Why does Manny get treated like a hero despite being banned?

[aaron41984]

Who cares? Steroids are overrated! No steroid is gonna give you badass hand-eye coordination. Screw the steroid era! It's all hype! I played with lots of guys that stuck needles in their ass but didn't even get out of NCAA!

 

[predatorkj]

I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

 

[G $MONEY$]

Manny is likable player. I am a Yankees fan, but have always liked Manny. Now that Manny is on another team other than Boston, i will now buy a Manny jersey. Sometime this summer Ill be getting a Manny LA Dodgers jersey.

 

[hofautos]

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

 

[predatorkj]

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

Come on now...a personal dig at a player collector?

He has a point.

 

[hofautos]

I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

I will agree to disagree, I enjoy watching his game more than most players, no matter what their salary. I enjoy the entertainment value, as well as his clutch hitting. Very few players in the history bring a good balance of both... I also would enjoy seeing Rickey and his speeches, Ozzie and his flips, Nolan and his fighting, I enjoy all flavors of the game, and the more the flavor the better, and Manny definetely brings his share of flavor. So you can enjoy your professionalism, and I will enjoy the game in it's entirety, including brawls, being thrown out, kicking of dirt, throwing of beachballs, bugs in the mouth, killing of birds, high-fives to the fans, 7th inning stretches, the whole pizzza!

 

[predatorkj]

I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

I will agree to disagree, I enjoy watching his game more than most players, no matter what their salary. I enjoy the entertainment value, as well as his clutch hitting. Very few players in the history bring a good balance of both... I also would enjoy seeing Rickey and his speeches, Ozzie and his flips, Nolan and his fighting, I enjoy all flavors of the game, and the more the flavor the better, and Manny definetely brings his share of flavor. So you can enjoy your professionalism, and I will enjoy the game in it's entirety, including brawls, being thrown out, kicking of dirt, throwing of beachballs, bugs in the mouth, killing of birds, high-fives to the fans, 7th inning stretches, the whole pizzza!

I enjoy a lot of that too but how many times have you seen a player go out there and act a damn fool...and know they were doing it and basically doing it because they knew that nobody was going to do a thing about it?Name one of those events where it actually took away from what the team was trying to do or where it made the player look horribly foolish.Henderson deserved a nice speech.Smith didn't really do anything bad or good by the flip, and Ryan was protecting himself last time I check.Plus...if you are throwing mangers in here to with the dirt kicking and being thrown out...that is purely motivational for the players.Plus if a player gets thrown out there is a good chance its because they were arguing a call that would have helped their team.

 

[hofautos]

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

Come on now...a personal dig at a player collector?

He has a point.

What point? Most players are forgotten when they hang it up. Manny will be talked about more than most players, so in my opinion, he is quite wrong. Who talks about will clark anymore? How many times does Bill Terry's name come up? His point is mute IMHO.

 

[hofautos]

I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

[quote="hofautos":zrufl20k]Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

I will agree to disagree, I enjoy watching his game more than most players, no matter what their salary. I enjoy the entertainment value, as well as his clutch hitting. Very few players in the history bring a good balance of both... I also would enjoy seeing Rickey and his speeches, Ozzie and his flips, Nolan and his fighting, I enjoy all flavors of the game, and the more the flavor the better, and Manny definetely brings his share of flavor. So you can enjoy your professionalism, and I will enjoy the game in it's entirety, including brawls, being thrown out, kicking of dirt, throwing of beachballs, bugs in the mouth, killing of birds, high-fives to the fans, 7th inning stretches, the whole pizzza!

I enjoy a lot of that too but how many times have you seen a player go out there and act a damn fool...and know they were doing it and basically doing it because they knew that nobody was going to do a thing about it?Name one of those events where it actually took away from what the team was trying to do or where it made the player look horribly foolish.Henderson deserved a nice speech.Smith didn't really do anything bad or good by the flip, and Ryan was protecting himself last time I check.Plus...if you are throwing mangers in here to with the dirt kicking and being thrown out...that is purely motivational for the players.Plus if a player gets thrown out there is a good chance its because they were arguing a call that would have helped their team.[/quote:zrufl20k]

