Worst everyday starting player in MLB

[colts1888]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

 

[matty07]

G? AB? R? H? TB? 2B? 3B? HR? RBI? BB? IBB? SO? SB? CS? AVG? OBP? SLG? OPS? GO/AO
159 546 81 146 289 29 0 38 105 116 16 177 0 1 .267 .398 .529 .928 0.77

These are Dunns 2009 stats how are these EVEN FACKING CLOSE to him being the worst

Give it up..It's obviously WAY over your head.

How is it way over my head...Just because he sucks defensively...By the way he's playing 1st alot more often and he's pretty decent there. His offense is still atop the league

 

[Jays_Cards]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

BASEBALL IS NOT AN OFFENSE ONLY GAME....DEFENSIVE VALUE, BASERUNNING, AND CLUTCH HITTING ABILITY AND MANY OTHER FACTORS MUST BE FACTORED IN TO DETERMINE A PLAYER'S OVERALL VALUE/ABILITY. I KNOW THE LARGE MAJORITY OF YOU HAVE GROWN UP DURING THE ROID ERA IN WHICH HRS AND RBIS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, BUT DONT BE DENSE.

 

[matty07]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

Nick Johnson is a good player...Has a decent bat works the count, walks alot and has a good OBP..Far from the worst...Hey he's on the Yankees so hes gotta be one of the best platyers in the league how else would he be in this team

 

[matty07]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

BASEBALL IS NOT AN OFFENSE ONLY GAME....DEFENSIVE VALUE, BASERUNNING, AND CLUTCH HITTING ABILITY AND MANY OTHER FACTORS MUST BE FACTORED IN TO DETERMINE A PLAYER'S OVERALL VALUE/ABILITY. I KNOW THE LARGE MAJORITY OF YOU HAVE GROWN UP DURING THE ROID ERA IN WHICH HRS AND RBIS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, BUT DONT BE DENSE.

I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT..BUT YOU FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU'RE COMPLETELY IGNORING HIS OTHER STATS WHERE HE SUCCEEDS ALOT. THEREFOR NOT MAKING HIM THE WORST!!!!!!!!

 

[ballerskrip]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

BASEBALL IS NOT AN OFFENSE ONLY GAME....DEFENSIVE VALUE, BASERUNNING, AND CLUTCH HITTING ABILITY AND MANY OTHER FACTORS MUST BE FACTORED IN TO DETERMINE A PLAYER'S OVERALL VALUE/ABILITY. I KNOW THE LARGE MAJORITY OF YOU HAVE GROWN UP DURING THE ROID ERA IN WHICH HRS AND RBIS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, BUT DONT BE DENSE.

While I agree with this, ask any scout what the #1 tool is they look for in any position player and the answer is THE BAT. That is a fact, no bones about it. Many players get drafted every year that can flat out hit and not much else. Many less that can only run and play defense.

Look at Manny Ramirez for example, doesn't run well, terrible defensively, terrible baserunner, But he makes $20 million because of the bat.

Of course I would love to have every player on my team be able to hit, run, and play defense, but that is unrealistic.

skrip

 

[colts1888]

the guy isnt a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

 

[Jays_Cards]

the guy is a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

Trying to explain anything to Matty is pointless. If you go back in the thread, I explicitly stated that Dunn would be NOWHERE near this discussion if he was in the AL.

 

[matty07]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

BASEBALL IS NOT AN OFFENSE ONLY GAME....DEFENSIVE VALUE, BASERUNNING, AND CLUTCH HITTING ABILITY AND MANY OTHER FACTORS MUST BE FACTORED IN TO DETERMINE A PLAYER'S OVERALL VALUE/ABILITY. I KNOW THE LARGE MAJORITY OF YOU HAVE GROWN UP DURING THE ROID ERA IN WHICH HRS AND RBIS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, BUT DONT BE DENSE.

While I agree with this, ask any scout what the #1 tool is they look for in any position player and the answer is THE BAT. That is a fact, no bones about it. Many players get drafted every year that can flat out hit and not much else. Many less that can only run and play defense.

