The offer the Mariners turned down for Felix Hernandez

[Sly]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

Come on, Seattle is stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. What are they competing for? Losing a first round playoff series? I'm not saying this was the right deal for them, but trading Felix for 5-6 guys certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for them. Look what trading Bedard did for Baltimore, and you're probably looking at a greater return for Felix. So you stink for a few years instead of being mediocre for a few years? What's the difference?

 

[Sly]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

Come on, Seattle is stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. What are they competing for? Losing a first round playoff series? I'm not saying this was the right deal for them, but trading Felix for 5-6 guys certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for them. Look what trading Bedard did for Baltimore, and you're probably looking at a greater return for Felix. So you stink for a few years instead of being mediocre for a few years? What's the difference?

What did the Bedard deal do for Baltimore? Last Place, 16 games under .500, 18.5 back from first place.

After the last few seasons, the Mariners cannot afford to continue losing for a few more years. Unless you're out here in Seattle, you have no idea the impact it's had on attendance and fan support.

A team that is competing and above .500 is better than "mediocre." And yes, I would take a first round playoff loss over more last place, 100 loss seasons, and I think most fans would too.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

What did the Bedard deal do for Baltimore? Last Place, 16 games under .500, 18.5 back from first place.

After the last few seasons, the Mariners cannot afford to continue losing for a few more years. Unless you're out here in Seattle, you have no idea the impact it's had on attendance and fan support.

A team that is competing and above .500 is better than "mediocre." And yes, I would take a first round playoff loss over more last place, 100 loss seasons, and I think most fans would too.

The Bedard deal got Baltimore Tillman and Jones, plus additional pieces. They aren't competing yet, but they traded one player for 2-3 pieces of the puzzle.

So you'd prefer losing in the first round of the playoffs with no chance of winning a title any time soon over a couple losing seasons with the chance of winning a title within 5-6 years?

 

[MallCopKJ]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

I was under the impression that the Gonzalez to Mariners deal was a 2nd deal seperate from the Red Sox to Mariners 2 team deal. My understanding was that they offered the 5 prospects out of the 8 for Hernandez straight up then when it got declined they tried to get the Padres involved. I still say any of those 5 for Hernandez straight up is a good deal for both sides. And as a Red Sox fan id rather keep the position players and remember we dont have a good SS right now, Drew is gone soon, Bay might not resign. Navarro and Reddick might be critical pieces to the Red Sox in 2 years for all we know with Reddick even showing he can hit right now.

 

[trademhigh]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

I was under the impression that the Gonzalez to Mariners deal was a 2nd deal seperate from the Red Sox to Mariners 2 team deal. My understanding was that they offered the 5 prospects out of the 8 for Hernandez straight up then when it got declined they tried to get the Padres involved. I still say any of those 5 for Hernandez straight up is a good deal for both sides. And as a Red Sox fan id rather keep the position players and remember we dont have a good SS right now, Drew is gone soon, Bay might not resign. Navarro and Reddick might be critical pieces to the Red Sox in 2 years for all we know with Reddick even showing he can hit right now.

I'd be very surprised if bay didn't resign. He fits in perfectly with the Red Sox.

 

[MallCopKJ]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

I was under the impression that the Gonzalez to Mariners deal was a 2nd deal seperate from the Red Sox to Mariners 2 team deal. My understanding was that they offered the 5 prospects out of the 8 for Hernandez straight up then when it got declined they tried to get the Padres involved. I still say any of those 5 for Hernandez straight up is a good deal for both sides. And as a Red Sox fan id rather keep the position players and remember we dont have a good SS right now, Drew is gone soon, Bay might not resign. Navarro and Reddick might be critical pieces to the Red Sox in 2 years for all we know with Reddick even showing he can hit right now.

I'd be very surprised if bay didn't resign. He fits in perfectly with the Red Sox.

I agree that he fits in really well with the team but not if it takes $17 mill/year to resign him.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

First, in regards to the Felix/Gonzalez deal, you do know that the deal involved Felix, Morrow, Aumont AND Trunifel. That is practically EVERY top prospect in the M's organization.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

On top of that, you've got Russ Branyan the rest of the year. You've got Mike Carp, Brian LaHair and Chris Shelton right now in the minors. Frankly, Carp is going to be a good ball player, and will put up good numbers as a first baseman. You don't need Gonzalez

You don't need an outfielder, you've got Saunders, Gutierrez, Ichiro and if they sign Ackely, you don't need a Reddick

Jack Z. has said he plans on Wilson being their SS for a while, they don't need Navarro.

They could stand to improve their pitching throughout the system, but shipping off your #1 guy, the one guy you've developed, that's just ridiculous to get a few more pitchers.

Regarding Buchholz, every major deal the Red Sox discussed this offseason involved Buchholz, and looked at as the centerpiece of the deals. So you've got to put some stock in him. But you look at what he's done in the pros thus far, it's not impressive.

I'm not putting down the Sox minor league organization. All I'm saying is, who can make an immediate impact this year or next?? The M's can compete next year, just as they have this year. They're not going up against the Red Sox and Yankees every year...they can have some holes and still compete. But you still need a staff ace, and without Felix, they don't have that. None of the guys that would come in from Boston can fill that role.

Ultimately, it comes to this, it seems like Red Sox fans think this is a good deal, for obvious reasons, yet I'm sure if you asked most fans of other teams, they'd tell you it's not.

You're talking about a 23 year old kid who has proven to be the ace of a staff. This isn't a 32 year old Roy Halladay or 34 year old Jarrod Washburn or a 30 year old Cliff Lee. Felix has yet to hit his prime.

I was under the impression that the Gonzalez to Mariners deal was a 2nd deal seperate from the Red Sox to Mariners 2 team deal. My understanding was that they offered the 5 prospects out of the 8 for Hernandez straight up then when it got declined they tried to get the Padres involved. I still say any of those 5 for Hernandez straight up is a good deal for both sides. And as a Red Sox fan id rather keep the position players and remember we dont have a good SS right now, Drew is gone soon, Bay might not resign. Navarro and Reddick might be critical pieces to the Red Sox in 2 years for all we know with Reddick even showing he can hit right now.

I'd be very surprised if bay didn't resign. He fits in perfectly with the Red Sox.

I agree that he fits in really well with the team but not if it takes $17 mill/year to resign him.

His agent was asking for Teixeira money, which means Bay better start hitting. He hasn't delivered anywhere near what Teix has brought to the yankees.