Why is that printing plate autos...

[shayscards79]

So, have we actually seen plates that don't say "this was the actual plate used to manufacture...... card #"?

I guess I have to take a look at the couple I have again.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

So, have we actually seen plates that don't say "this was the actual plate used to manufacture...... card #"?

I guess I have to take a look at the couple I have again.

I don't think that's the case... I think they all say they were used, but they actually weren't

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

#1 they weren't actually used to print the card

#2 They are actually part of a 4 color series making each card have 4 plates

#3 They are uglier than pretty much everything, and only appeal toa niche collector

Is/was this always the case?

Semantics could be involved. For example Topps says proofs in the Topps Vault are "created and used to produce" cards. But proofs are essentially regular cards - - the difference being they're just used to look for problems with the existing printing process. So technically these proofs are 'used to create cards', but the role they play may not seem significant as they don't themselves physically alter cardboard or anything that does like a negative.

But with that said I don't know if today's plates actually touch cards that are distributed in packs. I did think multiple sets of plates are used for each printing.

 

[Ty Hope]

I sent Topps a very polite email asking if in fact plates were used in the printing process. Never heard back...

As far as GU goes, I have sold off 99% of my GU stuff. Don't trust it.

 

[shayscards79]

I watched some video of some guy that worked for upper deck in the place where they stored the game used stuff and showed how they chopped it up. Whether or not it was actually player worn... who knows, but you would think sooner or later they would get busted if they were screwing people. Someone would have to have left the company and ratted them out.

 

[ChasHawk]

I watched some video of some guy that worked for upper deck in the place where they stored the game used stuff and showed how they chopped it up. Whether or not it was actually player worn... who knows, but you would think sooner or later they would get busted if they were screwing people. Someone would have to have left the company and ratted them out.

don't try using logic.

you'll upset all the conspiracy theorists

 

[JoshHamilton]

I watched some video of some guy that worked for upper deck in the place where they stored the game used stuff and showed how they chopped it up. Whether or not it was actually player worn... who knows, but you would think sooner or later they would get busted if they were screwing people. Someone would have to have left the company and ratted them out.

don't try using logic.

you'll upset all the conspiracy theorists

It isn't a conspiracy theory. It's true (maybe not for UD, but at least one other company

 

[ChasHawk]

I watched some video of some guy that worked for upper deck in the place where they stored the game used stuff and showed how they chopped it up. Whether or not it was actually player worn... who knows, but you would think sooner or later they would get busted if they were screwing people. Someone would have to have left the company and ratted them out.

don't try using logic.

you'll upset all the conspiracy theorists

It isn't a conspiracy theory. It's true (maybe not for UD, but at least one other company

topps is the only one that puts "relic" on their cards.

for a while, DLP would put a picture of the item on the back of the card

 

[matchpenalty]

I watched some video of some guy that worked for upper deck in the place where they stored the game used stuff and showed how they chopped it up. Whether or not it was actually player worn... who knows, but you would think sooner or later they would get busted if they were screwing people. Someone would have to have left the company and ratted them out.

I would doubt joe blow UD employee is a game used expert and would know if a gamer was gamer. On GUU site they laugh at the garbage stuck on cards. I always wonder why collectors can get all bent out shape on stuff like sticker autos, card quality. but never say boo about Card Companies not ever showing where, who authenticated, complete pictures showing tagging and use and COA of jerseys before they were cut up. Heck even a lot of the stuff from halper collection sold in auctions has been proven to be bogus. Even wording on back of cards is so vague.

 

[cgilmo]

If the image on your plate isn't backwards it wasn't used to print a card.

 

[ChasHawk]

If the image on your plate isn't backwards it wasn't used to print a card.

thought this wasn't true for chrome cards?

 

[marterburn]

they can say "used to manufacture" the card all they want. "used to manufacture" does not mean "used to print". That's just something collectors assume since they're PRINTING plates. They can throw whatever meaning to "manufacture" they want.

 

[tm decomposer]

If the image on your plate isn't backwards it wasn't used to print a card.

So this one I have is legit?

 

[marterburn]

I don't want to talk too much over my head here, but:

Cards are printed digitally. The only real reason companies make plates these days is for collectables. They can feasibly say "used in manufacturing" because they can still output a proof plate that shows each color value. Theoretically they could use that plate to run the print job conventionally (Of course, if the image isn't reversed the jig is up and we all know it's just made for the sake of being a collectible). But since it's all digital and way easier to just print the color channels on the digital press if they really want to check the levels of each CMYK value (although I bet those digital printers use more than CMYK), it make no sense for them to output a plate for manufacturing. But, they do it anyway.

 

[shayscards79]

Any of you hear about this dirtbag?

Makes me wonder, maybe these card companies think they are buy legitimate stuff and it's not so much..

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/ga ... questions/

Here's an excerpt

SportsBusiness Journal contacted the three largest sports trading card companies, Topps, Upper Deck, and Panini (formerly Donruss), asking whether they bought jerseys from Ornstein and for any other information the companies knew about the case.

According to SBJ, Warren Friss, a vice president at Topps, declined comment.

