The Mets are paying Bobby Bonilla until 2035...

[Gwynn545]

If you want to live somewhere that pays everyone on an arbitrary "worth" system, I hear Cuba is taking new residents.

Actually, moving to Cuba is banned under the Trading With The Enemy Act. Visiting Cuba is off-limits for the majority of Americans.

 

[Therion]

I would love to create a sport where only the winners are compensated. Imagine how amazing boxing matches would be if only the winner received payment. Imagine a UFC match where only the winner was payed. Imagine how amazing every baseball, football, hockey and basketball game would be if the losing team didn't get paid for that game. You could still have contracts, but every loss loses you money from the contract.

Vince McMahon tried this. It was called the XFL. It failed miserably. Didn't even make it into a second season.

And by buying cardboard pictures of players, watching games on tv, attending games, buying caps and jerseys, etc all contribute to these salaries. If you hate how much they get paid, then stop supporting the system.

I can't remember one red cent I have spent in support of Bobby Bonilla and his contract. And even if I have supported the "system", it doesn't make it any less flawed. I like the sport of baseball, I'm not going to boycott it because mediocre players make insane amounts of money for doing nothing. It's just a messed up system. Anytime people make more than they are worth, something is very wrong.

They get paid what they are worth. Each player contributes to money generation. Without them, no money gets made by owners. If they were getting paid more than they helped generate, then their contracts would start to lower. It's simple economics. You might hate it but it's reality. Athletes get paid what they are worth. If you want to live somewhere that pays everyone on an arbitrary "worth" system, I hear Cuba is taking new residents.

If you honestly believe every person is worth exactly what they are being payed, I don't know what to tell you. It must be a perfect world you live in.

Wow. You're reading comprehension is...uhh...special. Where did I ever say such...nevermind. You're right. I'm wrong. Moving on.

 

[sportscardtheory]

[quote="sportscardtheory":332powqu]I would love to create a sport where only the winners are compensated. Imagine how amazing boxing matches would be if only the winner received payment. Imagine a UFC match where only the winner was payed. Imagine how amazing every baseball, football, hockey and basketball game would be if the losing team didn't get paid for that game. You could still have contracts, but every loss loses you money from the contract.

Vince McMahon tried this. It was called the XFL. It failed miserably. Didn't even make it into a second season.

And by buying cardboard pictures of players, watching games on tv, attending games, buying caps and jerseys, etc all contribute to these salaries. If you hate how much they get paid, then stop supporting the system.

I can't remember one red cent I have spent in support of Bobby Bonilla and his contract. And even if I have supported the "system", it doesn't make it any less flawed. I like the sport of baseball, I'm not going to boycott it because mediocre players make insane amounts of money for doing nothing. It's just a messed up system. Anytime people make more than they are worth, something is very wrong.

They get paid what they are worth. Each player contributes to money generation. Without them, no money gets made by owners. If they were getting paid more than they helped generate, then their contracts would start to lower. It's simple economics. You might hate it but it's reality. Athletes get paid what they are worth. If you want to live somewhere that pays everyone on an arbitrary "worth" system, I hear Cuba is taking new residents.

If you honestly believe every person is worth exactly what they are being payed, I don't know what to tell you. It must be a perfect world you live in.

Wow. You're reading comprehension is...uhh...special. Where did I ever say such...nevermind. You're right. I'm wrong. Moving on.[/quote:332powqu]

"They get paid what they are worth." - Your very words in this very quote. That's your argument. Not all that hard to comprehend. It's a pretty clear sentence.

 

[Therion]

[quote="Therion":1qy4u6tt][quote="sportscardtheory":1qy4u6tt]I would love to create a sport where only the winners are compensated. Imagine how amazing boxing matches would be if only the winner received payment. Imagine a UFC match where only the winner was payed. Imagine how amazing every baseball, football, hockey and basketball game would be if the losing team didn't get paid for that game. You could still have contracts, but every loss loses you money from the contract.

Vince McMahon tried this. It was called the XFL. It failed miserably. Didn't even make it into a second season.

And by buying cardboard pictures of players, watching games on tv, attending games, buying caps and jerseys, etc all contribute to these salaries. If you hate how much they get paid, then stop supporting the system.

I can't remember one red cent I have spent in support of Bobby Bonilla and his contract. And even if I have supported the "system", it doesn't make it any less flawed. I like the sport of baseball, I'm not going to boycott it because mediocre players make insane amounts of money for doing nothing. It's just a messed up system. Anytime people make more than they are worth, something is very wrong.

