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muskiesfan

New member
Aug 7, 2008
12,531
0
Murfreesboro, TN
I honestly do not see how this is so shady. With the MLBPA giving Topps a huge advantage and free reign in the prospect and rookie market, UD wanted to do something to compete with that market. So they fund an outside company and look at the impact it had. Positive or negative, Razor made an impact on the card (prospect) community.

Honestly, with that amount of bitching people do about UD, do you really think it would have helped Razor had people known they were backed by UD? Topps makes just as many and just as big of mistakes as UD does, but a lot of people give them a pass because A) They're Topps and have been around forever and B) Chrome is king in the prospecting world. Baseball is all about tradition and the oldest current card producing company falls right in line with that. Razor would have had another hurdle to try and cross had they announced their relationship with UD.

My final thought is this. Card companies are accountable to us for what we buy. If we're shorted an auto, pull a damaged card, redeeming a card, etc, etc. I think a lot of people would be amazed at the "shady" practices that every card company uses. So what UD and Razor denied they had a relationship. Big deal. In the grand scheme of things, was it really our business? Do they need to let us know how or by whom they are funded? Those who oppose Razor are 99.9% majoritively opposed to UD as well. So this is just another reason for them to cry foul. That's another valid reason for keeping the partnership secret. At the end of the day, more choices and more competition are better for us collectors than slimming it down to just Topps like so many people want to do. Look at what Razor joining the game did to Topps, ie adding Aflac autos, trying to beef up their BDP checklist, etc. When only Topps is making baseball cards, the hobby will slide and it will be time for me to focus strictly on cards made before the Topps monopoly.



Joe
 

Wes

OG
Administrator
ru4scuba said:
LLWesMan said:
Is there some kind of blockade on UD creating a prospect set equivalent to Razor? Why not just have UD Sig Series? Was it simply to shroud the product in mystery? I'm quite confident a UD Sig Series would have outsold Razor tenfold.

The MLBPA.

I find it hard to believe, especially with the release of this memo, that the MLBPA had no information regarding UD owning Razor. Simply using Razor as a front was enough to avoid the MLBPA's wrath? I'm not sure who that says more about, UD or the MLBPA.
 

chrome_ball

New member
Aug 7, 2008
1,139
0
Michigan
cgilmo, maybe Razor being a sponsor of FCB did not impact your feelings towards them, but I am sure it impacted others' feelings towards the company. I tend to believe that when a site allows someone to be a sponsor they trust that the sponsor is on the up and up and will be honest with the members of the site.

For example, I had never ordered from Atl Sports Cards (or heard of them for that matter) before I saw that they were a sponsor of FCB. I decided to place an order with them for 2008 Prime Cuts since they were a sponsor of this site. I assumed that since they were permitted to be a sponsor, then they were a trusted company. I have since placed other orders with Atlanta, all of which have been terrific.

Now, I don't want to put words into Matt's (ballerskrip) mouth, but that could have been what he was referring to when he made the comment about many people backing Razor because they were a sponsor.
 

ru4scuba

New member
Aug 7, 2008
2,239
0
San Francisco Bay Area
LLWesMan said:
ru4scuba said:
LLWesMan said:
Is there some kind of blockade on UD creating a prospect set equivalent to Razor? Why not just have UD Sig Series? Was it simply to shroud the product in mystery? I'm quite confident a UD Sig Series would have outsold Razor tenfold.

The MLBPA.

I find it hard to believe, especially with the release of this memo, that the MLBPA had no information regarding UD owning Razor. Simply using Razor as a front was enough to avoid the MLBPA's wrath? I'm not sure who that says more about, UD or the MLBPA.

The memo pretty much said they speculated but did not have proof. At this point, no information has been released on how the MLBPA will be handling the situation.
 

Jaypers

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
48,967
1,484
IL
Okay, campers, rise and shine. Don't forget your booties because it's cold out there today.

It's cold out there every day. What is this, Miami Beach?

Not hardly. You can expect hazardous travel later with that blizzard thing.

"That blizzard thing"? Here's the report. The National Weather Service is calling for a big blizzard thing.

They are. But there's another reason why today is especially exciting.

Especially cold.

The big question on everybody's lips-

On their chapped lips.

Do you think Phil will come out and see his shadow?

Punxsutawney Phil.

That's right, woodchuck chuckers. It's Groundhog Day!
 

ChasHawk

New member
Sep 4, 2008
22,482
0
Belvidere, Illinois
Joe,

The reason so many people are calling it shady and getting upset about it is because the few people who initially called this issue into question were basically beaten over the head with denials.

muskiesfan said:
I honestly do not see how this is so shady. With the MLBPA giving Topps a huge advantage and free reign in the prospect and rookie market, UD wanted to do something to compete with that market. So they fund an outside company and look at the impact it had. Positive or negative, Razor made an impact on the card (prospect) community.

Honestly, with that amount of bitching people do about UD, do you really think it would have helped Razor had people known they were backed by UD? Topps makes just as many and just as big of mistakes as UD does, but a lot of people give them a pass because A) They're Topps and have been around forever and B) Chrome is king in the prospecting world. Baseball is all about tradition and the oldest current card producing company falls right in line with that. Razor would have had another hurdle to try and cross had they announced their relationship with UD.

