/c he played in that era. Yet, not once has there ever been a shred of evidence he was linked to steroids in any way. His name never appears on any report either.

And yet, here is one of the greatest hitting 1st baseman of all time. When we are talking about 1st baseman, there are only three others I would put ahead of him - Gehrig, Foxx, and Pujols.

it is crap. Everyone is suspect. So just vote in the best players. It is beyond rediculous that sportswriters are picking and chosing who they "suspect" may have or have not done anything. Either vote for the best players or dont vote for anyone at all bc no one knows who did what.