Topps being shady, keeping/grading cards, undermining value of previous releases, again

[sportscardtheory]

Motive equates perfectly to any cash transaction inside and outside of this hobby. People do not spend money for the sake of just spending money, if they do that is defined simply as a donation. Let's take away who owns the actual dollar and focus on the dollar being exchanged for a product. With that in mind, let's use this as a discussion point:
-a person who uses a dollar amount (again, take away who owns the dollar) purchases a product, in this case a Topps baseball card
-that purchase, regardless of who owns the dollar, drives the actual sale directly to Topps regardless of who owns the dollar
-when anyone purchases a single Topps card, the value of the dollar is then used to purchase more product as there is a successful market where single Topps cards are being purchased
-when people STOP purchasing single Topps cards, this will stop a large majority of people that are purchasing boxes and cases from Topps
-when people STOP purchasing boxes and cases from Topps, this forces Topps to change their products (and potentially their ethics) if they want any further success to deliver a product that anyone would purchase whether it be a direct purchase from them

There are plenty of other tie-ins obviously and I am happy to continue further discussion around your opinion and my own.

We will just have to agree to disagree. Topps sells trading card packs/boxes/cases, not future value. They make their money selling to gamblers/risk takers/investors and collectors. The secondary market is called the secondary market for a reason. It's only indirectly related to Topps' profit margin. That's all I have left to say about it.

 

[metallicalex777]

We will just have to agree to disagree. Topps sells trading card packs/boxes/cases, not future value. They make their money selling to gamblers/risk takers/investors and collectors. The secondary market is called the secondary market for a reason. It's only indirectly related to Topps' profit margin. That's all I have left to say about it.

This is the exact topic we have all been discussing, our own opinions. I agreed to disagree from the start of this thread respectfully, and we all have our own opinions and what we all appreciate and not appreciate in this hobby. Regardless of any of our opinions, cards from Topps are still available either in box and case format or single card format so it is up to us individually to spend or trade whatever dollar or card to get the card or product we are hoping to collect and/or have fun with.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

We will just have to agree to disagree. Topps sells trading card packs/boxes/cases, not future value. They make their money selling to gamblers/risk takers/investors and collectors. The secondary market is called the secondary market for a reason. It's only indirectly related to Topps' profit margin. That's all I have left to say about it.

Topps knows they are selling future value and so do we, as evidenced by your thread title and complaint that they are "undermining value of previous releases." Topps clearly isn't concerned about any effect that their present releases have on previous product, but it seems like you think they should? Or they shouldn't? I can't tell.

 

[death2redemptions]

All this talk of heroin has me craving a shot.

Now I'm gonna have to go bust some wax in order to kill these awful heroin cravings.

Thanks guys.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

All this talk of heroin has me craving a shot.

Now I'm gonna have to go bust some wax in order to kill these awful heroin cravings.

Thanks guys.

Sorry man. Let's toast some Kratom!

(I take mine in hot tea)

 

[death2redemptions]

Sorry man. Let's toast some Kratom!

(I take mine in hot tea)

I used to put mine in applesauce but the taste was too disgusting so now I just put it in capsules, which occasionally makes me choke...so maybe I'll be willing to give some tea a try.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

I used to put mine in applesauce but the taste was too disgusting so now I just put it in capsules, which occasionally makes me choke...so maybe I'll be willing to give some tea a try.

It's pretty disgusting too but is the fastest/easiest way for me. I stir two spoonfuls (one each of white maeng da and red vein indo) into a half mug of hot tea, then take it down in two or three gulps with an Arnold Palmer chaser (gotta have a that to wash it down). It's dissolving in my mug as I type.

I only bring it up in reference to your advice to the pill popper on the BO boards. Well done there.

bottoms up!

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Anyway...

Topps is shady.

 

[death2redemptions]

It's pretty disgusting too but is the fastest/easiest way for me. I stir two spoonfuls (one each of white maeng da and red vein indo) into a half mug of hot tea, then take it down in two or three gulps with an Arnold Palmer chaser (gotta have a that to wash it down). It's dissolving in my mug as I type.

I only bring it up in reference to your advice to the pill popper on the BO boards. Well done there.

bottoms up!

Ah, so you are using the high end stuff, sort of like ripping Five Star & Museum Collection. Meanwhile I'm just working with some Bali Red vein & Borneo Green vein...sort of like Topps Series 1 & Topps Heritage.

And yeah, Topps is shady.

 

[TNP777]

I never said that "Uncle Sam" should be involved. You said that. I called for more regulation, which you ridiculously assumed means massive government overhaul. Pull off the tinfoil hat and understand that something needs to be done to keep these shady practices in check. Whether it MLB/NHL/NBA/NFL or whether it be us with our wallets, petitions, etc, something has to change. These companies simply run amok and are seemingly getting ballsier and ballsier.

Of course you're calling for "Uncle Sam" to be involved. I assume you're not wanting the county clerk in Manhattan to scrutinize their practices, right? And on the flip side of the absurd, I'm sure you're not wanting SCOTUS or the Attorney General to layeth the smacketh down. But you are asking for regulation, most likely federal, which falls under "Uncle Sam".

I agree with you, though. Topps is shady.

I need a fix.