They get paid what they are worth. Each player contributes to money generation. Without them, no money gets made by owners. If they were getting paid more than they helped generate, then their contracts would start to lower. It's simple economics. You might hate it but it's reality. Athletes get paid what they are worth. If you want to live somewhere that pays everyone on an arbitrary "worth" system, I hear Cuba is taking new residents.

If you honestly believe every person is worth exactly what they are being payed, I don't know what to tell you. It must be a perfect world you live in.

Wow. You're reading comprehension is...uhh...special. Where did I ever say such...nevermind. You're right. I'm wrong. Moving on.[/quote:1qy4u6tt]

"They get paid what they are worth." - Your very words in this very quote. That's your argument. Not all that hard to comprehend. It's a pretty clear sentence.[/quote:1qy4u6tt]

And yet you somehow twisted that into me thinking everything is fair and everyone gets paid exactly what they're worth. Your reading comprehension skills need some work. After that, we'll discuss basic spelling. Then we'll tie that all together into basic grammar.

 

[Therion]

If you want to live somewhere that pays everyone on an arbitrary "worth" system, I hear Cuba is taking new residents.

Actually, moving to Cuba is banned under the Trading With The Enemy Act. Visiting Cuba is off-limits for the majority of Americans.

Well, he could buy himself a little raft and a paddle. I've heard it works one way, why not the other? LOL

 

[sportscardtheory]

[quote="sportscardtheory":3s39o938][quote="Therion":3s39o938][quote="sportscardtheory":3s39o938]I would love to create a sport where only the winners are compensated. Imagine how amazing boxing matches would be if only the winner received payment. Imagine a UFC match where only the winner was payed. Imagine how amazing every baseball, football, hockey and basketball game would be if the losing team didn't get paid for that game. You could still have contracts, but every loss loses you money from the contract.

Vince McMahon tried this. It was called the XFL. It failed miserably. Didn't even make it into a second season.

And by buying cardboard pictures of players, watching games on tv, attending games, buying caps and jerseys, etc all contribute to these salaries. If you hate how much they get paid, then stop supporting the system.

I can't remember one red cent I have spent in support of Bobby Bonilla and his contract. And even if I have supported the "system", it doesn't make it any less flawed. I like the sport of baseball, I'm not going to boycott it because mediocre players make insane amounts of money for doing nothing. It's just a messed up system. Anytime people make more than they are worth, something is very wrong.

They get paid what they are worth. Each player contributes to money generation. Without them, no money gets made by owners. If they were getting paid more than they helped generate, then their contracts would start to lower. It's simple economics. You might hate it but it's reality. Athletes get paid what they are worth. If you want to live somewhere that pays everyone on an arbitrary "worth" system, I hear Cuba is taking new residents.

If you honestly believe every person is worth exactly what they are being payed, I don't know what to tell you. It must be a perfect world you live in.

Wow. You're reading comprehension is...uhh...special. Where did I ever say such...nevermind. You're right. I'm wrong. Moving on.[/quote:3s39o938]

"They get paid what they are worth." - Your very words in this very quote. That's your argument. Not all that hard to comprehend. It's a pretty clear sentence.[/quote:3s39o938]

And yet you somehow twisted that into me thinking everything is fair and everyone gets paid exactly what they're worth. Your reading comprehension skills need some work. After that, we'll discuss basic spelling. Then we'll tie that all together into basic grammar.[/quote:3s39o938]

So you agree with me that players can be over-compensated. What the F are you "arguing" with me for. Why are you attempting to slight my spelling and grammar without even explaining what is wrong with it. Egghead.

 

[Therion]

And yet you somehow twisted that into me thinking everything is fair and everyone gets paid exactly what they're worth. Your reading comprehension skills need some work. After that, we'll discuss basic spelling. Then we'll tie that all together into basic grammar.

So you agree with me that players can be over-compensated. What the F are you "arguing" with me for. Why are you attempting to slight my spelling and grammar without even explaining what is wrong with it. Egghead.

I'm not arguing with you as much as talking down to you. It's subtle, but I thought you would have picked up on it.

Do I agree that players can be overcompensated? Sure. Do I agree that they are overcompensated? Generally, no.

And you spelled "paid" as "payed".

Now I'm officially done. I try to avoid shooting down boys that bring knives to gunfights. Feel free to get your last jab in. Make it a doozie!

 

[sportscardtheory]

And yet you somehow twisted that into me thinking everything is fair and everyone gets paid exactly what they're worth. Your reading comprehension skills need some work. After that, we'll discuss basic spelling. Then we'll tie that all together into basic grammar.

