Whats a white boy have to do to get love in the NBA?

[Tomlinson21RB]

The NBA is dying.

Say hello to the popularity of the NBA of the 70's.

Any sport that can get 100k+ in attendance for an All-Star Game is anything but dying.

MJ got over 60,000 people to watch a Hawks game back in 98...again, a Hawks game.

The NBA is a dying breed and is desperately in need of a universally marketbale savior. Maybe MJ should lace em up for one more go around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... an_decline

You're joking right? LeBron and Kobe are a universally marketable item. Come on do some research.

Universally marketbale? Is that exclusively minorities? Try appealing to all colors of the spectrum.

So only white players are marketable to all colors of the spectrum?

 

[bballcardkid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... an_decline[/url]

You're joking right? LeBron and Kobe are a universally marketable item. Come on do some research.

Universally marketbale? Is that exclusively minorities? Try appealing to all colors of the spectrum.

So only white players are marketable to all colors of the spectrum?[/quote:30307nhi]

Not sure where you come up with that. Ever heard of a guy by the name of Michael Jordan? Everybody seemed to like him, and the ratings proof that. I don't mean to hijack this thread as I'm just continuing a tangent that someone else started by throwing out the facts. If people don't want to accept that, whatever.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... an_decline[/url]

You're joking right? LeBron and Kobe are a universally marketable item. Come on do some research.

Universally marketbale? Is that exclusively minorities? Try appealing to all colors of the spectrum.

So only white players are marketable to all colors of the spectrum?[/quote:2de9iues]

Not sure where you come up with that. Ever heard of a guy by the name of Michael Jordan? Everybody seemed to like him.[/quote:2de9iues]

Then I guess I don't understand your statement. You're saying Lebron and Kobe aren't marketable to whites or asians or hispanics...? If that's the case I couldn't disagree more, and maybe I just made the wrong connections with your statement. If anything, I just think it's a shift in culture. MJ was just as much of a ****** as Kobe, and was in just as many commercials as Lebron. MJ had his off the court issues just like a number of other athletes, and his fierce competitiveness often took over for sportsmanship. We overlooked that because he was the best in the game. Maybe because there wasn't a constant stream of information, talk radio, internet clips, and TMZ. Maybe it's because we've made the decision as a culture to hate those who excel. Look at every major sport now, and black or white the best players are often hated. Derek Jeter? Peyton Manning? Tom Brady? Alex Rodriguez? All those guys take a ton of **** from anyone who isn't a fan of their team. Start MJ's career right now and I'm confident that all the people shitting on Lebron and Kobe would be doing it to MJ.

 

[kdailey4315]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... an_decline[/url]

You're joking right? LeBron and Kobe are a universally marketable item. Come on do some research.

Universally marketbale? Is that exclusively minorities? Try appealing to all colors of the spectrum.

So only white players are marketable to all colors of the spectrum?[/quote:1bbczonx]

Not sure where you come up with that. Ever heard of a guy by the name of Michael Jordan? Everybody seemed to like him.[/quote:1bbczonx]

Then I guess I don't understand your statement. You're saying Lebron and Kobe aren't marketable to whites or asians or hispanics...? If that's the case I couldn't disagree more, and maybe I just made the wrong connections with your statement. If anything, I just think it's a shift in culture. MJ was just as much of a ****** as Kobe, and was in just as many commercials as Lebron. MJ had his off the court issues just like a number of other athletes, and his fierce competitiveness often took over for sportsmanship. We overlooked that because he was the best in the game. Maybe because there wasn't a constant stream of information, talk radio, internet clips, and TMZ. Maybe it's because we've made the decision as a culture to hate those who excel. Look at every major sport now, and black or white the best players are often hated. Derek Jeter? Peyton Manning? Tom Brady? Alex Rodriguez? All those guys take a ton of shat from anyone who isn't a fan of their team. Start MJ's career right now and I'm confident that all the people quit swearing on Lebron and Kobe would be doing it to MJ.[/quote:1bbczonx]

Wow. We've disagreed in many other threads Tomlinson but I couldn't agree with you more here. You hit the nail on the head with that post.

 

[bballcardkid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... an_decline[/url]

You're joking right? LeBron and Kobe are a universally marketable item. Come on do some research.