You obviously don't get my point. My point is plain and simple and shared by 1000s...Many people enjoy watching Manny and his antics and his hitting ability. Not everyone on the face of the earth thinks like you. Yes, there are a lot of Manny "haters'. I don't hate anyone, and I enjoy watching him play. I don't know why you find that so hard to believe. You can call him a fool, and maybe he is. I really don't know you, or know how you compare to him, nor do I care. I don't pass judgement on you, just like I don't pass judgement on him. I enjoy his game. We don't have to agree. You can't change my mind. Do you think you can say, whoa, you can't like Manny because he is an unprofessional fool, and I will agree and stop enjoying his game? Don't be so silly. Manny is fun and exciting to watch for me...nothing anyone can say will change that. To me, He is more exciting to watch than say David WRight. I am not going to say I respect one more than the other, I will just say I enjoy watching him play, and enjoy everything he brings to the game.

 

[predatorkj]

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

Come on now...a personal dig at a player collector?

He has a point.

What point? Most players are forgotten when they hang it up. Manny will be talked about more than most players, so in my opinion, he is quite wrong. Who talks about will clark anymore? How many times does Bill Terry's name come up? His point is mute IMHO.

Manny's may come up more but only for two reasons.His stats...and steroids.And it might just be one conversation instead of two.

As for Will Clark...well lets see.His playing days are long gone.His heyday was back when I was like 8.His stats, while good, were never gaudy.Why should he merit discussion?Only fans of that era or of the Giants are going to be talking about him.A lot of people know of Manny but I think that even though he is a popular figure in baseball...his name will eventually be lost in time just like the rest of the guys who were absolute beasts.

Its all about who is playing now.If I walk into anywhere and talk sports...whose name is going to come up more?Hank Aaron or Albert Pujols?A-Rod or Babe Ruth?The guys still playing will merit much more attention.They are happening now.What can you talk about with somebody(other than comparisons) about a retired player that you probably haven't said a million times already or that hasn't been hashed out to death?Hell...even here Bagwell has slowly faded as far as discussions go and Biggio is headed for the same path.While they will always be like gods to astros fans...the new guys take center stage.Pence and Berkman and Oswalt.Those are the names talked about now.And that is how it goes.5 years after Manny leaves baseball and either does or doesn't get into the HOF...his name will resurface for a few years and then he will just be another retired player fading into obscurity.Trust me...it happens.Even the best of the best have this happen.Sure you are ore likely to bring up Manny now.But not later.

 

[hofautos]

[quote="hofautos":38nsg1aa]Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

Come on now...a personal dig at a player collector?

He has a point.

What point? Most players are forgotten when they hang it up. Manny will be talked about more than most players, so in my opinion, he is quite wrong. Who talks about will clark anymore? How many times does Bill Terry's name come up? His point is mute IMHO.

Manny's may come up more but only for two reasons.His stats...and steroids.And it might just be one conversation instead of two.
[/quote:38nsg1aa]
Don't forget his character. His character will probably be brought up more than either his stats or steroids.... Good or bad, he will be talked about more than most....again, his point is mute. As for the rest of your comments, they just enforce my point that most people aren't talked about much after they hang it up, but as little as retirees are talked about, Manny's name will come up more than most retirees....again emphasizing his point was a mute one.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="jcmint":3m7n4akt]I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

[quote="hofautos":3m7n4akt]Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

I will agree to disagree, I enjoy watching his game more than most players, no matter what their salary. I enjoy the entertainment value, as well as his clutch hitting. Very few players in the history bring a good balance of both... I also would enjoy seeing Rickey and his speeches, Ozzie and his flips, Nolan and his fighting, I enjoy all flavors of the game, and the more the flavor the better, and Manny definetely brings his share of flavor. So you can enjoy your professionalism, and I will enjoy the game in it's entirety, including brawls, being thrown out, kicking of dirt, throwing of beachballs, bugs in the mouth, killing of birds, high-fives to the fans, 7th inning stretches, the whole pizzza!