So you agree with me that players can be over-compensated. What the F are you "arguing" with me for. Why are you attempting to slight my spelling and grammar without even explaining what is wrong with it. Egghead.

I'm not arguing with you as much as talking down to you. It's subtle, but I thought you would have picked up on it.

Do I agree that players can be overcompensated? Sure. Do I agree that they are overcompensated? Generally, no.

And you spelled "paid" as "payed".

Now I'm officially done. I try to avoid shooting down boys that bring knives to gunfights. Feel free to get your last jab in. Make it a doozie!

I spelled one word wrong and you are calling me on it. :lol: Nice. I guess here is where I could point out your numerous grammatical errors, but I'm just not that lame to bring out those guns to your pathetic little "gunfight". It's okay though, I don't mind being "talked down to" by someone that isn't even smart enough to comprehend that he is agreeing with the person he is attempting to disagree with. It's fitting that you are "officially done", because to anyone reading your sad pathetic arguments, you were done before you even started. Good night, egghead.

 

[jumbojohnny]

Just to play the Devil's Advocate... I can agree with both of what you are saying, and being an objective reader, I can also state that both of you were agreeing with each other and agrueing at the same time, which is confusing enough.

sportscardtheory - No athlete should be paid the money that they make to play a game, but they are and they will. Its not just that some players being over paid based on performances, but its also the name recognition that they can offer the team. Example: When A-Rod became a yankee, how many people went out and bought ARod jerseys, hats, posters, photos, etc. The team generates revenue off of those purchases. But in the beginng of those years, how much did Rodriguez actually earn of $27.5 million a year- ON THE FIELD?...Maybe half of that? But...how much additional revenue was earned from him being on the team...Thats where the additional pay increases come from. Professional sports are a mulit-billion dollar a year industry. Sadly the game is now only a small fraction of what really goes on.


Therion - You are right that players earn their money in the sense that they help their respective franchises earn more based on merchandise and ticket sales. That is why so many players are compensated so greatly. Its not always what they are going to do, but what they have already accomplished. Teams pay for a players name and skills, with hopes that the athlete will continue to reach certain goals while being employed and wearing the team uniform.

As for the extention of being paid over a decade or longer...Its not fair to say that Bonilla is being paid to sit on his ass. He isn't, although he is just sitting on his ass. That money and contract was intentionally designed to help the team absorb the sum of the contract so that it would not hurt the team as a business. There is interest that is paid to players for the extended periods, because it is almost certain that franchises are collecting interests also. Its just like getting paid dividends on a loan or investments, except here the franchise is the investment. Also as an athlete, its smart to break up your income over years to come for a few reasons: Income Taxes, additional interests, and the possibility that irresponsible spending and poor money management could bankrupt even the wealthy.

In a perfect world, players would only be paid for what they do on the field. There would be price tags on hits, RBIs, outs, strikes,...every play would have a fiscal reward. None of us live in a perfect world, and therefore it will never be as simple as that, so we as fans need to enjoy the game for want each individual wants to enjoy the game for, let the franchises worry about how much to pay their employees. At the end of the day our lives are effected very little by those decisions.

 

[Wes]

The players make only a fraction of what the owners make off them. Complaining about them is no different than complaining about actors when the studios bring in hundreds of millions.

 

[Therion]

The players make only a fraction of what the owners make off them. Complaining about them is no different than complaining about actors when the studios bring in hundreds of millions.

Thank you! Someone understands basic free market economics.

And jumbojohnny, how do you feel we are making the same point? He says they get paid too much and I say they do not. Sounds like we are making the exact opposite point to me.

 

[bodiaz]

Nothing like sitting on your ass and getting payed for the rest of your life. What a joke of a society we live in that people are rewarded to this extent for being marginally good at a game while people that have meaningful occupations make barely enough to survive.

Hey Jealousy! Rears its ugly head again. And Bonilla was VERY good when he had Bonds in the lineup with him. Kind of like Kent and Aurilla!

 

[sportscardtheory]

Just to play the Devil's Advocate... I can agree with both of what you are saying, and being an objective reader, I can also state that both of you were agreeing with each other and agrueing at the same time, which is confusing enough.

sportscardtheory - No athlete should be paid the money that they make to play a game, but they are and they will. Its not just that some players being over paid based on performances, but its also the name recognition that they can offer the team. Example: When A-Rod became a yankee, how many people went out and bought ARod jerseys, hats, posters, photos, etc. The team generates revenue off of those purchases. But in the beginng of those years, how much did Rodriguez actually earn of $27.5 million a year- ON THE FIELD?...Maybe half of that? But...how much additional revenue was earned from him being on the team...Thats where the additional pay increases come from. Professional sports are a mulit-billion dollar a year industry. Sadly the game is now only a small fraction of what really goes on.


