Topps Inks Bryce Harper Exclusively

[ThoseBackPages]

Topps IS awesome

 

[Jaypers]

So, just in case any of us are confused by your position......

Topps is IT!

Topps IS awesome

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

~Wow, what a surprise, already people posting how low they got in on cases!~

I thought it was bad to change the checklists after the info was out and people pre-ordered.

Shouldn't everyone be asking to get out of their cases because they added someone to the checklist?

I guess because they can make more money now, it's ok. :?

I'm assuming we won't be seeing 50 posts from the Huge Case Breaker on here about being stuck with cases!

This is just a goofy post.

If you went into a car dealership and ordered a new Cadillac expecting light metallic blue paint, 17 inch rims, leather interior and so on and then two weeks later they called and told you your Cadillac was ready but instead of leather you got vinyl upholstery and still had to pay the same price, you'd be ticked. You'd either say you didn't want it, or you wanted a discount.

On the flip-side, if you ordered everything, paid the price for the vinyl and then they called and told you they'd upgraded you to leather for free...you would be happy as a clam. Because its a given that everyone wants leather and people only buy less to save some dough. Very few people would try and "send it back."

Both are very normal reactions and to try and throw them both in the same bucket as changes just makes no sense.

The problem isn't the reaction exactly. I know if I shelled out thousands and things changed, I'd be kinda ticked too.

The problem is that everyone was up in arms about it and saying the "bait & switch" argument, and how TOPPS sucked, and everyone wanted out.

But now that the change is going to possibly be a boom to the wallets, everyone is so happy about how cheap they got it already.

Basically both times, the change was the same. TOPPS added to the checklist. Topps Chrome's change was perceived to have people lose money, so all hell broke loose. Bowman Chrome's addition is perceived to make early buyers money, so all is good with the world again.

Again, I understood the original upset about TC, and the joy at BC.

But the many, many posts by people saying they just didn't want it anymore, or it was wrong with the bait and switch, or whatever argument were stupid. The bottom line was the money and anyone throwing out the other explanations were lying.

I just don't understand why there would be any surprise over this.

Back to the car analogy - if the add was them bolting on a purple unicorn horn on the front of you car - you'd be ticked. If the the add was a new better stereo system, you'd be happy.

Its not about adding things, its about adding value.

Agreed. Any argument to the contrary is just coming from people trolling for an argument.

Good change = people happy
Bad change = people mad

Nobody is upset at change for the sake of change but change in how it affects the value. It's a pretty simple concept.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Topps IS awesome

Of all the currently MLB licensed companies, they are by far #1.


:mrgreen:

 

[Jaypers]

Any argument to the contrary is just coming from people trolling for an argument.

That would be a rather unique concept, wouldn't you think?

 

[RZimm11]

Not trolling for an argument. Just trying to point out all the hypocrisy.

There were specific people posting on and on about how it was wrong to CHANGE THE CHECKLIST. They bought in with a specific checklist, then it changed, and they said it was wrong. Even though pre-sell sheets and checklists change on every product.

They did the same thing this time, but nobody is posting on and on about how it is wrong now.

Like I said, I understand: More money is good, and less is bad.

But going by the reasoning of the complainers, they were trying to disguise their complaints and bash TOPPS.

We'd see stuff like, "I'd rather get something else now" or "TOPPS did a bait and switch" in trying to back out of pre-orders.

Sell sheets get changed all the time, and as much as these people state that they buy, they probably should have know it could happen.

As far as the car example. Cars and parts have defined "values." Cards do not. You know how much difference in price you pay for a leather seat as opposed to a cloth seat. Buying cards is purely speculation on what you "might" get in a pack. There is a good possibility that you won't get a Harper in your case/box/pack. Would that make you feel any better about paying more for it?

 

[SportsCardMojo]

Not trolling for an argument. Just trying to point out all the hypocrisy.

There were specific people posting on and on about how it was wrong to CHANGE THE CHECKLIST. They bought in with a specific checklist, then it changed, and they said it was wrong. Even though pre-sell sheets and checklists change on every product.

They did the same thing this time, but nobody is posting on and on about how it is wrong now.

Like I said, I understand: More money is good, and less is bad.

But going by the reasoning of the complainers, they were trying to disguise their complaints and bash TOPPS.

We'd see stuff like, "I'd rather get something else now" or "TOPPS did a bait and switch" in trying to back out of pre-orders.

Sell sheets get changed all the time, and as much as these people state that they buy, they probably should have know it could happen.