I enjoy a lot of that too but how many times have you seen a player go out there and act a damn fool...and know they were doing it and basically doing it because they knew that nobody was going to do a thing about it?Name one of those events where it actually took away from what the team was trying to do or where it made the player look horribly foolish.Henderson deserved a nice speech.Smith didn't really do anything bad or good by the flip, and Ryan was protecting himself last time I check.Plus...if you are throwing mangers in here to with the dirt kicking and being thrown out...that is purely motivational for the players.Plus if a player gets thrown out there is a good chance its because they were arguing a call that would have helped their team.[/quote:3m7n4akt]

You obviously don't get my point. My point is plain and simple and shared by 1000s...Many people enjoy watching Manny and his antics and his hitting ability. Not everyone on the face of the earth thinks like you. Yes, there are a lot of Manny "haters'. I don't hate anyone, and I enjoy watching him play. I don't know why you find that so hard to believe. You can call him a fool, and maybe he is. I really don't know you, or know how you compare to him, nor do I care. I don't pass judgement on you, just like I don't pass judgement on him. I enjoy his game. We don't have to agree. I was merely answering the author of the thread's question. You can't change my mind. Do you think you can say, whoa, you can't like Manny he is an unprofessional fool, and I will agree and stop enjoying his game? Don't be so silly.[/quote:3m7n4akt]


I think you missed my point as well.You can like him.Who the hell would I be to tell you not to?My point is that I like to see crazy stuff sometimes but I also don't like to watch somebody who doesn't take the game seriously get paid more money than a lot of the guys who do care very much about it and make it well known by their hard work.

I like seeing Manny hit just as much as anyone and I admire the hell out of his talent because no matter what you say about the guy...nobody can take that away from him.I just like watching baseball.The game itself is enough entertainment for me.I don't need extra gimmicks to enjoy it.Now some may enjoy them.I don't.It doesn't make me right and you wrong or the other way around.I was merely saying I just can't imagine any job on earth where you can get paid and kind of wave your finger in front of the boss like you own him and he can't fire you.The tail does not wag the dog.One day I suspect we may see Manny find that out the hard way.You pay somebody that kind of money a year then you expect something.Once you see a dip in Manny's numbers...you will start to see him have very short stays.Not a lot of owners are going to put up with his crap.Especially if he is not producing like he is now.


Anyways...I don't think you were wrong.I just didn't like the part where he plays for fun.At this level...the only fun part of the game is for the fans.Everything on that field is business.The money involved mandates that.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="ronfromfresno":3pstgu11][quote="hofautos":3pstgu11]Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

Come on now...a personal dig at a player collector?

He has a point.

What point? Most players are forgotten when they hang it up. Manny will be talked about more than most players, so in my opinion, he is quite wrong. Who talks about will clark anymore? How many times does Bill Terry's name come up? His point is mute IMHO.

Manny's may come up more but only for two reasons.His stats...and steroids.And it might just be one conversation instead of two.
[/quote:3pstgu11]
Don't forget his character. His character will probably be brought up more than either his stats or steroids.... Good or bad, he will be talked about more than most....again, his point is mute. As for the rest of your comments, they just enforce my point that most people aren't talked about much after they hang it up, but as little as retirees are talked about, Manny's name will come up more than most retirees....again emphasizing his point was a mute one.[/quote:3pstgu11]


Eh...I disagree but hey...how the hell can we prove it?Even after he retires.I guess its all how you see it.I don't think anyone could be wrong.Now I would agree the likelihood of Manny being brought up is more likely than a lot of obscure players but I also think , like I said, there are reasons.From what I gathered from your first post about Clark...it just seemed like you had it in for Clark.I am sure he is talked about quite a bit in San Fran.

 

[hofautos]

[quote="hofautos":21ey4jmr][quote="jcmint":21ey4jmr]I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

[quote="hofautos":21ey4jmr]Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

I will agree to disagree, I enjoy watching his game more than most players, no matter what their salary. I enjoy the entertainment value, as well as his clutch hitting. Very few players in the history bring a good balance of both... I also would enjoy seeing Rickey and his speeches, Ozzie and his flips, Nolan and his fighting, I enjoy all flavors of the game, and the more the flavor the better, and Manny definetely brings his share of flavor. So you can enjoy your professionalism, and I will enjoy the game in it's entirety, including brawls, being thrown out, kicking of dirt, throwing of beachballs, bugs in the mouth, killing of birds, high-fives to the fans, 7th inning stretches, the whole pizzza!