Universally marketbale? Is that exclusively minorities? Try appealing to all colors of the spectrum.

So only white players are marketable to all colors of the spectrum?[/quote:3onw3y9h]

Not sure where you come up with that. Ever heard of a guy by the name of Michael Jordan? Everybody seemed to like him.[/quote:3onw3y9h]

Then I guess I don't understand your statement. You're saying Lebron and Kobe aren't marketable to whites or asians or hispanics...? If that's the case I couldn't disagree more, and maybe I just made the wrong connections with your statement. If anything, I just think it's a shift in culture. MJ was just as much of a ****** as Kobe, and was in just as many commercials as Lebron. MJ had his off the court issues just like a number of other athletes, and his fierce competitiveness often took over for sportsmanship. We overlooked that because he was the best in the game. Maybe because there wasn't a constant stream of information, talk radio, internet clips, and TMZ. Maybe it's because we've made the decision as a culture to hate those who excel. Look at every major sport now, and black or white the best players are often hated. Derek Jeter? Peyton Manning? Tom Brady? Alex Rodriguez? All those guys take a ton of shat from anyone who isn't a fan of their team. Start MJ's career right now and I'm confident that all the people quit swearing on Lebron and Kobe would be doing it to MJ.[/quote:3onw3y9h]

People have always tried to knock the guy off of the pedistal, even with Jordan, but that doesn't mean they aren't marketbale personalities that can attract viewers and fans. But with Jordan, it seems the only people who disliked him during his hay day were people who thought he was a ball hog. Literally that is the only criticism I remember him getting. With guys today, we can take Arod for instance. Before his steroid breakout, people hated him because he was mister perfect and always tried to appease everyone. With Kobe, people have hated him since he came into the league because he had a cocky attitude and acted like he was Gods gift to the planet. With Lebron, there are numerous faults. For one, the guy can't conduct an interview to save his life, and that probably speaks of his immaturity or lack of intelligence, etc. But he also carries a major attitude, and it's not like I'm criticizing confidence in yourself, as your suppose to have confidence if you want to win, but what made Jordan so appealing to everyone aside from the fact that he was the greatest player ever to play the game (and I will argue that till the day I die), he went out there, busted his ass, and he did so with a calm, classy demeanor. He acknowledged, and you can watch Jordan video after Jordan video that explains this, he acknoledged that every single night could have been a fan's last chance to see him in person, and he wanted to put on the best show he could possibly put on, every night. He never strutted out onto the floor acting like his ass didn't smell like a pile of stinkypoo (like how LBJ does every night he straps it up). He walked out just like everyone else, ripped his opponent's heart out, conducted a solid interview after the game and created numerous neutral commercials afterwards. By neutral commericals, I mean, not marketed towards one group of people. You look at commercials now, and even Jordan's honestly, they go after the inner city kids, street ballers, and minorities, that's it. Old Jordan commericals marketed his products to everyone, not just the hip hop community. I mean seriously, could you see Kobe Bryant or Lebron James starring in a Looney Tunes movie like Space Jam? I sure couldn't. People just loved MJ and couldn't get enough of him because he handled himself with class every single day. The NBA didn't have that before he came into the league, and it doesn't have it now, and the ratings prove that.

 

[andyduke86]

Lebron's arrogance is unparalleled in sports today.

The NBA's problem is terrible attendance, which is caused by a variety of factors. Bill Simmons actually wrote a nice article about this very topic a day or two ago.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

Lebron's arrogance is unparalleled in sports today.

That might be true. You have to go all the way back to MJ to find someone that tops Lebron. Common tie? Both were heads and shoulders above the rest of the league in terms of talent.

 

[KandKCards]

I remain shocked that there is anyone in the universe that watches the NBA. I'll watch Lebron, but I literally just can't figure out how anyone could watch a team without Lebron or Kobe or Wade more than a few times a year.
And for people who think the NBA is alive and well, read Simmons column from yesterday.

 

[Reyes7tulo2]

I don't know how any real basketball fan can say that they don't enjoy the NBA. There isn't one team in the league that doesn't have at least one player that I would be interested in watching play. My one complaint about the NBA is that we don't get a chance to see the guys on smaller market teams at all. Guys like Monta Ellis, Brandon Jennings, and Kevin Durant should be seen on national television more often imo. I've seen enough Celtics games already this year.