As far as the car example. Cars and parts have defined "values." Cards do not. You know how much difference in price you pay for a leather seat as opposed to a cloth seat. Buying cards is purely speculation on what you "might" get in a pack. There is a good possibility that you won't get a Harper in your case/box/pack. Would that make you feel any better about paying more for it?

Forget the car example. Have you ever gone to a restaurant and orderd something that didn't taste very good? The picture and description show one thing, but when the food comes out, it's not what you expected. A picture and description is no guarantee that your food is going to taste good, but you trust it anyway.

You either grin and bare it, or you complain to the waiter. The manager comes out and apologizes...and offers to give you something else from the menu and not charge you for it. Do you turn it down?

It's the same thing with what's going on with Topps. You trust them to make some kick ass decisions and make products that are of value to the customer. They get you all excited with a sale sheet, but then hit you upside the head with crazy pack odds and a watered down checklist. At the end of the day, people aren't necessarily thinking about the money they spent, but on the crap they are receiving. Going into Bowman Chrome, there was some of the same sentiment...but by adding Harper, it's turned a bad meal into one that's easier to swallow.

I get what you are saying. I hate a hypocrite as much as the next guy. But I think this is different.

 

[loftlife]

Not trolling for an argument. Just trying to point out all the hypocrisy.

There were specific people posting on and on about how it was wrong to CHANGE THE CHECKLIST. They bought in with a specific checklist, then it changed, and they said it was wrong. Even though pre-sell sheets and checklists change on every product.

They did the same thing this time, but nobody is posting on and on about how it is wrong now.

Like I said, I understand: More money is good, and less is bad.

But going by the reasoning of the complainers, they were trying to disguise their complaints and bash TOPPS.

We'd see stuff like, "I'd rather get something else now" or "TOPPS did a bait and switch" in trying to back out of pre-orders.

Sell sheets get changed all the time, and as much as these people state that they buy, they probably should have know it could happen.

As far as the car example. Cars and parts have defined "values." Cards do not. You know how much difference in price you pay for a leather seat as opposed to a cloth seat. Buying cards is purely speculation on what you "might" get in a pack. There is a good possibility that you won't get a Harper in your case/box/pack. Would that make you feel any better about paying more for it?

Go to dinner and order a $25 dollar plate and they give you an $9 hamburger special, you won't pay for it and send it back. Conversely waiter comes with your correct order and throws in dessert for free you don't complain and you accept it. All proper reactions...

So what was your "Agenda" when you made your initial post? Are you getting the reaction you had hoped for?

 

[SportsCardMojo]

Go to dinner and order a $25 dollar plate and they give you an $9 hamburger special, you won't pay for it and send it back. Conversely waiter comes with your correct order and throws in dessert for free you don't complain and you accept it. All proper reactions...

So what was your "Agenda" when you made your initial post? Are you getting the reaction you had hoped for?

Nice illustration!!! You must be my long lost brother!!! :grouphug:

What's even more awesome is that we posted within a minute of each other. Freaky.

 

[Casebusters]

now you see it (posts) now you don't

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

A better analogy for those that pre-ordered would be: You order 100 lbs of hamburger meat from the butcher @ $3/lb for the restaurant you own. Sometimes you get choice, sometimes you get select, on occasion prime - but you know that you have no say over which grade of meat you'll actually receive from the butcher. The butcher follows through and sends you $300 worth of hamburger meat as regulated by the FDA, USDA and other laws.

That's pretty much it. The person pre-ordering is not actually going to eat the food as the analogy below incorrectly implies, but his customers eating in his restaurant know which grade of beef the restaurant is selling and will always eat all of it eventually.

Go to dinner and order a $25 dollar plate and they give you an $9 hamburger special, you won't pay for it and send it back. Conversely waiter comes with your correct order and throws in dessert for free you don't complain and you accept it. All proper reactions...

So what was your "Agenda" when you made your initial post? Are you getting the reaction you had hoped for?

 

[P_Manning 18]

How long til this turns into another Topps Chrome? People buy 30 cases and only hit 1 Harper auto cuz they printed 8000 cases of this stuff.

 

[RZimm11]

Not trolling for an argument. Just trying to point out all the hypocrisy.

There were specific people posting on and on about how it was wrong to CHANGE THE CHECKLIST. They bought in with a specific checklist, then it changed, and they said it was wrong. Even though pre-sell sheets and checklists change on every product.

They did the same thing this time, but nobody is posting on and on about how it is wrong now.