Look at Manny Ramirez for example, doesn't run well, terrible defensively, terrible baserunner, But he makes $20 million because of the bat.

Of course I would love to have every player on my team be able to hit, run, and play defense, but that is unrealistic.

skrip

YOU HAVE BEEN THANKED!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jesusmontero]

All this thread shows is how many people on this bored don't know much about actual baseball. Maybe we should split the baseball forum up into prospectors and mlb'ers. The whole Bengie Molina thing is so stupid. Part of being a catcher isn't just hitting, its calling the game. some of you may not realize this but gm's, managers, players due. There was a reason Brain Cashmen said if there was one player he could take away from the Redsox it would be Jason Varitek (this was a few years ago). Tim Linny was quoted after his 1st start praising Bengie for the job he did. Lincecum said Bengie was able to control the game and keept him calm. This may not seem like a big deal to you but it was to Lincecum.

 

[Jays_Cards]

NICK JOHNSON how the heck is a Dh let alone a DH for the NY yankees

Because he always puts up a strong OBP. Why shouldn't he be?

lets be serious Nick Johnson is a useless bum its just a matter of time till he gets hurt he might get OB alot but he doesnt hit for crap

as far as Adam Dunn is concerned he is far from the worst just because he k's alot doesnt make him the worst hell mark reynolds and Howard strike out more lets add them to the list as well. Ill have what ever your having

BASEBALL IS NOT AN OFFENSE ONLY GAME....DEFENSIVE VALUE, BASERUNNING, AND CLUTCH HITTING ABILITY AND MANY OTHER FACTORS MUST BE FACTORED IN TO DETERMINE A PLAYER'S OVERALL VALUE/ABILITY. I KNOW THE LARGE MAJORITY OF YOU HAVE GROWN UP DURING THE ROID ERA IN WHICH HRS AND RBIS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, BUT DONT BE DENSE.

While I agree with this, ask any scout what the #1 tool is they look for in any position player and the answer is THE BAT. That is a fact, no bones about it. Many players get drafted every year that can flat out hit and not much else. Many less that can only run and play defense.

Look at Manny Ramirez for example, doesn't run well, terrible defensively, terrible baserunner, But he makes $20 million because of the bat.

Of course I would love to have every player on my team be able to hit, run, and play defense, but that is unrealistic.

skrip

You may have provided the first valid point in this thread. The reason for this is generally because the other aspects of the game (besides speed) are considered easier to develop than hitting. The ability to hit a 90+ MPH fastball is not really something that can be developed. You can either do it or not. Therefore, when drafting/scouting the ability to hit is generally considered a more important attribute.

 

[matty07]

the guy is a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

Trying to explain anything to Matty is pointless. If you go back in the thread, I explicitly stated that Dunn would be NOWHERE near this discussion if he was in the AL.

How is he one of the best in the AL yet according to you one of the worst in the NL...right there clearly shows he's not one of the worst players in the league CAUSE HE CAN HIT THE BALL!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jays_Cards]

the guy is a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

Trying to explain anything to Matty is pointless. If you go back in the thread, I explicitly stated that Dunn would be NOWHERE near this discussion if he was in the AL.

How is he one of the best in the AL yet according to you one of the worst in the NL...right there clearly shows he's not one of the worst players in the league CAUSE HE CAN HIT THE BALL!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think I could make this point better to my dog. Do you not understand that a player's value is derived by the value he adds offensively plus the value he adds in each other area? Adam Dunn is the WORST defensive player in the majors by a WIDE margin. Last year he cost the Nationals 48 runs averaged over 135 games from the average defensive player. If you add his runs created offensively and subtract his runs cost defensively, from being a TERRIBLE baserunner and in every area of baseball outside of hitting what do you get? Obviously simple math is beyond you.

*EDIT: I will spell it out for you...If he was in the AL as a DH, he would not cost his team a ridiculous amount of runs and his overall value would increase by that single amount over the course of a year.