 

[rymflaherty]

While the All-Star game attendance is encouraging, I think it has just as much, if not more, to do with the stadium.

If they had the WNBA game in that stadium, I'd buy a ticket if I was anywhere near the area. Simply to go and check that place out.

I'll have to check out that Simmons article - because I agree it seems things are not looking good financially, but I also agree with those saying there are a lot of young talented players right now in the league.


As for the original question - there was an ESPN story a few months back (forget who the players were) but it was a couple white (and very good) college players that came out and they were talking about the stigma and borderline racism that they had to put up with everyday trying to "prove" they can play in the NBA.
Personally I kind of figure it is what it is - maybe a lot of them actually aren't good enough.......though I can't help but think it is a little hypocritical, because if it was the other way around just think of all the people that would be perched atop their soapbox - for ex. the lack of African-American quarterbacks and coaches, etc. etc.

 

[KOBEARODLT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... an_decline[/url]

You're joking right? LeBron and Kobe are a universally marketable item. Come on do some research.

Universally marketbale? Is that exclusively minorities? Try appealing to all colors of the spectrum.

So only white players are marketable to all colors of the spectrum?[/quote:5u3eldm5]

Not sure where you come up with that. Ever heard of a guy by the name of Michael Jordan? Everybody seemed to like him.[/quote:5u3eldm5]

Then I guess I don't understand your statement. You're saying Lebron and Kobe aren't marketable to whites or asians or hispanics...? If that's the case I couldn't disagree more, and maybe I just made the wrong connections with your statement. If anything, I just think it's a shift in culture. MJ was just as much of a ****** as Kobe, and was in just as many commercials as Lebron. MJ had his off the court issues just like a number of other athletes, and his fierce competitiveness often took over for sportsmanship. We overlooked that because he was the best in the game. Maybe because there wasn't a constant stream of information, talk radio, internet clips, and TMZ. Maybe it's because we've made the decision as a culture to hate those who excel. Look at every major sport now, and black or white the best players are often hated. Derek Jeter? Peyton Manning? Tom Brady? Alex Rodriguez? All those guys take a ton of shat from anyone who isn't a fan of their team. Start MJ's career right now and I'm confident that all the people quit swearing on Lebron and Kobe would be doing it to MJ.[/quote:5u3eldm5]

Wow. We've disagreed in many other threads Tomlinson but I couldn't agree with you more here. You hit the nail on the head with that post.[/quote:5u3eldm5]

definately on tomlinsons side here.....bballcardkid you are crazy if you think nba is not popular, their is a ridiculous amount of STAR talent in the league right now

 

[KOBEARODLT]

I remain shocked that there is anyone in the universe that watches the NBA. I'll watch Lebron, but I literally just can't figure out how anyone could watch a team without Lebron or Kobe or Wade more than a few times a year.
And for people who think the NBA is alive and well, read Simmons column from yesterday.

because simmons is god and knows everything about whats goin on internally in the nba right?

 

[andyduke86]

You guys are crazy if you think the league is in good shape. Attendance is down big time almost everywhere and there are quite a few teams that are hemmorhaging money. The league is absolutely not in good shape. If the teams can't get people to fill the seats they will not be very successful, that is the bottom line of the business. There are just a handful of teams with legit star power that the average fan cares about (Lebron, Kobe, a few others). The NBA may be more "popular" than it was just a few years ago overall but that doesn't mean the league is in better shape- the finances and attendance say otherwise.

