Who was the greatest Post-War pitcher?

[scotty21690]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Here is a fact, Pedro had a better 7 year stretch than any other post war pitcher.

Based on "your calculations", if that is your definition of who is greatest, then by your definition he is greatest.
You even showed him not being in #1 for all categories, so I guess it depends on how much weight you put on each category.
TO me, his domination was compartively short-lived, which to ME, doesn't make him #1,
TO me consecutive isn't as important as dominance longevity.

He was #1 in two of the most important pitching stats, ERA+ and WHIP, and he was friggen 2nd in K/BB!!

The fact of the matter is, while his dominance may have been "short lived", his years of dominance were better than that of Clemens.

 

[scotty21690]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Just to please you, I calculated Clemens ERA over his 7 best non-consecutive seasons you chose and it came out to be 2.45 STILL higher than Pedros over 7 consecutive seasons.

Can you put all the numbers up side by side, not just ERA, in the same manner as you did the 7 consecutive years that "you picked".
I would love to see them....maybe I will agree that Pedro is better than Clemens or Gibson, but I doubt it...You have already earned my respect, but I still haven't ever backed down on any debate on FCBS yet

PS - again, I have always believed that Pedro is one of the best post-season pitchers, i just wouldn't rank him #1....yet...

Baseball reference doesn't allow me to do that, lol. But in terms of ERA, Martinez>>Clemens.

Maybe someone who is more skilled than me can figure the other #'s out (WHIP, K/BB, etc..)

 

[hofautos]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

^^^ I am pretty good with moving numbers around. I will put more effort into it and analyze closer, and who knows, maybe i will change my mind.
I know neither WAR nor most best pitchers lists put the same light on Pedro as you and a couple of people here, so I don't think I will be surprised, but I have no problems giving in, if I see differently. I actually like to be wrong, because it happens so infrequently :lol:

 

[blitzerlover]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

I'd take Maddux without any question.

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Some guy with 5714 K's.

and 7 NO HITTERS and one beat down of robin ventura

Give me Ryan in his prime against anyone, the only who would be close is Pedro. Ryan always played on crap teams. teh mets in the late 60s (minus the WS year.. fluke..) the angels in the 70s, stros in the 80's and rangers in the 90s. it was always Nolan Ryan against the world. sometimes one must look past the "numbers" and look at intangibles and the surroudnings to which they played. he had to try to strike every one out because he didnt know if the guys behind knew how to catch the ball or not and even then trust them to get the out. how can one pitcher have the most K's and best ERA and still lose twice as many as they won in a single season. 24 years = 24 ****** teams.

 

[scotty21690]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Some guy with 5714 K's.

and 7 NO HITTERS

...and 2795 walks.

 

[sheetskout]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Some guy with 5714 K's.

and 7 NO HITTERS

Which mean practically nothing to the team minus 7 wins. The next starts he probably lost.

 

[dano7]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

My first thought was Nolan Ryan. However, if I were betting on a big game, I'd go with Whitey Ford.
DANNY

 

[scotty21690]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

My first thought was Nolan Ryan. However, if I were betting on a big game, I'd go with Whitey Ford.
DANNY

I would take Ford over Ryan anyday. 133 ERA+ to a 112 ERA+, not to mention Ford has the highest W% out of any post war pitcher.

(though that may be slightly due to the fact that he pitched on the Yankees. )

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Some guy with 5714 K's.

and 7 NO HITTERS

Which mean practically nothing to the team minus 7 wins. The next starts he probably lost.

Nolan Ryan had to do it all on his own. NO defense behind him and very little at the plate to help him out. Sometimes we need to look beyond the numbers and the intangibles and what the pitchers had to work with. but here are some numbers: In one season in teh 70s (i think 76) he led the league in Ks and ERA yet lost 2x as mouch as he won. thats crappy defense and crappy offense right there.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

They say Gibson is the reason why MLB lowered the mound five inches. Can you imagine if Johnson was five inches higher?

 

[blitzerlover]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

Some guy with 5714 K's.

and 7 NO HITTERS

Which mean practically nothing to the team minus 7 wins. The next starts he probably lost.

Nolan Ryan had to do it all on his own. NO defense behind him and very little at the plate to help him out. Sometimes we need to look beyond the numbers and the intangibles and what the pitchers had to work with. but here are some numbers: In one season in teh 70s (i think 76) he led the league in Ks and ERA yet lost 2x as mouch as he won. thats crappy defense and crappy offense right there.

If you're going to bring that point up, Steve Carlton would like to have a word with you.

 

[George_Calfas]

Reliance on the Bullpen makes comparing Modern pitchers; ie Johnson to pre-bullpen pitchers; ie Gibson fruitless.

 

[hofautos]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

I'd take Maddux without any question.

^^^ looking at your signature, i smelll bias

 

[hofautos]

Reliance on the Bullpen makes comparing Modern pitchers; ie Johnson to pre-bullpen pitchers; ie Gibson fruitless.

thats a good point... was there no middle relievers then, or the middle relievers lousy back then?
Although in Johnson's prime, didn't he pitch deep??

 

[George_Calfas]

Reliance on the Bullpen makes comparing Modern pitchers; ie Johnson to pre-bullpen pitchers; ie Gibson fruitless.

thats a good point... was there no middle relievers then, or the middle relievers lousy back then?
Although in Johnson's prime, didn't he pitch deep??

Johnson 22 season 100 CG
Gibson 17 Season 255 CG

 

[blitzerlover]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

I'd take Maddux without any question.

^^^ looking at your signature, i smelll bias

Sure I'm slightly biased but Maddux is 1st among post war pitchers in wins. And top 10 all time in strike outs.

 

[hofautos]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

I'd take Maddux without any question.

^^^ looking at your signature, i smelll bias

Sure I'm slightly biased but Maddux is 1st among post war pitchers in wins. And top 10 all time in strike outs.

He had a long career and played most of them on a great team
I would put him near the top, but a few above him in terms of either their peak talent, or numbers/games played.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Johnson 22 season 100 CG
Gibson 17 Season 255 CG

Gibson led the league in CGs once, Randy 4 times. Randy led league in IP twice, Gibson none. As said before times were different.

Gibson averaged about 30 more IP/year, but Johnson hung around a little at the end of his career.

 

[blitzerlover]

Re: Who was the greatest POST-WAR pitcher?

I'd take Maddux without any question.

^^^ looking at your signature, i smelll bias

Sure I'm slightly biased but Maddux is 1st among post war pitchers in wins. And top 10 all time in strike outs.

He had a long career and played most of them on a great team
I would put him near the top, but a few above him in terms of either their peak talent, or numbers/games played.

You could argue his team was great because he was on it. I think his peak years were as good as anyones. From 92-98 the guy was as good as anyone.