Jason Howarth, vice president of marketing at trading card company Panini, formerly known as Donruss, said in an e-mail, “Neither Panini nor any of its predecessors have purchased jerseys from Michael Ornstein.”

Michael Bernstein, general counsel for Upper Deck, said the company never bought jerseys from Ornstein.

“The memorabilia and trading card industry is an industry that is built on delivering authentic autographs and memorabilia to the collecting public,” Bernstein said in an e-mail to SBJ. “Unfortunately, incidents like this serve to undermine the principals the industry is founded on.”

 

[RZimm11]

Here's info from another member here that I always reference when these Plate topics come up. Seems to make sense, but I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of the printing process. It does explain how the Chromes are one way, and non-chromes are the other.
Nobody has ever given a REAL argument to disprove this, other than the usual "everything can be faked/companies do anything for money/yada yada..." If anyone has any real explanation to disprove this possible explanation, I'd love to hear it:


"Basically all Chrome plates are reversed. Non Chrome = "normal".

Here's how I understand it.

The images that are "normal" have been that way since the early 60's (earliest Topps plate I've seen). The plates we use at work, ones used to make newspapers, Beckett magazine plates that are often offered for sale etc are all the "normal" way. The reversed ones are for Chrome.

"Regular" facing plates were used to make non Chrome cards using an offset process - which means the ink (a primary color) is applied via the plate to a rubber roller - which now would be the "reverse" of the plate - and that is applied to the cardboard - and thus will look like the plate. That's how offset printing is done.Offset printing has the advantage of consistent high quality image production.

Reversed Image/Chrome plates- That means that the plate came directly in contact with the sheet as opposed to offset where the image is transferred from the plate to a rubber pad and then to the sheet.4-colors are required for C (Cyan), M (Magenta), Y (Yellow), K (Black) printing. 1 plate is produced for each run a card makes through the press - 1x for each color.

In 1993 Flair had a 6 color printing process adding Orange and Green.

2010 Bowman Chrome Baseball were not reversed.

Link to the thread where a poster claims plates are not used in printing...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=111333"

 

[CubsFan13]

Does that mean this is fake?

 

[RZimm11]

Does that mean this is fake?

No clue why, but the info from my post above says 2010 Bowman Chrome were not reversed for some reason. Like I said, I personally have no printing experience. That is quoted from another member.

 

[tehchamp]

#1 they weren't actually used to print the card

#2 They are actually part of a 4 color series making each card have 4 plates

#3 They are uglier than pretty much everything, and only appeal toa niche collector

Is/was this always the case?

you know, Judd brought this up last year

how is this not a HUGE deal?

mine damn sure says it was used to make the card

Collectors get too complacent

I doubt more than 25% of vintage game used is real, as well.

When companies screw over and lie to collectors for long enough, we settle for less

Way less, my guess would be 3-5% of vintage is game used from player on the card and bigger name more like 1%. Reason why they are so vague and collectors never set a standard for game used cards. They don't have to prove or even show what is cut up and slapped on a card to anyone. Let's see for a vintage legit star jersey that would cost thousands, (even if you can find a 100% legit gamer on a lot of 70's and before stars) I can buy one with a Lou Lampson COA for few hundred bucks. What one is card company buying?

I would venture that most of the vintage GU stuff is actually stuff worn by the said players at events or used at certain events.
I remember seeing some Mantle jerseys that were bright white, and I was thinking no way in heck could a jersey that old be that "clean" and then I heard about the Yankee old timers games, and I'm willing to bet that Mantle wore a jersey during that, and it wasn't ever really game used.

 

[shayscards79]

[quote="cgilmo":2r6mcgfz]#1 they weren't actually used to print the card

#2 They are actually part of a 4 color series making each card have 4 plates

#3 They are uglier than pretty much everything, and only appeal toa niche collector

Is/was this always the case?

you know, Judd brought this up last year

how is this not a HUGE deal?

mine damn sure says it was used to make the card

Collectors get too complacent

I doubt more than 25% of vintage game used is real, as well.

When companies screw over and lie to collectors for long enough, we settle for less

Way less, my guess would be 3-5% of vintage is game used from player on the card and bigger name more like 1%. Reason why they are so vague and collectors never set a standard for game used cards. They don't have to prove or even show what is cut up and slapped on a card to anyone. Let's see for a vintage legit star jersey that would cost thousands, (even if you can find a 100% legit gamer on a lot of 70's and before stars) I can buy one with a Lou Lampson COA for few hundred bucks. What one is card company buying?

I would venture that most of the vintage GU stuff is actually stuff worn by the said players at events or used at certain events.
I remember seeing some Mantle jerseys that were bright white, and I was thinking no way in heck could a jersey that old be that "clean" and then I heard about the Yankee old timers games, and I'm willing to bet that Mantle wore a jersey during that, and it wasn't ever really game used.[/quote:2r6mcgfz]

I agree that most of the jerseys are "event worn" I bet that these companies buy a jersey that was worn by a player for any given reason, which is fine by me. I know with the football rookie jersey cards they buy these practice jerseys they wear during the combines and what not.