I enjoy a lot of that too but how many times have you seen a player go out there and act a damn fool...and know they were doing it and basically doing it because they knew that nobody was going to do a thing about it?Name one of those events where it actually took away from what the team was trying to do or where it made the player look horribly foolish.Henderson deserved a nice speech.Smith didn't really do anything bad or good by the flip, and Ryan was protecting himself last time I check.Plus...if you are throwing mangers in here to with the dirt kicking and being thrown out...that is purely motivational for the players.Plus if a player gets thrown out there is a good chance its because they were arguing a call that would have helped their team.[/quote:21ey4jmr]

You obviously don't get my point. My point is plain and simple and shared by 1000s...Many people enjoy watching Manny and his antics and his hitting ability. Not everyone on the face of the earth thinks like you. Yes, there are a lot of Manny "haters'. I don't hate anyone, and I enjoy watching him play. I don't know why you find that so hard to believe. You can call him a fool, and maybe he is. I really don't know you, or know how you compare to him, nor do I care. I don't pass judgement on you, just like I don't pass judgement on him. I enjoy his game. We don't have to agree. I was merely answering the author of the thread's question. You can't change my mind. Do you think you can say, whoa, you can't like Manny he is an unprofessional fool, and I will agree and stop enjoying his game? Don't be so silly.[/quote:21ey4jmr]


I think you missed my point as well.You can like him.Who the hell would I be to tell you not to?My point is that I like to see crazy stuff sometimes but I also don't like to watch somebody who doesn't take the game seriously get paid more money than a lot of the guys who do care very much about it and make it well known by their hard work.

I like seeing Manny hit just as much as anyone and I admire the hell out of his talent because no matter what you say about the guy...nobody can take that away from him.I just like watching baseball.The game itself is enough entertainment for me.I don't need extra gimmicks to enjoy it.Now some may enjoy them.I don't.It doesn't make me right and you wrong or the other way around.I was merely saying I just can't imagine any job on earth where you can get paid and kind of wave your finger in front of the boss like you own him and he can't fire you.The tail does not wag the dog.One day I suspect we may see Manny find that out the hard way.You pay somebody that kind of money a year then you expect something.Once you see a dip in Manny's numbers...you will start to see him have very short stays.Not a lot of owners are going to put up with his crap.Especially if he is not producing like he is now.


Anyways...I don't think you were wrong.I just didn't like the part where he plays for fun.At this level...the only fun part of the game is for the fans.Everything on that field is business.The money involved mandates that.[/quote:21ey4jmr]

Neither you or I can get in Manny's head, but I still say Manny plays for fun more than most. We can agree to disagree. Of course there is always money...Money drives you and me too. Money aside, I will always contend that Manny is more into the game for fun than seriousness in comparison to other players. Accept it or not, that is my opinion, and I am perfectly content to 'agree to disagree' if you think otherwise.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="predatorkj":3fftcy67][quote="hofautos":3fftcy67][quote="jcmint":3fftcy67]I gotta disagree here. He plays the game for the love of the cold hard cash. He constantly disrespects the game that provided him with obscene wealth.

[quote="hofautos":3fftcy67]Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.

DUH...they all play for the big bucks, but he plays more for fun than most, that was my point. He doesn't take it so serious. I kind of like his game myself.

As far as all those screaming cheaters..whah, whah...

124 people were on the list...and probably another 124 not on the list...what are your imperfections....let he that is without sin throw the first stone...I am not saying I approve it, but imho, it's time to give it a rest. I don't like it, but I can get over it...it is a part of the history, and all the whining will not change it.

Bottom line for me, I enjoy what Manny brings to the game.

The part of your point that I will pick apart is that I have never in my life seen a job where you could have a carefree attitude and get any accolades because of it much less have a job after the day is done.

I understand Manny is a big draw for the crowds and whatnot but in my mind...if I am paying you millions upon millions a year to perform 100% and be totally professional and be one of the best damn ballplayers that play the game(he gets paid like he is anyways) then I expect nothing less.If you hurt the team then eventually your stardom will wear itself out and when the team gets nowhere...you know how that turns out.

While I do think Manny helps a team tremendousley...I have a hard time believing his bosses are satisfied when they seem him pulling his crap.I mean...these people are professionals and I am not sure who said it was okay for them not to act like it.