 

[bradical]

Not defending Topps here at all, but these cards were added in to 2014 product as additional hits. There was no guarantee stated that all of the Bryant print run was going to be inserted into packs.

The only thing shady here is that Topps is not commenting on the situation. Protect your brand, people.

 

[death2redemptions]

Not defending Topps here at all, but these cards were added in to 2014 product as additional hits. There was no guarantee stated that all of the Bryant print run was going to be inserted into packs.

You actually make a very good point here.

 

[predatorkj]

Nah. You are wrong. Incentive is an idea, purchasing something is a transaction. Transactions are not equatable to incentive. Topps gets no money from me. A better way to describe wax busting is that it is gambling. Buying singles on the secondary market is simply taking advantage of someone else's gambling addiction. Topps makes their money on gamblers, not those who take advantage of gamblers. You're just wrong.

Topps creates product/Topps sells product/Topps profits/end

Everything that happens after that is inconsequential. Yes, if people didn't buy singles, Topps' sales would plummet. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China.

Simply put, it has to do with what you just stated, if people don't buy singles, people won't gamble and topps hurts in the wallet. I really don't think you or any collector is to blame per se for the crap topps pulls at times. But to say we don't have a hand in it is not realistic. We directly affect it. Directly. Without us buying singles, topps has to really figure some things out. How can you not think we are all involved?

 

[predatorkj]

How is "motive" equatable to a cash transaction? if you buy something from me for $5, I then have $5. What you do with it afterwards has nothing to do with the $5 I now have that used to be yours. If you sell it for $1 later on, I still have $5 and you are out $4, which is inconsequential to me and my $5.

I know that you guys are saying that without singles buyers, there would be less unopened buyers, but so what? Indirectly is not the same as directly. It's two different things. lol

Because you'll take some of that $5 if not all of it and buy more of whatever the hell it was you just sold me. Because you know I'll be back tomorrow for more.

 

[predatorkj]

After you buy unopened from Topps, it's then yours, right. As I have stated, incentive/motive isn't equatable to an actual transaction. It's just not. Once Topps sells it's pack/box/case to you, it's yours to do with as you please. End of story. Topps is now out of the equation. Whether someone buys it from you or not is inconsequential to Topps having their money already. You aren't getting it back. Any profit you make or loss you take is different money.

The bolded is important because it's how any business(or this hobby as it stands now) is run. They buy or create product, you buy it from them, they buy more. If you don't buy anymore, neither do they. Hence why a lot of things stop being made or produced. I'd say consumers have the ultimate power. We just choose not to always exercise it.

 

[mmier118]

I have a confession to make, I bought a $10 box of heritage at target and a $5 rack pack of 2016 topps. I did it, I fed the beast, and I am very sorry. I probably got about two dollars worth of cards out of the two packs too lol.

Anyways, I do think that singles buyers give incentive to the case breakers to buy more product and that some of the stuff that topps is doing is real shady, but this stuff has been going on since the 80's. Ever since cards became valuable someone has been out there trying to game the system. From the original card doctors that trimmed cards to upper deck printing sheets of the griffey and reverse negative dale murphy, to Star Co. printing up new "old unrealeased sets" to sell on shop at home. Stuff like this has always been going on. I'm just happy to have a distraction from my everyday life that I enjoy and I'm glad that there are people that are willing to put up their money to break these products so I can get the cards I want for a fraction of the price it would cost me to get them out of packs. If Topps somehow makes money from this process that's fine by me. There are ton's of businesses that are a whole lot more shady than topps and I would rather have the government looking into prescription drug prices, or the corruption with the government contracts in Iraq than at baseball cards. For the most part the bad things that go on in the card world really aren't that bad.

 

[cgilmo]

Feeding the beast isn't a bad thing. I love the beast. I love what Topps does. I don't think that what they did with these cards is all that unethical.

 

[George_Calfas]

The question that we should be asking; "why does Topps need to hold back cards and then grade those cards?"

The root problem is Topps' failed redemption program. Cards that are held back and sometimes graded are sent as replacement for items that they were unable to fulfill. I have an outstanding A&G auto from 2012 that will not be fulfilled. Topps inserted the person into the product without having secured the contract for services.

The other thing that needs to be understood is how the graded cards hit the market. If these begin being sold directly to customers through the Topps Vault or some other mechanism then there is a whole other reason to worry about market tampering.

 

[bmp1971]

Is Topps able to legally verify they actually place ALL of the autos stated on the checklists in the products? No. I don't see any guarantee anywhere from them that they even have to insert all the autos into packs.

Imagine how many nice, top prospect autos are held aside every year to support employee vacations, etc? I imagine if we knew the truth, we'd all never buy wax again.

Every missing auto in a box of Bowman I've ever had (over 30, prob closer to 40 now) in the past six years, has been replaced with a base auto of a low-level prospect. Think about that. They claim they randomly select replacements. If that were true, I'd have gotten at least one parallel auto per 3 or 4 missing autos, but no, ALL have been base! I think the highest value auto they sent was worth about $7.

Topps has many ways of screwing us over. I have a rare auto (/15) redemption from three years ago they still won't even respond to when I contact CS. Three years and ZERO response from those dick wads. What are we supposed to do about it, just abandon collecting via opening boxes?