Therion - You are right that players earn their money in the sense that they help their respective franchises earn more based on merchandise and ticket sales. That is why so many players are compensated so greatly. Its not always what they are going to do, but what they have already accomplished. Teams pay for a players name and skills, with hopes that the athlete will continue to reach certain goals while being employed and wearing the team uniform.

As for the extention of being paid over a decade or longer...Its not fair to say that Bonilla is being paid to sit on his ass. He isn't, although he is just sitting on his ass. That money and contract was intentionally designed to help the team absorb the sum of the contract so that it would not hurt the team as a business. There is interest that is paid to players for the extended periods, because it is almost certain that franchises are collecting interests also. Its just like getting paid dividends on a loan or investments, except here the franchise is the investment. Also as an athlete, its smart to break up your income over years to come for a few reasons: Income Taxes, additional interests, and the possibility that irresponsible spending and poor money management could bankrupt even the wealthy.

In a perfect world, players would only be paid for what they do on the field. There would be price tags on hits, RBIs, outs, strikes,...every play would have a fiscal reward. None of us live in a perfect world, and therefore it will never be as simple as that, so we as fans need to enjoy the game for want each individual wants to enjoy the game for, let the franchises worry about how much to pay their employees. At the end of the day our lives are effected very little by those decisions.

Great post full of great points. Thanks for not just pointing out a spelling error and being insulting. I agree that these players bring in revenue. But players like Carl Pavano and Gary Matthews Jr. and Darren Dreifort and A.J. Burnett and many many MANY others are NOT bringing in enough revenue and are NOT good enough on the field to even pay for a FRACTION of their paychecks. They won the lotto. Good for them, bad for baseball fans. That money would be better off in the hands of people or players that actually deserve it, that's all I'm saying. It makes me sick to see people handed millions upon millions of dollars simply for being mediocre or downright terrible at what they do. I don't blame the players. Clearly if you are handed money, you take it. But like I have said before, just because you sign a guaranteed contract, doesn't mean you deserve it.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Nothing like sitting on your ass and getting payed for the rest of your life. What a joke of a society we live in that people are rewarded to this extent for being marginally good at a game while people that have meaningful occupations make barely enough to survive.

Hey Jealousy! Rears its ugly head again. And Bonilla was VERY good when he had Bonds in the lineup with him. Kind of like Kent and Aurilla!

Of course I'm jealous of the money he is making... nice reach.

 

[blanning71]

Keep it civil. No more name calling.

 

[bgribbon]

little fun fact...bonilla donated the money to build a football field in a highschool in my nieghborhood which was a realy nice gesture...only problem is that the contracters messed up on measuring the landscape and the field turned out to be only 90 yards making it virtually useless for the schools football team...on the bright side the baseball team has a really nice astro turf field to practice on...lol mess

 

[ccouch (Chad)]

Getting back to the original topic of the thread -- these payments to Bonilla aren't nearly as egregious as they seem. Simply put, the Mets owed Bonilla $5.9M at the end of 2000 when they waived him. They agreed to the deferred arrangement to pay that money between 2011 and 2035. The rate of return, you ask?? A modest 8%.

That's it. By deferring the money in 2000, Bonilla basically made an investment of $5.9M in a vehicle earning 8%.

While on the surface it might seem that the Mets got shafted, they essentially just borrowed $5.9M from Bonilla at 8% in 2000. And now they have to start making payments on that loan.

 

[jumbojohnny]

Exactly, and its good business for the Bonilla and the Mets. The Mets can use the money and interest earned elsewhere, and Bonilla earns himself a nice interest rate and a guarenteed income for a number of years while he is retired. SOOOOOOOO many people that strike rich at a young age go broke insanely fast, and then have nothing to fall back on. Bonilla has ensured he will live comfy for the rest of his life....Like a wierd retirement plan or 401K.

Getting back to the original topic of the thread -- these payments to Bonilla aren't nearly as egregious as they seem. Simply put, the Mets owed Bonilla $5.9M at the end of 2000 when they waived him. They agreed to the deferred arrangement to pay that money between 2011 and 2035. The rate of return, you ask?? A modest 8%.

That's it. By deferring the money in 2000, Bonilla basically made an investment of $5.9M in a vehicle earning 8%.

While on the surface it might seem that the Mets got shafted, they essentially just borrowed $5.9M from Bonilla at 8% in 2000. And now they have to start making payments on that loan.