Wins against replacement (WAR) is crap isn't it really?

[craftysouthpaw]

this player stats for 162 games for 15 year
G... PA.. AB. R... H.. 2B.3B.HR.RBI.SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
162 686 629 102 186 37 2 42 135 2 2 44 122 .295 .343 .561 .904 132

his war ranks 239th all time
you are telling me a player that can hit .295 with 42 home runs 135 RBI's
.561 SLG every year at 162 game avg every year for 15 years and ranks 239th all time?
who the hell would not want this player on a team?
the war stat is CRAP!

Defense matters

fielding % .983

Fielding percentage means very little especially without much more context.

And I guess if Kevin Youkilis said it, it must be true.

 

[dp33]

this player stats for 162 games for 15 year
G... PA.. AB. R... H.. 2B.3B.HR.RBI.SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
162 686 629 102 186 37 2 42 135 2 2 44 122 .295 .343 .561 .904 132

his war ranks 239th all time
you are telling me a player that can hit .295 with 42 home runs 135 RBI's
.561 SLG every year at 162 game avg every year for 15 years and ranks 239th all time?
who the hell would not want this player on a team?
the war stat is CRAP!

who is is that you think is ranked 239th?

according to baseball-reference, Charlie Keller & Thurman Munson are tied for 239th.

sorry that was his Offensive WAR† s c a p y
1993 AL 6.9 (4th)
1998 AL 5.4 (7th)
Career 41.7 (239th)
his overall WAR ranks him 386!!!!!!!!!!! so if you are a GM and use this stat, you need to take B.J. Surhoff with a WAR ranking of 367TH over Juan Gonzalez with a ranking of 386th that stat is a JOKE!!!!!

B.J. Surhoff was a catcher for part of his career, and he also played 600+ more games than Juan Gonzalez did. It's really not surprising at all that Surhoff would rank ahead of someone who had a WAR of 2.0 or less in 10 of his 17 seasons.

 

[nosterbor]

this player stats for 162 games for 15 year
G... PA.. AB. R... H.. 2B.3B.HR.RBI.SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
162 686 629 102 186 37 2 42 135 2 2 44 122 .295 .343 .561 .904 132

his war ranks 239th all time
you are telling me a player that can hit .295 with 42 home runs 135 RBI's
.561 SLG every year at 162 game avg every year for 15 years and ranks 239th all time?
who the hell would not want this player on a team?
the war stat is CRAP!

who is is that you think is ranked 239th?

according to baseball-reference, Charlie Keller & Thurman Munson are tied for 239th.

sorry that was his Offensive WAR† s c a p y
1993 AL 6.9 (4th)
1998 AL 5.4 (7th)
Career 41.7 (239th)
his overall WAR ranks him 386!!!!!!!!!!! so if you are a GM and use this stat, you need to take B.J. Surhoff with a WAR ranking of 367TH over Juan Gonzalez with a ranking of 386th that stat is a JOKE!!!!!

B.J. Surhoff was a catcher for part of his career, and he also played 600+ more games than Juan Gonzalez did. It's really not surprising at all that Surhoff would rank ahead of someone who had a WAR of 2.0 or less in 10 of his 17 seasons.

so would you rather have B J at catcher and Joe Schmuck in the outfield.or Joe Schumk at catcher and Juan Gonzalez in the outfield? would the Rangers have won in 96-98-99 with B J catching and I-Rod in the outfield? NO! how about 01 Indians with B J at Catcher and Einar Diaz in the outfield? would they have won? NO!

 

[RL24]

so would you rather have B J at catcher and Joe Schmuck in the outfield.or Joe Schumk at catcher and Juan Gonzalez in the outfield? would the Rangers have won in 96-98-99 with B J catching and I-Rod in the outfield? NO! how about 01 Indians with B J at Catcher and Einar Diaz in the outfield? would they have won? NO!

wait wait wait... you're saying that the sole reason that Rangers and Indians won was because they had Juan Gonzalez!?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dp33]

this player stats for 162 games for 15 year
G... PA.. AB. R... H.. 2B.3B.HR.RBI.SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
162 686 629 102 186 37 2 42 135 2 2 44 122 .295 .343 .561 .904 132

his war ranks 239th all time
you are telling me a player that can hit .295 with 42 home runs 135 RBI's
.561 SLG every year at 162 game avg every year for 15 years and ranks 239th all time?
who the hell would not want this player on a team?
the war stat is CRAP!

who is is that you think is ranked 239th?

according to baseball-reference, Charlie Keller & Thurman Munson are tied for 239th.

sorry that was his Offensive WAR† s c a p y
1993 AL 6.9 (4th)
1998 AL 5.4 (7th)
Career 41.7 (239th)
his overall WAR ranks him 386!!!!!!!!!!! so if you are a GM and use this stat, you need to take B.J. Surhoff with a WAR ranking of 367TH over Juan Gonzalez with a ranking of 386th that stat is a JOKE!!!!!