In any case...I think people like Manny because he is not seen as a loner like A-Rod or Bonds.People never liked Bonds.A-Rod has always seemed like kind of a loner or a mercenary.He never seemed to have a loyalty to anyone.People don't like that.I guess with Manny...people enjoy goofyness?

I will agree to disagree, I enjoy watching his game more than most players, no matter what their salary. I enjoy the entertainment value, as well as his clutch hitting. Very few players in the history bring a good balance of both... I also would enjoy seeing Rickey and his speeches, Ozzie and his flips, Nolan and his fighting, I enjoy all flavors of the game, and the more the flavor the better, and Manny definetely brings his share of flavor. So you can enjoy your professionalism, and I will enjoy the game in it's entirety, including brawls, being thrown out, kicking of dirt, throwing of beachballs, bugs in the mouth, killing of birds, high-fives to the fans, 7th inning stretches, the whole pizzza!

I enjoy a lot of that too but how many times have you seen a player go out there and act a damn fool...and know they were doing it and basically doing it because they knew that nobody was going to do a thing about it?Name one of those events where it actually took away from what the team was trying to do or where it made the player look horribly foolish.Henderson deserved a nice speech.Smith didn't really do anything bad or good by the flip, and Ryan was protecting himself last time I check.Plus...if you are throwing mangers in here to with the dirt kicking and being thrown out...that is purely motivational for the players.Plus if a player gets thrown out there is a good chance its because they were arguing a call that would have helped their team.[/quote:3fftcy67]

You obviously don't get my point. My point is plain and simple and shared by 1000s...Many people enjoy watching Manny and his antics and his hitting ability. Not everyone on the face of the earth thinks like you. Yes, there are a lot of Manny "haters'. I don't hate anyone, and I enjoy watching him play. I don't know why you find that so hard to believe. You can call him a fool, and maybe he is. I really don't know you, or know how you compare to him, nor do I care. I don't pass judgement on you, just like I don't pass judgement on him. I enjoy his game. We don't have to agree. I was merely answering the author of the thread's question. You can't change my mind. Do you think you can say, whoa, you can't like Manny he is an unprofessional fool, and I will agree and stop enjoying his game? Don't be so silly.[/quote:3fftcy67]


I think you missed my point as well.You can like him.Who the hell would I be to tell you not to?My point is that I like to see crazy stuff sometimes but I also don't like to watch somebody who doesn't take the game seriously get paid more money than a lot of the guys who do care very much about it and make it well known by their hard work.

I like seeing Manny hit just as much as anyone and I admire the hell out of his talent because no matter what you say about the guy...nobody can take that away from him.I just like watching baseball.The game itself is enough entertainment for me.I don't need extra gimmicks to enjoy it.Now some may enjoy them.I don't.It doesn't make me right and you wrong or the other way around.I was merely saying I just can't imagine any job on earth where you can get paid and kind of wave your finger in front of the boss like you own him and he can't fire you.The tail does not wag the dog.One day I suspect we may see Manny find that out the hard way.You pay somebody that kind of money a year then you expect something.Once you see a dip in Manny's numbers...you will start to see him have very short stays.Not a lot of owners are going to put up with his crap.Especially if he is not producing like he is now.


Anyways...I don't think you were wrong.I just didn't like the part where he plays for fun.At this level...the only fun part of the game is for the fans.Everything on that field is business.The money involved mandates that.[/quote:3fftcy67]

Neither you or I can get in Manny's head, but I still say Manny plays for fun more than most. We can agree to disagree. Of course there is always money...Money drives you and me too. Money aside, I will always contend that Manny is more into the game for fun than seriousness in comparison to other players. Accept it or not, that is my opinion, and I am perfectly content is agreeing to disagree if you think otherwise.[/quote:3fftcy67]


No, I totally agree with you.

I agree with that.I just don't like it.That's all.I agree that he plays for fun.I just think with the money involved...well...its kinda bad on his part.But as you already said...I don't think he cares.

One day me and a friend of my wife's were having that argument about not caring what people think of you and I basically told her how I feel about it.I said in essence....You may not care what others think but eventually there comes a time and point where you have to stop and consider what is thought of you and why.Sure a lot of things will be untrue and wrong.But to a degree...how much of what people thought of you was just because they were dumb and made irrational and illogical decisions about you and how much of it was because everything you did and said would lead any rational and logical person to think the things they do about you?And...if enough people are saying something and its all the same thing then it may be worth looking into.

