Wilin Rosario quietly putting up ROY type numbers

[soxrchamps07]

Are you serious. Just because he has more HRs and a slight edge in OPS, he has "much better numbers".

He has almost double the home runs as Harper, so I would say that is pretty damn significant. If you don't measure sucess by OPS, what are you you going to base it off of? Maybe I was a little agressive in saying "much better" but with a better OPS and almost double the home runs (in 70 less ABs no less) you can't argue that Harper's numbers are better then Rosarios.

 

[markakis8]

He has almost double the home runs as Harper, so I would say that is pretty damn significant. If you don't measure sucess by OPS, what are you you going to base it off of? Maybe I was a little agressive in saying "much better" but with a better OPS and almost double the home runs (in 70 less ABs no less) you can't argue that Harper's numbers are better then Rosarios.

Harper offers way more than Rosario - speed, spectacular defense in the outfield, clutch, and just flat out hustle (not that Rosario is a slouch - but we've seen time and time again how Harper can beat you on the basepaths). Besides, this could be one of the few times where the award comes down to the importance of the player to the team - like the MVP. Harper has won games for the Nationals all by himself and they are sitting in 1st place. Rockies are awful this year.

 

[sportscardtheory]

He has almost double the home runs as Harper, so I would say that is pretty damn significant. If you don't measure sucess by OPS, what are you you going to base it off of? Maybe I was a little agressive in saying "much better" but with a better OPS and almost double the home runs (in 70 less ABs no less) you can't argue that Harper's numbers are better then Rosarios.

Yes I can. Harper has a higher batting average, OPS, OBP and WAR than Rosario. Those are the four most significant statistics in baseball. I'm not sure where you got your numbers from.

 

[soxrchamps07]

OP - you are right, the numbers don't lie. Striking out 26% of the time and walking just 4.1% spells doom for Rosario's future consistency. Let's bump this thread at the end of the year and see where he's at.

BTW - How bout Andrelton Simmons for ROY? Much better production than Rosario at an even more premium position while playing gold glove caliber defense, maintaining a .310+ BA and striking out just 9.9% of the time. I'd take Simmons rookie production any day of the week over Rosario, who boasts only better power.

It's not like Rosario's production is a fluke, he has been one of the top catching prospects in the minors for the past couple years. However, Rosario has always struck out a lot, and he probably will never have a K% less then 15. But with those K's have come great power numbers, especially at the catcher position. The question has always been can he still put up those power numbers in the Majors while striking out 20% of the time. So far he has been able to, and still put up a respectable AVG and OPS. (His average and OPS rank him 7th and 6th among catchers I believe) Obviously time will tell if he can continue, and I'm sure you know my position on if he can do it.

On Simmons, he has been great so far, and to be honest I hadn't realized how good his stats really were. But, he still only has 100 AB, if he (just like Rosario) can sustain his numbers then I believe they both have a really good shot at ROY.

 

[soxrchamps07]

Yes I can. Harper has a higher batting average, OPS, OBP and WAR than Rosario. Those are the four most significant statistics in baseball. I'm not sure where you got your numbers from.

At the time of writing this Rosario had a higher OPS. And you completely disregarded Rosario's twice as many home runs as Harper and surperior slugging percentage(whichI admit is directly tied to home runs, but you still left both out of your argument anyway) which is practically the definition of cherry picking. I've allready acknowledged Harper's surperior OBP so I won't even get into that one.

Rosario currently has a 0.9 WAR, while Harper has a 1.3 WAR. Assuming Rosario continues on the pace he is now he would have the same or better WAR then Harper by the time he had 70 AB's.

EDIT: I thought WAR was calcultated by adding dWAR and oWAR together, apparently theres alot more to it then that. The updated WAR would give Harper1.5 and Rosario 0.7, so for the sake of the argument we'll just say Harper has a better WAR.

 

[soxrchamps07]

Harper offers way more than Rosario - speed, spectacular defense in the outfield, clutch, and just flat out hustle (not that Rosario is a slouch - but we've seen time and time again how Harper can beat you on the basepaths). Besides, this could be one of the few times where the award comes down to the importance of the player to the team - like the MVP. Harper has won games for the Nationals all by himself and they are sitting in 1st place. Rockies are awful this year.

I stated in my OP that Harper was going to win the ROY, I'm not denying that. Whether it's the hype behind him, the numbers, or just how important he is to his team the ROY will go to Bryce Harper.The point of this thread was to point out how good a season Rosario is having, and that his numbers rival and in some cases are better then Harper's. I personally believe he should win the ROY if it was given out right now, but that's just my opinion.

 

[sportscardtheory]

At the time of writing this Rosario had a higher OPS. And you completely disregarded Rosario's twice as many home runs as Harper and surperior slugging percentage(whichI admit is directly tied to home runs, but you still left both out of your argument anyway) which is practically the definition of cherry picking. I've allready acknowledged Harper's surperior OBP so I won't even get into that one.

Rosario currently has a 0.9 WAR, while Harper has a 1.3 WAR. Assuming Rosario continues on the pace he is now he would have the same or better WAR then Harper by the time he had 70 AB's.

EDIT: I thought WAR was calcultated by adding dWAR and oWAR together, apparently theres alot more to it then that. The updated WAR would give Harper1.5 and Rosario 0.7, so for the sake of the argument we'll just say Harper has a better WAR.

