Topps being shady, keeping/grading cards, undermining value of previous releases, again

[BiggioBrooks755]

Told you Topps doesnt care about their customers...This really is not a shock at all

 

[sportscardtheory]

Told you Topps doesnt care about their customers...This really is not a shock at all

Maybe if people would stop buying 1989 Topps Randy Johnson RCs for $.20 a pop on ebay in 2016, Topps wouldn't withhold 2013 Kris Bryant rookies to sell on the secondary market in 2015.

 

[Dilferules]

Congress is not going to do anything about Topps' shady practices. The regulating power here is MLB. If they feel Topps is doing a poor job as the sole card licensee, maybe they award the exclusive contract to Panini when it's up, or maybe they re-introduce competition.

Alternately, if people stop buying Topps' products (or buying from breakers and giving them money to continue buying more unopened product, increasing demand for Topps cases), profits drop and they won't be able to pay as much for the license, which opens the door for competition or a different sole licensee.

Topps used to produce cards for all 4 major sports and now they are down to one. Things are going to get even shadier as they become more desperate to keep afloat.

 

[cgilmo]

Let's clarify what is "The Beast" as it relates to card companies.

The economy whereby a distributor buys direct from a manufacturer and then sells to a card shop or direct to a consumer, the card shop sells it whole or busts for singles (that step is fuzzy) and the collector buys the singles off the secondary market is "The Beast".

Someone buying cards that have changed hands a few times only has a negligible impact on this economic chain in that they may fuel the wallets of collectors to buy products from re-sellers. If any part of that chain were to stall, the industry that supports the hobby would have to find a way out.

A bigger part of the issue is that Topps still thinks that their primary customer is a dad at target with his son and a 9 pocket binder.

 

[metallicalex777]

Let's clarify what is "The Beast" as it relates to card companies.

The economy whereby a distributor buys direct from a manufacturer and then sells to a card shop or direct to a consumer, the card shop sells it whole or busts for singles (that step is fuzzy) and the collector buys the singles off the secondary market is "The Beast".

Someone buying cards that have changed hands a few times only has a negligible impact on this economic chain in that they may fuel the wallets of collectors to buy products from re-sellers. If any part of that chain were to stall, the industry that supports the hobby would have to find a way out.

A bigger part of the issue is that Topps still thinks that their primary customer is a dad at target with his son and a 9 pocket binder.

This is "The Beast"...phew it isn't Topps for the OPs sake Seriously though, chances are this card was pulled by a casebreaker rewarded to a slot buyer which continues to prove your point.

 

[cgilmo]

The beast includes all manufacturers

 

[BBCgalaxee]

Gotta disagree with your Chris.

Topps thinks their primary customer are breakers and have generally left the kids and regular collectors behind.

Just look at the insane amount of truly redundant "one pack products" with $100 and up srp.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[metallicalex777]

Gotta disagree with your Chris.

Topps thinks their primary customer are breakers and have generally left the kids and regular collectors behind.

Just look at the insane amount of truly redundant "one pack products" with $100 and up srp.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

To be devil's advocate, what about the Topps Opening Day and Triple Play packs? Also, they constantly push out nicely priced retail items for Target and the like and even the hits put into those are same/if not better value than boxes you would get at an LCS/online currently.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Maybe I would buy from them if I didn't think that their products were all rigged. Why would I buy unopened products when a lot of what is supposed to be inserted isn't even inserted. It's the reason I don't take that risk. Redemptions, holding out cards, releasing stuff from that very product in future, different products. It's a big farce.

And is there really a need to be rude about it. I never claimed to be "noble". It's called discussion. You have a better idea, let's hear it. Sitting on your hands and being snarky to people throwing around ideas seems to be working great.

The only 'idea' in your OP is terrible.

Just being honest; if you don't like honest discussion, then you're in the wrong place. Suggesting Uncle Sam should get his inefficient hands in someone else's business, business that can do just fine without it and which you claim to not be yours, isn't cool. I don't need you to spend my tax money to protect me from myself.

I don't support Topps in the second best way I know how: any of their products I buy, I do so far enough down the supply chain that he only way they get any money based on my actions is by breakers mistaking my interest in old cards for future interest in current cards. That mistake should be corrected quickly. My cut-off point is 2000 - anything Topps made from 2000 and later, I don't intentionally buy (may get some as part of lots I buy) in any meaningful quantity.

 

[bigunitcards]

my cat's name is Mittens

 

[AmishDave]

my cat's name is Mittens

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

 

[sportscardtheory]

The only 'idea' in your OP is terrible.

Just being honest; if you don't like honest discussion, then you're in the wrong place. Suggesting Uncle Sam should get his inefficient hands in someone else's business, business that can do just fine without it and which you claim to not be yours, isn't cool. I don't need you to spend my tax money to protect me from myself.

I don't support Topps in the second best way I know how: any of their products I buy, I do so far enough down the supply chain that he only way they get any money based on my actions is by breakers mistaking my interest in old cards for future interest in current cards. That mistake should be corrected quickly. My cut-off point is 2000 - anything Topps made from 2000 and later, I don't intentionally buy (may get some as part of lots I buy) in any meaningful quantity.

I never said that "Uncle Sam" should be involved. You said that. I called for more regulation, which you ridiculously assumed means massive government overhaul. Pull off the tinfoil hat and understand that something needs to be done to keep these shady practices in check. Whether it MLB/NHL/NBA/NFL or whether it be us with our wallets, petitions, etc, something has to change. These companies simply run amok and are seemingly getting ballsier and ballsier.

 

[cgilmo]

Gotta disagree with your Chris.