 

[KOBEARODLT]

You guys are crazy if you think the league is in good shape. Attendance is down big time almost everywhere and there are quite a few teams that are hemmorhaging money. The league is absolutely not in good shape. If the teams can't get people to fill the seats they will not be very successful, that is the bottom line of the business. There are just a handful of teams with legit star power that the average fan cares about (Lebron, Kobe, a few others). The NBA may be more "popular" than it was just a few years ago overall but that doesn't mean the league is in better shape- the finances and attendance say otherwise.

so what about mlb.....there is less people attending mlb games than nba

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

You guys are crazy if you think the league is in good shape. Attendance is down big time almost everywhere and there are quite a few teams that are hemmorhaging money. The league is absolutely not in good shape. If the teams can't get people to fill the seats they will not be very successful, that is the bottom line of the business. There are just a handful of teams with legit star power that the average fan cares about (Lebron, Kobe, a few others). The NBA may be more "popular" than it was just a few years ago overall but that doesn't mean the league is in better shape- the finances and attendance say otherwise.

so what about mlb.....there is less people attending mlb games than nba

I agree. I think sports in general, other than the NFL, are down across the board. If you're talking just about attendance or tv ratings then yes the NBA is in trouble. If you're talking quality of product being offered then the NBA hasn't been this strong in a LONG time.

 

[andyduke86]

You guys are crazy if you think the league is in good shape. Attendance is down big time almost everywhere and there are quite a few teams that are hemmorhaging money. The league is absolutely not in good shape. If the teams can't get people to fill the seats they will not be very successful, that is the bottom line of the business. There are just a handful of teams with legit star power that the average fan cares about (Lebron, Kobe, a few others). The NBA may be more "popular" than it was just a few years ago overall but that doesn't mean the league is in better shape- the finances and attendance say otherwise.

so what about mlb.....there is less people attending mlb games than nba

You are all about making ridiculous comparisons in an attempt to simply avoid a fact that completely undermines your assertions. Apples to Oranges.

Your comparison to MLB is simply not accurate and shows that you haven't put much thought into it. First of all, so far this year the NBA team with the highest average attendance is the Bulls, who average 20,765 a game. On the other hand, in 2009 only 3 MLB teams had attendance averages lower than that (Pitt, Marlins, A's). MLB averages approximately 30,000 per game, far more than any NBA team could possibly have for a game. MLB teams have 81 home games, so that's about twice as many chances to make money. That also means more in TV revenue, which is where MLB teams really make their money.

I do agree that the quality of the NBA is as high as it has been in a while. However, if the quality of the product is pretty good yet attendance and finances are dropping, that is not a very good sign then is it?

 

[Weimer]

You guys are crazy if you think the league is in good shape. Attendance is down big time almost everywhere and there are quite a few teams that are hemmorhaging money. The league is absolutely not in good shape. If the teams can't get people to fill the seats they will not be very successful, that is the bottom line of the business. There are just a handful of teams with legit star power that the average fan cares about (Lebron, Kobe, a few others). The NBA may be more "popular" than it was just a few years ago overall but that doesn't mean the league is in better shape- the finances and attendance say otherwise.

so what about mlb.....there is less people attending mlb games than nba

You are all about making ridiculous comparisons in an attempt to simply avoid a fact that completely undermines your assertions. Apples to Oranges.

Your comparison to MLB is simply not accurate and shows that you haven't put much thought into it. First of all, so far this year the NBA team with the highest average attendance is the Bulls, who average 20,765 a game. On the other hand, in 2009 only 3 MLB teams had attendance averages lower than that (Pitt, Marlins, A's). MLB averages approximately 30,000 per game, far more than any NBA team could possibly have for a game. MLB teams have 81 home games, so that's about twice as many chances to make money. That also means more in TV revenue, which is where MLB teams really make their money.

I do agree that the quality of the NBA is as high as it has been in a while. However, if the quality of the product is pretty good yet attendance and finances are dropping, that is not a very good sign then is it?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

So you accuse someone else of not putting much thought into their argument and then turn around and do the same thing. Lets look at percentage attendance wise, as in how full the arena is not how many people are attending the games number wise. The lowest % attendance in the NBA is the Nets and 76ers tied at 68.2% of arena capacity for this season. In comparison, that would place them 14th in attendance % in the MLB for this past season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/homePct
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homePct

The NBA draws more people on a capacity percentage basis. The reason MLB games draw bigger crowds number wise is because the stadiums hold a whole lot more people than any NBA arena does. The fact of the matter is you think you know more about the NBA and it's "financial problems" than you do. You're cherry picking your argument and suiting it to your needs to defend your position, which isn't even correct.

