Top 15 All-Time in MLB history...STARTING PITCHER

[crowhop]

1. Lefty Grove
2. Walter Johnson
3. Christy Mathewson
4. Cy Young
5. Pete Alexander
6. Pedro Martinez
7. Kid Nichols
8. Randy Johnson
9. Greg Maddux
10. Tom Seaver
11. Roger Clemens
12. Whitey Ford
13. Carl Hubbell
14. Warren Spahn
15. Sandy Koufax
16. Bob Feller
17. Mordecai Brown
18. Bob Gibson
19. Al Spalding
20. John Smoltz

As someone else mentioned, it is difficult factoring in the dead-ball era. I used of combo of Ws/ERA+/Win% to narrow them down.
I had to put Clemens in it somewhere. For all we know, all the current guys are on "the list" and we don't know it yet.
I went to 20 just so I could name Smoltz.
If Koufax is in, seems like there would be more love for Dizzy Dean.

 

[Mozzie22]

Thanks a lot guys. I had a great time working on this list. I don't see how anyone can argue who the top 5 are. Placement maybe, but not who belongs there.

As far as Nolan Ryan, 7 No-nos is great and all, but I am more impressed by Walter Johnson's 110 career shut outs. I would take a picther who stops the other team from scoring 110 times any day over a pitcher that will no hit them 7 times. Pete Alexander threw 90 shut outs. That's just amazing.




Joe

Again, we can't overlook the era in which Walter Johnson, Mathewson, Cy Young, Pete Alexander, etc...pitched. Shutouts in those era were far more common than they are now.

This is so true. The era was different back then, they expected you to pitch the entire game. I think the real difference is that ballplayers back then were men. I don't know what they are now, but compared to the pioneers of the game they don't measure up.

 

[crowhop]

Thanks a lot guys. I had a great time working on this list. I don't see how anyone can argue who the top 5 are. Placement maybe, but not who belongs there.

As far as Nolan Ryan, 7 No-nos is great and all, but I am more impressed by Walter Johnson's 110 career shut outs. I would take a picther who stops the other team from scoring 110 times any day over a pitcher that will no hit them 7 times. Pete Alexander threw 90 shut outs. That's just amazing.




Joe

Again, we can't overlook the era in which Walter Johnson, Mathewson, Cy Young, Pete Alexander, etc...pitched. Shutouts in those era were far more common than they are now.

This is so true. The era was different back then, they expected you to pitch the entire game. I think the real difference is that ballplayers back then were men. I don't know what they are now, but compared to the pioneers of the game they don't measure up.

It is a stark contrast. Back in the day, you had to be "tough". And tough meant not wearing catcher's equipment and throwing a complete game every time out. A different world, really. There is a fine line between stupidity and bravery.

 

[Wes]

Thanks a lot guys. I had a great time working on this list. I don't see how anyone can argue who the top 5 are. Placement maybe, but not who belongs there.

As far as Nolan Ryan, 7 No-nos is great and all, but I am more impressed by Walter Johnson's 110 career shut outs. I would take a picther who stops the other team from scoring 110 times any day over a pitcher that will no hit them 7 times. Pete Alexander threw 90 shut outs. That's just amazing.




Joe

Again, we can't overlook the era in which Walter Johnson, Mathewson, Cy Young, Pete Alexander, etc...pitched. Shutouts in those era were far more common than they are now.

This is so true. The era was different back then, they expected you to pitch the entire game. I think the real difference is that ballplayers back then were men. I don't know what they are now, but compared to the pioneers of the game they don't measure up.

I don't know if it so much the "men" issue as it is the way the game is played. The lineups those guys faced were made up mostly of guys who worked other jobs in the offseason, didn't work out and were all white. Physically today the game is much greater - the worst guys in the lineups today are a heck of a lot better than the worst guys back then. I promise you Josh Beckett would have a great deal more success going back in time than Cy Young would being brought to the present day.