Like I said, I understand: More money is good, and less is bad.

But going by the reasoning of the complainers, they were trying to disguise their complaints and bash TOPPS.

We'd see stuff like, "I'd rather get something else now" or "TOPPS did a bait and switch" in trying to back out of pre-orders.

Sell sheets get changed all the time, and as much as these people state that they buy, they probably should have know it could happen.

As far as the car example. Cars and parts have defined "values." Cards do not. You know how much difference in price you pay for a leather seat as opposed to a cloth seat. Buying cards is purely speculation on what you "might" get in a pack. There is a good possibility that you won't get a Harper in your case/box/pack. Would that make you feel any better about paying more for it?

Go to dinner and order a $25 dollar plate and they give you an $9 hamburger special, you won't pay for it and send it back. Conversely waiter comes with your correct order and throws in dessert for free you don't complain and you accept it. All proper reactions...

So what was your "Agenda" when you made your initial post? Are you getting the reaction you had hoped for?

Still, not the same argument.

I didn't order the plate months in advance just in case the price went up.

The whole situation isn't about getting "value". As said many times. I understand. More money = good, Less money = bad.

Pre-sells are ordered to lock in a price. Changes can and do get made before the actual release that can affect prices up or down.

My simple point is that they did the SAME EXACT THING this time as they did with TC. THEY ADDED TO THE CHECKLIST.

Last time, because of the perception that people might lose out, TOPPS sucked.

This time, because of the perception that people might get rich, TOPPS is great again.

Nobody is guaranteed any specific card in their packs, yet just with the chance of on specific card, the change is justified this time vs last time.

What if I'm one of the few people who don't use ebay to justify my case-breaks, and am just in it for making sets or trading? (I know this can be hard for some people to understand ::facepalm:: ). Adding any cards, even one, will make the odds of pulling ANY specific card harder, even base.

And as for an "Agenda," I don't have one. Not eveybody who tries to discuss things is trying to cause problems. I collect for fun and buy a few boxes a year and don't worry about whether or not I pull Red Refractos in every case I buy to make my mortgage payments.

I just find it fascinating that we can go from posts about how horrible it is when prices drop, to posts about "how cheap I got in." Everyone is so quick to one-up others with how cheap they got in, yet they want to complain and moan when it doesn't make them rich. Even when the price stays flat, (meaning that it is still the same as when they bought it!) they get mad.

 

[RZimm11]

How long til this turns into another Topps Chrome? People buy 30 cases and only hit 1 Harper auto cuz they printed 8000 cases of this stuff.

Agreed, it'll quickly go to how crappy BC is!

Even though he's in it (which supposedly makes it great), doesn't mean you'll all be getting them.

 

[cgilmo]

now you see it (posts) now you don't

this will stay on topic!

 

[PeteD]

I thought JP was a refined, calm, cool, not ruffled easily guy.

I WILL BE REPORTING YOU TO ANIMAL CONTROL asap!

 

[011873]

Im quick to bash Topps but also fast on giving them a thumbs up, and they certainly two two here.

but a word of caution to evreryone, DONT GO HEYWIRE on this product now that Harper is in it.

Yes, the thought of getting that card is mouth watering but thats where it should end.
You know how hard it will be to find THAT card, let a lone any of the buy back autos?

Theres only 800 total autos in the entire buy back run....EIGHT HUNDRED.

Now assuming they will be hobby only, anyone know approx. how many CASES of a typical BC product are made?

We might be looking at one buy back every....3....4....5 cases? Now multiply that out just to get a Harper.

Just keep this in mind before you go crazy trying add cases upon cases extra now that this news is out and in the process, drive prices way up.

 

[mredsox89]

Yea, the Strasburg factor was so much more than the Harper one SHOULD be. The value Strasburg brought to case busters was in the base, chrome, parallels, and the outside shot at an auto. I know I sold only my Strasburg stuff, nothing better than an orange base and I had 40%+ of each case paid for. That factor shouldn't appear in BC or BDP since its chasing only one card, but who knows. People may buy up cases for that chase anyways

 

[SportsCardMojo]

now you see it (posts) now you don't

Hahahahaha. :lol:

 

[SportsCardMojo]

The whole situation isn't about getting "value". As said many times. I understand. More money = good, Less money = bad.

Pre-sells are ordered to lock in a price. Changes can and do get made before the actual release that can affect prices up or down.

My simple point is that they did the SAME EXACT THING this time as they did with TC. THEY ADDED TO THE CHECKLIST.