Topps thinks their primary customer are breakers and have generally left the kids and regular collectors behind.

Just look at the insane amount of truly redundant "one pack products" with $100 and up srp.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

This is blatantly not true. Breakers might seem like they are huge, but the reality is that its a small piece of the puzzle.

 

[cgilmo]

And I'm not so sure that group breaking is as scalable as some think.

 

[predatorkj]

If one were to buy only secondary market stuff that's old enough to not be very similar to current products (maybe that's pre-2000 or even older), that's not really feeding the beast.

I'd agree.

 

[predatorkj]

This is blatantly not true. Breakers might seem like they are huge, but the reality is that its a small piece of the puzzle.

Here I'd disagree and I'll tell you why. The kinds of cards sold to the non-breaker types tend to be a wax box here, or a blaster there. Those sales can't(yes I'm going out on a limb here) be eclipsing the sales made to guys bust wax. I want a high end product, I buy a box(and probably get kicked in the gut by doing so). A guy is running a group break or something buys a case. Therefore, he just purchased more boxes in one fell swoop than most "collectors" buy in a year's time. And honestly, Brent and Becca probably account for a good portion of every single release as far as sales go.

I'm not gonna lie, I feed the beast that is this hobby daily. However, I agree with many folks whose sentiments are that's it's almost an inexcusbale gamble for me to personally buy wax. Especially not in the quantity I buy. I'd dang near be wasting my money.

Which is why I disagree with you Chris(albeit respectfully).

 

[cgilmo]

Here I'd disagree and I'll tell you why. The kinds of cards sold to the non-breaker types tend to be a wax box here, or a blaster there. Those sales can't(yes I'm going out on a limb here) be eclipsing the sales made to guys bust wax. I want a high end product, I buy a box(and probably get kicked in the gut by doing so). A guy is running a group break or something buys a case. Therefore, he just purchased more boxes in one fell swoop than most "collectors" buy in a year's time. And honestly, Brent and Becca probably account for a good portion of every single release as far as sales go.

I'm not gonna lie, I feed the beast that is this hobby daily. However, I agree with many folks whose sentiments are that's it's almost an inexcusbale gamble for me to personally buy wax. Especially not in the quantity I buy. I'd dang near be wasting my money.

Which is why I disagree with you Chris(albeit respectfully).

Having worked at a major distributor I can tell you that the number of people who order by the case for personal use is much higher than you would expect. It's seriously a lot of people.

 

[predatorkj]

I don't agree with that at all. That's bogus. If the product wasn't purchased and opened, I would have nothing to buy and wouldn't. I'm not forcing anyone to open product by buying on the secondary market. They do that of their own free will.

I agree with your point that the wax busters do so of their own free will.

What I think you are not either realizing, or choosing to ignore, is the price of a wax box. Not all of, but most of, this stuff is kind of expensive. I am not sure what everyone, who is involved in the hobby, can really spend, but you can't really sit here with a straight face and tell me guys dropping hundreds and up to thousands of dollars on cases of wax can ALL really afford it. You know, people gripe about people not collecting anymore and selling everything they pull. The hobby kind of backed itself into that corner. There is too much stuff out there and it's too damn expensive. You certainly can't have it all. Which is why people set and player collect. Unfortunately, there is no way to do this without wax busters. Bagwell has been in a slew of new products, none of which I have purchased even one pack from. But when I buy a dynasty patch auto or a triple threads patch auto, I figure those guys selling that stuff are keeping the few things they want, if any, and selling the rest.

I'd even say they are forced to sell. Don't get me wrong, there are certainly wealthy people in this hobby. But not EVERYONE can afford this. And at the rate things get busted and sold, I think the wax breaking soley to sell is bigger than many believe. Ebay is a madhouse of activity just crawling with big hits out of new products. Without people buying them, people couldn't afford to bust all this wax.

Or, maybe I'm wrong and all of you can afford to drop $100 on a box or a $1000 on a case and it's no big deal and they don't need to sell. No bigger deal than buying a meal at McDonald's. Maybe everyone does it. All the time. But me, I spend that kind of money, I feel it. Even when I'm buying a specific item for my actual collection.

 

[predatorkj]

Having worked at a major distributor I can tell you that the number of people who order by the case for personal use is much higher than you would expect. It's seriously a lot of people.

Ok, fair enough. But, what kind of collector does this and keeps it all for their own use? None I've ever heard of. They keep what they need/want and resell the rest to recoup costs. Even the local shop is able to put sets together for me this way. For example, I haven't purchased a box of A&G since 2008 if I recall correctly. I just have them make a base set with sp's and a mini set with all inserts. These guys buying this stuff can't afford to keep it all and wouldn't do so anyways. So in essence, they kind of are the same as a guy on the internet selling slots or a guy who busts for one or two big hits and sells the rest. Although I'm assuming the people you speak of tend to be more master set collectors than anything.

 

[cgilmo]

Ok, fair enough. But, what kind of collector does this and keeps it all for their own use? None I've ever heard of. They keep what they need/want and resell the rest to recoup costs. Even the local shop is able to put sets together for me this way. For example, I haven't purchased a box of A&G since 2008 if I recall correctly. I just have them make a base set with sp's and a mini set with all inserts. These guys buying this stuff can't afford to keep it all and wouldn't do so anyways. So in essence, they kind of are the same as a guy on the internet selling slots or a guy who busts for one or two big hits and sells the rest. Although I'm assuming the people you speak of tend to be more master set collectors than anything.

That is where the secondary market comes into play. People buying cases have different reasons for buying them. Group breaking is a reason, gambling is a reason just as collecting is a reason. The motives are just as varied as what happens to the cards after the packs are cracked.