 

[crowhop]

Another fun one. I wish that I had taken part in all of them.


Joe

Ha...now that they are rolling, we might just start it over. It's not like we got anything else better to do.

 

[crowhop]

I promise you Josh Beckett would have a great deal more success going back in time than Cy Young would being brought to the present day.

Meh...I'm just not so sure about that. If Young played in today's game, he would be totally different. You couldn't just time-warp him and expect him to perform well 100 years later.

 

[Wes]

I promise you Josh Beckett would have a great deal more success going back in time than Cy Young would being brought to the present day.

Meh...I'm just not so sure about that. If Young played in today's game, he would be totally different. You couldn't just time-warp him and expect him to perform well 100 years later.

I'd agree with that - if he grew up today perhaps he becomes a great pitcher too. But I doubt he comes close to 512 wins or any of the other astronomical counting stats.

 

[muskiesfan]

Another fun one. I wish that I had taken part in all of them.


Joe

Ha...now that they are rolling, we might just start it over. It's not like we got anything else better to do.

I'm game. If you want to start again, I'd love to get in on all of them this time. It's a lot of fun.

I understand the different era, but I don't think it diminishes what those pitchers accomplished. I didn't base my rankings off of the shut outs. I used wp%, wins, and era+ to factor most of it. Of course I made some personal decisions on placing people who maybe had less wins or a lower wp% in the rankings, but that was my main gauge. I threw shut outs in for fun. There were a lot of different factors between then and now. I still think blanking the other team 100 times or more is pretty damn impressive.



Joe

 

[MOFNY]

It's funny how Pedro seems to be among the best, and yet some don't consider him a first ballot HOFer. Being first in ERA+ and 3rd in K/BB all-time is remarkable. You can't blame people for not using adjusted stats like ERA+. They are fairly new, and many people use the standards like wins. Pedro's stats during that 4-5 year run were insane. 8+ K/BB are you kidding?

 

[crowhop]

I promise you Josh Beckett would have a great deal more success going back in time than Cy Young would being brought to the present day.

Meh...I'm just not so sure about that. If Young played in today's game, he would be totally different. You couldn't just time-warp him and expect him to perform well 100 years later.

I'd agree with that - if he grew up today perhaps he becomes a great pitcher too. But I doubt he comes close to 512 wins or any of the other astronomical counting stats.

No question. He would have major trouble winning even half that. But it wouldn't exactly be a cake-walk for Beckett to win 500, either.

 

[robboshow]

1. Walter Johnson 147 ERA+/ 1.061 WHIP / #8 Overall in Bill James Top 100 Players
2. Lefty Grove 148 ERA+ / 1.278 WHIP / #19 BJ100
3. Satchel Paige 124 ERA+ / 1.279 WHIP / #17 BJ100 / Did not debut in MLB until age 42
4. Christy Mathewson 135 ERA+ / 1.059 WHIP / #42 BJ100
5. Cy Young 138 ERA+ / 1.130 WHIP / #23 BJ100
6. Three Finger Brown 138 ERA+ / 1.066 WHIP / #83 BJ100
7. Pete Alexander 135 ERA+ / 1.121 WHIP / #20 BJ100
8. Tom Seaver 127 ERA+ / 1.121 WHIP / #38 BJ100
9. Bob Gibson 127 ERA + / 1.188 WHIP / #46 BJ100
10. Roger Clemens 143 ERA+ / 1.173 WHIP / #49 BJ100
11. Kid Nichols 140 ERA+ / 1.222 WHIP / #47 BJ100
12. Greg Maddux 132 ERA+ / 1.143 WHIP / #92 BJ100
13. Sandy Koufax 131 ERA + / 1.106 WHIP / #51 BJ100 / Only had 5/6 excellent seasons
14. Carl Hubbell 130 ERA+ / 1.166 WHIP / #94 BJ100
15. Warren Spahn 118 ERA+ / 1.195 WHIP / #36 BJ100