Who is the home run king? Maris or Bonds?

[fkw]

hahahahahahaha

Maris? WTF!

when is 61 more than 73... or even 70, 66, 65, 64, or 63?

at best... that 2 year wonder short porch blooper known as Roger Maris is ONLY the AMERICAN LEAGUE single season HR record holder,... far from the All Time HR record holder (275 total) and at best 7th on the all time MLB single season record...

anyone who thinks otherwise is a bonehead fool with blinders on! lol

thanks for the laugh aloha

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

While I recognize Bonds' record, I think of it the same way as jaywalking laws - its on the books, but I don't think highly of it*.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

holy XXXX! Frank is posting. CU must be down for everyone! LOL

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Does anyone think we should add a few homers and/or hits to the totals of batters who faced Clemens and Pettite in their PED periods? Griffey hit 56 HRs in 97 and 98. What could he have done if he hadn't faced pitchers who were juicing?

for anyone to pretend that they know what every- or even anyone was doing at any time is preposterous. Baseball won't ever put an asterisk next to anything because it is too busy wearing its black eyes.

Go to the Hall of Fame and walk into the statistics room. There is a very small plaque about waist high at the entrance that says something along the lines of "we realize that some of these numbers may be controversial, but we present them as they happened, because that's all we can do." Interesting little memorial, that plaque.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

While I recognize Bonds' record, I think of it the same way as jaywalking laws - its on the books, but I don't think highly of it*.

You understand that this is the same logic that all but "allowed" players to take steroids.

Is something really illegal/outlawed if there is no punishment? Not referring to no enforcing a law (like most places regarding jaywalking), but truly no punishment.

While steroids were in baseball decades prior to Selig taking over the helm, the steroid issue is his lasting legacy. He got fat along with the owners and players while knowing about rampant usage. Only until Congress got involved and when his buddy Hank Aaron started fearing for his HR record did Selig really seem to care. By and large, the players of the 70s and 80s walked away without major public suspicion, but the issue was no less prevalent. The players from the 90s - now all have to bear the burden of "Steroid Era."

If they get annoyed with that categorization, blame the Union, blame Selig, blame the fans, blame the media as everyone turned their eyes because "chicks (and dudes) love the long ball."

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

Maris? WTF!

when is 61 more than 73... or even 70, 66, 65, 64, or 63?

at best... that 2 year wonder short porch blooper known as Roger Maris is ONLY the AMERICAN LEAGUE single season HR record holder,... far from the All Time HR record holder (275 total) and at best 7th on the all time MLB single season record...

anyone who thinks otherwise is a bonehead fool with blinders on! lol

thanks for the laugh aloha

LOL have you ever looked at his statistics? He was ELITE for 6 years, averaging 6.0 WAR per 650 PA from 1959-1964. He also averaged 40 home runs 111 RBIs, .890 OPS, 142 OPS+/ 162 games over that span. He was not a two year wonder, he was an elite player who suffered from injury problems and had to retire early. He finished his career with a 127 OPS+. He was essentially Dave Winfield with a good glove and excellent baserunning abilities, without the longevity.

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

While I recognize Bonds' record, I think of it the same way as jaywalking laws - its on the books, but I don't think highly of it*.

Haha

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You understand that this is the same logic that all but "allowed" players to take steroids.

Is something really illegal/outlawed if there is no punishment? Not referring to no enforcing a law (like most places regarding jaywalking), but truly no punishment.

While steroids were in baseball decades prior to Selig taking over the helm, the steroid issue is his lasting legacy. He got fat along with the owners and players while knowing about rampant usage. Only until Congress got involved and when his buddy Hank Aaron started fearing for his HR record did Selig really seem to care. By and large, the players of the 70s and 80s walked away without major public suspicion, but the issue was no less prevalent. The players from the 90s - now all have to bear the burden of "Steroid Era."

If they get annoyed with that categorization, blame the Union, blame Selig, blame the fans, blame the media as everyone turned their eyes because "chicks (and dudes) love the long ball."

Who cares about punishment? If its against the law, its against the law, period. Good citizens abide by the law, but you would punish them for being good with your philosophy.

But this is entirely beside the point as Bonds and the other users ARE being punished. One way they're being punished is by their not getting into the Hall.

Funny how the system works.

 

[stricklcp]

I'm with Chris Davis......when Maris set the record, baseball (I assume) was pure. Free of supplements and PEDs. With the understanding that all things progress at different rates, I think the past stands the test of time in this case.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Who cares about punishment? If its against the law, its against the law, period. Good citizens abide by the law, but you would punish them for being good with your philosophy.

But this is entirely beside the point as Bonds and the other users ARE being punished. One way they're being punished is by their not getting into the Hall.

Funny how the system works.

"Good citizens" speed every single day. Why? Because unless you're driving through a school zone, you're not getting pulled over for going 5 over, so let's not play this comical "good citizens abide by the law" routine. And no one is punishing people for being "good" - not me, and not the police.