 

[Weimer]

If you want to argue the NBA is in trouble compared to even the MLB try using some info that actually supports your argument. Such as operating income, revenue, current value of the team, their debt to value ratio. Attendance figures don't do anything to support your argument when even the worst NBA franchise is filling up 68% of the arena on a nightly basis and that's good enough for the middle of the pack in the MLB.

 

[andyduke86]

You guys are crazy if you think the league is in good shape. Attendance is down big time almost everywhere and there are quite a few teams that are hemmorhaging money. The league is absolutely not in good shape. If the teams can't get people to fill the seats they will not be very successful, that is the bottom line of the business. There are just a handful of teams with legit star power that the average fan cares about (Lebron, Kobe, a few others). The NBA may be more "popular" than it was just a few years ago overall but that doesn't mean the league is in better shape- the finances and attendance say otherwise.

so what about mlb.....there is less people attending mlb games than nba

You are all about making ridiculous comparisons in an attempt to simply avoid a fact that completely undermines your assertions. Apples to Oranges.

Your comparison to MLB is simply not accurate and shows that you haven't put much thought into it. First of all, so far this year the NBA team with the highest average attendance is the Bulls, who average 20,765 a game. On the other hand, in 2009 only 3 MLB teams had attendance averages lower than that (Pitt, Marlins, A's). MLB averages approximately 30,000 per game, far more than any NBA team could possibly have for a game. MLB teams have 81 home games, so that's about twice as many chances to make money. That also means more in TV revenue, which is where MLB teams really make their money.

I do agree that the quality of the NBA is as high as it has been in a while. However, if the quality of the product is pretty good yet attendance and finances are dropping, that is not a very good sign then is it?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

So you accuse someone else of not putting much thought into their argument and then turn around and do the same thing. Lets look at percentage attendance wise, as in how full the arena is not how many people are attending the games number wise. The lowest % attendance in the NBA is the Nets and 76ers tied at 68.2% of arena capacity for this season. In comparison, that would place them 14th in attendance % in the MLB for this past season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/homePct
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homePct

The NBA draws more people on a capacity percentage basis. The reason MLB games draw bigger crowds number wise is because the stadiums hold a whole lot more people than any NBA arena does. The fact of the matter is you think you know more about the NBA and it's "financial problems" than you do. You're cherry picking your argument and suiting it to your needs to defend your position, which isn't even correct.

You're accusing me of cherry picking stats and you are using % of capacity as your argument? Get real.

How is my statement of fact not correct? MLB draws significantly larger crowds than the NBA on a per game basis. Many NBA teams are hemmorhaging money. That's why there is the upcoming labor strife and impending strike/lockout. Those, my friend, are facts, not opinions. Again, all I was doing was refuting what the previous poster said, which was that "there is less people attending MLB games than NBA games," which is simply an inaccurate statement.

The raw numbers are what matter because I'm pretty sure the actual number of tickets sold is more important than the % of capacity when it comes to the bottom line of team finances. Also, the NBA is known for greatly inflating their attendance figures. There is no chance in Hell the Bobcats are actually drawing nearly 15,200 people a game. Realistically, it's a reach to think they are even actually getting 10,000 a game. They probably have actually had 15K people at a game 2 or 3 times this season.

 

[andyduke86]

If you want to argue the NBA is in trouble compared to even the MLB try using some info that actually supports your argument. Such as operating income, revenue, current value of the team, their debt to value ratio. Attendance figures don't do anything to support your argument when even the worst NBA franchise is filling up 68% of the arena on a nightly basis and that's good enough for the middle of the pack in the MLB.

I'm not arguing that. Please read what I wrote my response to. I know reading comprehension obviously wasn't your best subject. Responses like yours are so asinine that there is really no way to respond to them. I'm not trying to be mean, but what you are saying is simply ludicrous, I can't help it.

If you don't think that NBA teams are not doing well financially you are either delusional or just choose to not believe the facts. The financial troubles of some NBA teams have been well documented in the past few months and years.

As to info that "actually supports my argument," Lower attendance = lower revenue. Team values are plummeting for most teams (look at the recent Bobcats sale). Why in the hell do you think there is an impending lockout? You want to talk about using stats that actually show how well a team is doing and you choose percentage of capacity. Really, that is laughable.