B.J. Surhoff was a catcher for part of his career, and he also played 600+ more games than Juan Gonzalez did. It's really not surprising at all that Surhoff would rank ahead of someone who had a WAR of 2.0 or less in 10 of his 17 seasons.

so would you rather have B J at catcher and Joe Schmuck in the outfield.or Joe Schumk at catcher and Juan Gonzalez in the outfield? would the Rangers have won in 96-98-99 with B J catching and I-Rod in the outfield? NO! how about 01 Indians with B J at Catcher and Einar Diaz in the outfield? would they have won? NO!

Over the course of their entire careers, having B.J. Surhoff would have netted you about one more win than having Juan Gonzalez, so it's really a pointless question (and obviously one of the things you're not understanding about WAR). But the correct answer - if you're solely concerned about winning games - is B.J. Surhoff. This assumes, of course, that Joe Schmuck the OF and Joe Schumk the C have the same WAR value.

 

[nosterbor]

so would you rather have B J at catcher and Joe Schmuck in the outfield.or Joe Schumk at catcher and Juan Gonzalez in the outfield? would the Rangers have won in 96-98-99 with B J catching and I-Rod in the outfield? NO! how about 01 Indians with B J at Catcher and Einar Diaz in the outfield? would they have won? NO!

wait wait wait... you're saying that the sole reason that Rangers and Indians won was because they had Juan Gonzalez!?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and they Would have one 1 game in the 96 post season against the Yankees without him.

 

[1st4040]

*Wins Above Replacement.

Sabermetrics are a huge part in front offices evaluating players today. As a Sport Management major, we dealt with sabermetric calculations regularly as a part of our Statistics course. WAR is usually used when determining the value of players when deciding whether or not to pull the trigger on a guy in free agency or via trade. The statistic does just what it says- places a value of a particular player (in wins) over his replacement (a bench player or prospect). I know guys like Theo place a heavy emphasis on the various sabermetric calculations available to them when assessing the value (both monetary and performance-wise) of a player.

Edit: I'm glad you brought this up. A quick search shows that Boston actually has 2 "sabermetricians" on staff- was not even aware of that.

if this is true then why are we still stuck with JD Drew? sabermetrics doesn't have a man crush variable does it?

 

[nosterbor]

[quote="nosterbor":2ewm7gfm]this player stats for 162 games for 15 year
G... PA.. AB. R... H.. 2B.3B.HR.RBI.SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
162 686 629 102 186 37 2 42 135 2 2 44 122 .295 .343 .561 .904 132

his war ranks 239th all time
you are telling me a player that can hit .295 with 42 home runs 135 RBI's
.561 SLG every year at 162 game avg every year for 15 years and ranks 239th all time?
who the hell would not want this player on a team?
the war stat is CRAP!

who is is that you think is ranked 239th?

according to baseball-reference, Charlie Keller & Thurman Munson are tied for 239th.

sorry that was his Offensive WAR† s c a p y
1993 AL 6.9 (4th)
1998 AL 5.4 (7th)
Career 41.7 (239th)
his overall WAR ranks him 386!!!!!!!!!!! so if you are a GM and use this stat, you need to take B.J. Surhoff with a WAR ranking of 367TH over Juan Gonzalez with a ranking of 386th that stat is a JOKE!!!!!

B.J. Surhoff was a catcher for part of his career, and he also played 600+ more games than Juan Gonzalez did. It's really not surprising at all that Surhoff would rank ahead of someone who had a WAR of 2.0 or less in 10 of his 17 seasons.

so would you rather have B J at catcher and Joe Schmuck in the outfield.or Joe Schumk at catcher and Juan Gonzalez in the outfield? would the Rangers have won in 96-98-99 with B J catching and I-Rod in the outfield? NO! how about 01 Indians with B J at Catcher and Einar Diaz in the outfield? would they have won? NO!

Over the course of their entire careers, having B.J. Surhoff would have netted you about one more win than having Juan Gonzalez, so it's really a pointless question (and obviously one of the things you're not understanding about WAR). But the correct answer - if you're solely concerned about winning games - is B.J. Surhoff. This assumes, of course, that Joe Schmuck the OF and Joe Schumk the C have the same WAR value.[/quote:2ewm7gfm] so a Gm is looking at this and both players and can be had for the same money, and he is going to say " let take B.J." yes. i do understand the war stat! its Absolutely Useless Trivia!
BS!

 

[nosterbor]

*Wins Above Replacement.

Sabermetrics are a huge part in front offices evaluating players today. As a Sport Management major, we dealt with sabermetric calculations regularly as a part of our Statistics course. WAR is usually used when determining the value of players when deciding whether or not to pull the trigger on a guy in free agency or via trade. The statistic does just what it says- places a value of a particular player (in wins) over his replacement (a bench player or prospect). I know guys like Theo place a heavy emphasis on the various sabermetric calculations available to them when assessing the value (both monetary and performance-wise) of a player.

Edit: I'm glad you brought this up. A quick search shows that Boston actually has 2 "sabermetricians" on staff- was not even aware of that.

if this is true then why are we still stuck with JD Drew? sabermetrics doesn't have a man crushe variable does it?

because his lifetime WAR is 196th all time! almost twice the player Juan Gonzalez was!!!!!!!!!!! so...sorry you are stuck with him.