When a player is part of a union, they have signed a dotted line to show that the union now represents them do they not? The union has pushed back for years on testing and punishment, the same union that knowingly houses the "good citizens" and "bad citizens." All of the members of the union (and all involved with baseball) benefited from steroid usage. Increased revenue meant bigger dollars for players, agents, owners, and yes...the union. If you knowingly harbor a "bad citizen," let alone what has been assumed by many as more than 50% of your membership, the entire organization falls under suspicion. That's not "punishment" - that's the reality of guilt by association.

As far as the "punishment" that Bonds and Clemens may be receiving, it's comically hypocritical. Being judged by people who all but encouraged usage. By people who made a living writing about the exploits of these newly perceived "common thieves" of history and the record books.

So no, I don't believe that it's "funny how the system works," it's comically hypocritical how the system doesn't work. Until McGwire was up for induction, there was no uproar or political posturing stances on the ballot...but to believe that no one prior to McGwire was under serious suspicion is comical at best.

The "punishment" that the game is facing is that no one has addressed it honestly and openly because all parties want to protect their shady past and present. This false uproar from the writers who now have been "saved" and shown the light, after years of corroborating in the depths of the "cheating culture," is sheer comedy.

 

[cards01fan]

Not going to quote hockeyplayers post but there is a lot of truth in there. For the record I despise bonds but he holds the record. It might be easier to swallow if he wasn't such an ass. Does anyone find it odd that after Maris all of the hr totals are by national league players?

 

[MansGame]

Not going to quote hockeyplayers post but there is a lot of truth in there. For the record I despise bonds but he holds the record. It might be easier to swallow if he wasn't such an ass. Does anyone find it odd that after Maris all of the hr totals are by national league players?

Yea because the National League cheats!




jk - that is pretty interesting.

 

[GUCD231]

#25 Barry Lamar Bonds 73/762

And I enjoyed watching every second of it.

 

[Brewer Andy]

#25 Barry Lamar Bonds 73/762

And I enjoyed watching every second of it.

Sad part is, I would not have known the 762 part off the top of my head. There's something very wrong with that

 

[MansGame]

Sad part is, I would not have known the 762 part off the top of my head. There's something very wrong with that

+1

 

[GUCD231]

It's understandable,755 stood for 33 yrs.You have 28 more years to sink in.

Sad part is, I would not have known the 762 part off the top of my head. There's something very wrong with that

 

[MansGame]

It's understandable,755 stood for 33 yrs.You have 28 more years to sink in.

 

[Wes]

The issue of steroids isn't a slippery slope to me, and I'm really just talking about the records. He hit the home runs, but they shouldn't count. Like in cycling, the olympics, college athletics, Nascar.... if you're found to be cheating after your enhanced-performance, they erase it.

Even slipperier. Now you want to make the HR's not count? So we change all his HR's into outs? What about the doubles he hit? The walks he received? Do we remove the World Series winners for each of the years where a verified cheater was on the roster? Vacating champions and entire stat lines is absurd. The records are by definition records of things that happened - things that counted. Revisionist history is just that, revisionist.

 

[MansGame]

Even slipperier. Now you want to make the HR's not count? So we change all his HR's into outs? What about the doubles he hit? The walks he received? Do we remove the World Series winners for each of the years where a verified cheater was on the roster? Vacating champions and entire stat lines is absurd. The records are by definition records of things that happened - things that counted. Revisionist history is just that, revisionist.

Correct me if I'm wrong but for things like the cycling, I don't think they go back and award the guy who got 2nd the 1st place spot? Same with like the Heisman Trophy in NCAA Football... if taken away from the winner, they don't then award it to the next guy right? I think you have a point with somethings but usually I think they just remove the record and keep moving... don't think they need to go back and recalculate every game score, etc. Similar to not having to go back and figure who would of won each NCAA Football game if Reggie Bush wasn't on USC's team the entire year... they just take the trophy, chalk it up as a huge disappointment and keep moving.

 

[VizquelCollector.com]

Even slipperier. Now you want to make the HR's not count? So we change all his HR's into outs? What about the doubles he hit? The walks he received? Do we remove the World Series winners for each of the years where a verified cheater was on the roster? Vacating champions and entire stat lines is absurd. The records are by definition records of things that happened - things that counted. Revisionist history is just that, revisionist.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. I don't have the best solution but my opinion is that at the very least his stats in the "record book" should be erased. My impression is that statistics are more sacred in baseball than any other major sport. To me allowing Bonds' (and others) monkey-business to be counted is nonsense. It's no different than finding out after the Olympic event that a weightlifter was on steroids- the performance is discounted and award is taken back. You don't hear Bob Costas say "Well since he did actually squat a record 2,877 pounds, albeit pumped full of juice, that's our new WR." Similar to Lance's tour performances, the NCAA vacating wins, the IOC stripping medals and not recognizing records, etc. I can't see how or why MLB recognizes the "accomplishments" of an admitted cheater.