Last time, because of the perception that people might lose out, TOPPS sucked.

This time, because of the perception that people might get rich, TOPPS is great again.

Nobody is guaranteed any specific card in their packs, yet just with the chance of on specific card, the change is justified this time vs last time.

What if I'm one of the few people who don't use ebay to justify my case-breaks, and am just in it for making sets or trading? (I know this can be hard for some people to understand ::facepalm:: ). Adding any cards, even one, will make the odds of pulling ANY specific card harder, even base.

You are making alot of assumptions. I'm not a typical collector. Let me put it this way. When I was at the National, I got in line for the Topps Wrapper Redemption to get Strasburg's Heritage card. Everyone I spoke to was there with the intent to flip the card. I was there to add it to my PC. When I saw how easy it was, I kept getting in line for more. Of the 4 I got, I flipped 1. I still have 3!!!

Although I use ebay, I'm not the rip and flip type. Sure, I try to make back some of my money, but I have more fun ripping through stuff than selling it. If someone else bought the cards and I could just rip the cards for them, I'd be pretty happy. The only reason I sell is so I can rip some more. I "flip" to "RIP". Sure...the money disappears pretty fast, but just like a junkie who spends money on drugs, I get off on bustin wax.

With that in mind, I try to get in at the lowest cost possible. So yes...I "locked" in. Not because I'm trying to maximixe profit. I'm trying to sustain this habit of mine. It's a different paradigm.

People thought I was crazy when I told them I bought a case of Razor Rookie Retro but I wasn't sure if I wanted to open it. Why? Because it cost me so dang on much. So why did I buy it then? To protect myself in the event the prices shot up. In hindsight, we all know it didn't, but who really knows what's going to happen? If we all knew Bowman Baseball was going to go so high this year, I don't think we'd be bustin wax. You could make more money selling boxes than finding a Strasburg card. If I knew that was going to happen, I would have taken my money out of my stocks and bought several cases of Bowman Baseball. I did the same thing with BC and DPP. I saw the price was low, so I bought it before someone had the chance to jack up the price. And good thing I did because it's already up!!! It's not an issue of pulling the Bryce Harper card. It's more of an issue "If I want to bust a case of Bowman Chrome at a good price, I better get it now before the prices jump."

Anyway, like I said, I know exactly the type of people you speak of. I can promise you, I'm not one of them. Before I got into this hobby, I was a bargain shopper. I bought things I didn't need. People think I'm crazy, and I am in some ways. But while everyone is paying 750-800+ for a box of BPP or $900+ for BC, I paid $100 less because I acted quickly. Having Harper in the product is just extra incentive.

I think I have this knee jerk reaction from trading stocks. If you wait too long for a stock to bottom out, sometimes you miss the boat. I had a chance to buy MasterCard when it IPO at $47-50. 2 years later, the price was up in the $200-$300 range. If I had acted a little quicker, I would have made quite a bit of money. But instead I took my time and before I knew it, I was too late.

My opinion of Topps hasn't changed. I still believe the company is apathetic to the people that buy their products. It's apparent in the quality control this year. When you lose competition, you sit back and rest on your laurels. Everyone's been saying that Topps is being greedy. I totally disagree. I think they are being lazy. Did anyone else notice that Topps Chrome Football had better QC than Baseball. And they both were released around the same time? That's probably because Topps still has competition from Panini still in the NFL.

I'm not holding my breath regarding the quality of BC or DPP. If TC, t206 or Bowman Baseball are any indication of what's to come, BC and DPP should follow suit. And yes, it pisses me off to have to constantly send stuff back to Topps to have it replaced. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I was able to purchase a case of something at a really good price. Even with TC Baseball at the price that it's at now, I'm kicking myself. Not for BUYING TC...but for not getting it at the lower price. And guess what? I've only sold a handful of the pulls I got from TC...and I pulled 3 Strasburg Autos out of my case!!!

And lastly, it is always about value. I can't stress this enough. A successful business is ALL about creating "VALUE" for your customers. When you don't create value, you lose touch with the people that keep you in business. If Topps keeps putting out crap, it will eventually come around and bite them. Think housing bubble. What goes up, must eventually come down. Think of this...what happens after Strasburg and Harper have had their run. Are there any other really hot prospects in the "near future" pipeline? Who will be the next Harper? or the next Strasburg. Technically, it could be years before we see the next phenom. So what will Topps do then when they have no one left to exploit?