Obviously this discussion was not about Manny or steroids or goofing off but it still is a good way for any person to look at themselves and how they are thought of.Maybe Manny would benefit from it a little.In fact...I'd bet a lot of people in professional sports would.

 

[hofautos]

No, I totally agree with you.

I agree with that.I just don't like it.That's all.I agree that he plays for fun.I just think with the money involved...well...its kinda bad on his part.But as you already said...I don't think he cares.

It's ok to think differently than others. That's what makes the world an interesting place.
You don't like the fact that he plays for fun because he makes too much money to not be more professional....I am a lot more forgiving, and have less expectations, and I actually enjoy what he offers the game.

You said you enjoy watching him bat, so do I. So we have some things in common, and other things we disagree with.

It's cool dude. Cheers!

 

[hofautos]

Obviously this discussion was not about Manny or steroids or goofing off but it still is a good way for any person to look at themselves and how they are thought of.Maybe Manny would benefit from it a little.In fact...I'd bet a lot of people in professional sports would.

I actually think a LOT of people in professional sports could learn from Manny as well..

Seriously...we are all one body...

 

[Lars]

I've seen where the media both praise and makes excuses for him while saying he doesn't hustle, loafs, Cadillacs, doesn't care, et al [the typical stereotypes fans asssociate with the me first athlete].

I don't think Manny has an understanding of the game of baseball, its unwritten rules, its etiquette - therefore he is viewed as a scumbag by Major League Baseball's conservative fan base because of his ignorance.

I don't think that is right, but who am I to defend him, when he is a flake in his own world.

On the other hand, he has put up the numbers, won a couple of championships and if he was popped for PEDS, so bet it - maybe he just doesn't care, but the good things he has actually done in his professional career has to count for something.

 

[hofautos]

I've seen where the media both praise and makes excuses for him while saying he doesn't hustle, loafs, Cadillacs, doesn't care, et al [the typical stereotypes fans asssociate with the me first athlete].

I don't think Manny has an understanding of the game of baseball, its unwritten rules, its etiquette - therefore he is viewed as a scumbag by Major League Baseball's conservative fan base because of his ignorance.

I don't think that is right, but who am I to defend him, when he is a flake in his own world.

On the other hand, he has put up the numbers, won a couple of championships and if he was popped for PEDS, so bet it - maybe he just doesn't care, but the good things he has actually done in his professional career has to count for something.

That is one of the reasons that I say I don't pass judgement on him. Some of it may have initiated with poor English, and once you are given a label, people tend to live up to the label given them. I am not in his shoes. I do not know what he has lived through. I know that everyone has their faults, and I will not pass any judgement on him. I also am probably more forgiving of Bonds than most too. I am not going to say I condone anyone's behavior, I will just say that I do not know how I would act if I was in their shoes. It is easy for one to say how they would act, but unless you live in their shoes, you really don't know. I will commend those that admit their faults, but I will be the last to find fault with others. I enjoy every aspect of the game, and what every person brings to the field.

 

[ronfromfresno]

Manny is Manny...he doesn't try to preserve any image. His care-free attitude imho is respectable. He doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't profess to be perfect....like he said, it's not as though he ***** or killed anyone. He plays the game for fun.
quote]

Tough to agree with this one, if he didn't care, why would he have used anything to begin with?

He is consumed with the money and the game no matter what he puts out there, otherwise he'd never have taken anything and he would have just retired when he got bored with the game. I seriously doubt that when he hangs it up that people will still love him, he reminds me of Sosa. All fan friendly, all big numbers and completely ignored after they are out of the game.

I doubt he will be ignored or talked about less than will clark once he hangs it up...

Thanks, you're right, Clark is a hero in San Francisco and should have garnered more than the votes he did for the HOF. Of course he did thing the right way, played the game with an intesity that the game deserves. He didn't goof off in the outfield and push people to the ground over silly things. He never spent an off-season with no one willing to sign him and he hasn't been named or suspended for using 'roids. He was and is a class act, and thanks again for your opinion.