Yes, you are right. I'M the one "cherry picking" stats. lol The even funnier part is that you stated how important OPS is when Rosario's was higher than Harper's, but now that's it's reversed, you have conveniently forgotten about it.

 

[George_Calfas]

Just for reference at the catcher position......
Mike Piazza .315 and 35 HR
Soto .285 and 23 HR
Posey .305 and 18 HR

 

[Wes]

Don't see how Rosario's numbers are even close to as good as Harper's. A .280 OBP is terrible and while he plays a more valuable defensive position, he's played it poorly. No argument for me.

 

[Superfractor]

Yeah, idefinitely hasn't looked good elsewhere. Nevertheless, it is all very encouraging; which is what matters - the team.

 

[soxrchamps07]

Yes, you are right. I'M the one "cherry picking" stats. lol The even funnier part is that you stated how important OPS is when Rosario's was higher than Harper's, but now that's it's reversed, you have conveniently forgotten about it.

"Conveniently forgot?" When I wrote this the other night he had a better OPS the first I heard that Haper had passed Rosario was you stating he had a better one. You accused me of making my stats up, so all I said on the matter was that when I wrote this he had a better OPS, it's as simple as that.

And yes, you are cherrypicking stats. I acknowledged the areas that Harper had Rosario beat in, but you practically ignored Rosario's better power numbers and OPS. But, now that Harper's OPS has risen above Rosario's that part of my argument obviously doesn't hold weight, but the point of the thread still stands, Rosario should be right there with Harper for ROY, if not ahead.

And not that it matters as Rosario still has the most E's and PBs of any catcher, Baseball reference still has him at 0.4 for dWAR, which I assume is mostly attributed to his 44% CS rate, but that should still be taken into account no less.

 

[noaskiecards]

.280 OBP wins ROY?

 

[soxrchamps07]

.280 OBP wins ROY?

I'm done trying to defend my position. I've allready spoken about his OBP and why it's so low, I'm not going to mention it again. To all the naysayers, answer me this, if Rosario were to continue on his pace and ended up with 25/30 Home runs and around a .250/.275 AVG with an .800+ OPS at the catchers position do you still not give the ROY to him?

 

[sportscardtheory]

"Conveniently forgot?" When I wrote this the other night he had a better OPS the first I heard that Haper had passed Rosario was you stating he had a better one. You accused me of making my stats up, so all I said on the matter was that when I wrote this he had a better OPS, it's as simple as that.

And yes, you are cherrypicking stats. I acknowledged the areas that Harper had Rosario beat in, but you practically ignored Rosario's better power numbers and OPS. But, now that Harper's OPS has risen above Rosario's that part of my argument obviously doesn't hold weight, but the point of the thread still stands, Rosario should be right there with Harper for ROY, if not ahead.

And not that it matters as Rosario still has the most E's and PBs of any catcher, Baseball reference still has him at 0.4 for dWAR, which I assume is mostly attributed to his 44% CS rate, but that should still be taken into account no less.

What the hell are you talking about? You aren't even making sense anymore. You are making crap up and acting like homeruns and slugging percentage are all that matter. I think Rosario is having a decent season, but to say he's having a better season than Bryce Harper because of a few stats he leads him in is just plain stupid. Does he have better power numbers, yeah. Does that automatically mean he's having a better season, no.

 

[Wes]

I'm done trying to defend my position. I've allready spoken about his OBP and why it's so low, I'm not going to mention it again. To all the naysayers, answer me this, if Rosario were to continue on his pace and ended up with 25/30 Home runs and around a .250/.275 AVG with an .800+ OPS at the catchers position do you still not give the ROY to him?

Your hypothetical is flawed because it ignores the production of other rookies. But let's assume all rookies keep their paces up. If he continues on his pace of putting up a .280 OBP I do not give the ROY to him. Only 8 MLB regulars have OBP's worse than that.

 

[markakis8]

Alright George, today it was announced that Bryce Harper was the FIFTH rookie All-Star which set a record. I thought "hey Lynn's an AS, so this will settle the debate if he's one of the five"

Here's who I got on the AS team that is a rookie, which one is NOT:

Bryce Harper
Mike Trout
Ryan Cook
Yu Darvish
Lance Lynn
Wade Miley

I have to think that Lynn is NOT a rookie.

 

[George_Calfas]

Alright George, today it was announced that Bryce Harper was the FIFTH rookie All-Star which set a record. I thought "hey Lynn's an AS, so this will settle the debate if he's one of the five"

Here's who I got on the AS team that is a rookie, which one is NOT:

Bryce Harper
Mike Trout
Ryan Cook
Yu Darvish
Lance Lynn
Wade Miley

I have to think that Lynn is NOT a rookie.

You are right and I am wrong. I bow to your superior knowledge.

 

[markakis8]

You are right and I am wrong. I bow to your superior knowledge.

Oh c'mon, you know I think you are the superior one! I seriously was interested in whether Lynn was a rookie or not. I did not know for sure until today.

SMOOCHES

 

[hive17]

Aoki has a 14-game hitting streak. If Harper's HRs weren't a headline very time they happen, Aoki would get some mention. He won't win, but he's earned the right to be in the discussion.