My final thought is this. Card companies are accountable to us for what we buy. If we're shorted an auto, pull a damaged card, redeeming a card, etc, etc. I think a lot of people would be amazed at the "shady" practices that every card company uses. So what UD and Razor denied they had a relationship. Big deal. In the grand scheme of things, was it really our business? Do they need to let us know how or by whom they are funded? Those who oppose Razor are 99.9% majoritively opposed to UD as well. So this is just another reason for them to cry foul. That's another valid reason for keeping the partnership secret. At the end of the day, more choices and more competition are better for us collectors than slimming it down to just Topps like so many people want to do. Look at what Razor joining the game did to Topps, ie adding Aflac autos, trying to beef up their BDP checklist, etc. When only Topps is making baseball cards, the hobby will slide and it will be time for me to focus strictly on cards made before the Topps monopoly.



Joe
 

ChasHawk

New member
Sep 4, 2008
22,482
0
Belvidere, Illinois
Yet the thread has 300+ views and 40+ comments :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

Jaypers said:
Okay, campers, rise and shine. Don't forget your booties because it's cold out there today.

It's cold out there every day. What is this, Miami Beach?

Not hardly. You can expect hazardous travel later with that blizzard thing.

"That blizzard thing"? Here's the report. The National Weather Service is calling for a big blizzard thing.

They are. But there's another reason why today is especially exciting.

Especially cold.

The big question on everybody's lips-

On their chapped lips.

Do you think Phil will come out and see his shadow?

Punxsutawney Phil.

That's right, woodchuck chuckers. It's Groundhog Day!
 

KandKCards

New member
Aug 8, 2008
2,912
0
2 things. First, the financial commitment Razor made to these first few products was massive, and there is no way all that money came out of Brian's pocket. Second, regardless of how good the idea or concept was, they apparently lied directly to the general public. That's pretty bad. No way in hell am I ever buying anymore of that stuff.
 

soccerman034

New member
Aug 12, 2008
3,184
0
Edmonton, Alberta
The funny thing? Upper Deck spent more money trying to foil Bowman than to actually try and produce better products ::facepalm::

~Screw both Bowman and UD.....Donruss for life!~
 

flightposite

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
2,999
0
KandKCards said:
2 things. First, the financial commitment Razor made to these first few products was massive, and there is no way all that money came out of Brian's pocket. Second, regardless of how good the idea or concept was, they apparently lied directly to the general public. That's pretty bad. No way in hell am I ever buying anymore of that stuff.

If there is no way in hell you will buy Razor, there should be no way in hell you buy UD.

I collect cool looking cards, no matter what company puts them out, and that is why I don't own any Razor cards.
 

flightposite

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
2,999
0
I believe it is the huge amount of Razor product that JP has bought that makes him stand up for the product (he obviously likes it), rather than "being bought off" as you joke.
 

Jaypers

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
48,967
1,484
IL
flightposite said:
I believe it is the huge amount of Razor product that JP has bought that makes him stand up for the product (he obviously likes it), rather than "being bought off" as you joke.

And the funny thing is, I'd still have bought it if Topps had produced it. Neat, huh? :D

Who knew that pointing out how much this topic has been beaten up equated to defending Razor to the death?
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
Here's what I think. Razor has absolutely NO obligation to inform us where they get the money to support their business. So when asked if they were backed by Upper Deck, I would not expect them to be up-front about it, because it's really none of our business. The only thing that should matter to us is the quality of the product they release. Upper Deck backing them financially and them lying about it has nothing to do with the product on the shelves (or on eBay, lol). I think the entire reasoning for UD doing this is so that they could release the first Matt Wieters RC cards without Bowman having his cards a year earlier... and it was a very smart move. JMHO
 

rico08

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
3,219
0
Los Angeles
flightposite said:
I believe it is the huge amount of Razor product that JP has bought that makes him stand up for the product (he obviously likes it), rather than "being bought off" as you joke.

Forget JP, but the last thing ANYONE who invested in Razor wants to see is degradation of the product name.
 

cgilmo

Well-known member
Administrator
Aug 6, 2008
37,213
35
Alpharetta, Georgia, United States
KandKCards said:
Jaypers said:
Okay, campers, rise and shine. Don't forget your booties because it's cold out there today.

It's cold out there every day. What is this, Miami Beach?

Not hardly. You can expect hazardous travel later with that blizzard thing.

"That blizzard thing"? Here's the report. The National Weather Service is calling for a big blizzard thing.

They are. But there's another reason why today is especially exciting.

Especially cold.

The big question on everybody's lips-

On their chapped lips.

Do you think Phil will come out and see his shadow?

Punxsutawney Phil.

That's right, woodchuck chuckers. It's Groundhog Day!
How much does Brian charge you rent for the sublet you have in his pants?


last warning


accuse anyone of this agian, and you are no longer welcome here.
 
why does no one rush to defend topps or upper deck in the threads bashing them? i read topps customer service sucks and ~great job ud~ threads and everyone jumps on! those threads are posted here with much much much more regularity and are much much much more vicious. yet without anyone standing up for them...

nothing but an observation...
 

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