 

[matty07]

All this thread shows is how many people on this bored don't know much about actual baseball. Maybe we should split the baseball forum up into prospectors and mlb'ers. The whole Bengie Molina thing is so stupid. Part of being a catcher isn't just hitting, its calling the game. some of you may not realize this but gm's, managers, players due. There was a reason Brain Cashmen said if there was one player he could take away from the Redsox it would be Jason Varitek (this was a few years ago). Tim Linny was quoted after his 1st start praising Bengie for the job he did. Lincecum said Bengie was able to control the game and keept him calm. This may not seem like a big deal to you but it was to Lincecum.

Ya and I agree I think Molina is a fantastic player with the bat and defensivly..his knack is useless runner but he deffinetly succeeds in other categories very well

 

[matty07]

[quote="Jays_Cards":8nua81ly]

the guy is a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

Trying to explain anything to Matty is pointless. If you go back in the thread, I explicitly stated that Dunn would be NOWHERE near this discussion if he was in the AL.

How is he one of the best in the AL yet according to you one of the worst in the NL...right there clearly shows he's not one of the worst players in the league CAUSE HE CAN HIT THE BALL!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think I could make this point better to my dog. Do you not understand that a player's value is derived by the value he adds offensively plus the value he adds in each other area? Adam Dunn is the WORST defensive player in the majors by a WIDE margin. Last year he cost the Nationals 48 runs averaged over 135 games from the average defensive player. If you add his runs created offensively and subtract his runs cost defensively, from being a TERRIBLE baserunner and in every area of baseball outside of hitting what do you get? Obviously simple math is beyond you.

*EDIT: I will spell it out for you...If he was in the AL as a DH, he would not cost his team a ridiculous amount of runs and his overall value would increase by that single amount over the course of a year.[/quote:8nua81ly]


Since his defense sucks and his hitting is awesome..it all cancelles out, therefor hes the worst...That is essentially what you're saying

 

[colts1888]

[quote="Jays_Cards":3nmmxc0z]

the guy is a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

Trying to explain anything to Matty is pointless. If you go back in the thread, I explicitly stated that Dunn would be NOWHERE near this discussion if he was in the AL.

How is he one of the best in the AL yet according to you one of the worst in the NL...right there clearly shows he's not one of the worst players in the league CAUSE HE CAN HIT THE BALL!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think I could make this point better to my dog. Do you not understand that a player's value is derived by the value he adds offensively plus the value he adds in each other area? Adam Dunn is the WORST defensive player in the majors by a WIDE margin. Last year he cost the Nationals 48 runs averaged over 135 games from the average defensive player. If you add his runs created offensively and subtract his runs cost defensively, from being a TERRIBLE baserunner and in every area of baseball outside of hitting what do you get? Obviously simple math is beyond you.

*EDIT: I will spell it out for you...If he was in the AL as a DH, he would not cost his team a ridiculous amount of runs and his overall value would increase by that single amount over the course of a year.[/quote:3nmmxc0z]


you can add posada to that category but he makes it up from his bat thats why in baseball you have a late inning replacement come in to keep it close or keep the lead thats somehting the nationals dont need to worry sabout because asdie from dunn and zimmerman they got nada

 

[Jays_Cards]

[quote="Jays_Cards":2ng8zq1d]

the guy is a liability at first like other people(ortiz giambi etc) the holds his own. He has good OBP, he kills the ball. Put it this way if he was in the AL you wouldnt even consider Dunn, not that i know how

I also think i hate johnson because i wish Matsui was still the Dh you can ask your self the same thing about gardner

Trying to explain anything to Matty is pointless. If you go back in the thread, I explicitly stated that Dunn would be NOWHERE near this discussion if he was in the AL.

How is he one of the best in the AL yet according to you one of the worst in the NL...right there clearly shows he's not one of the worst players in the league CAUSE HE CAN HIT THE BALL!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think I could make this point better to my dog. Do you not understand that a player's value is derived by the value he adds offensively plus the value he adds in each other area? Adam Dunn is the WORST defensive player in the majors by a WIDE margin. Last year he cost the Nationals 48 runs averaged over 135 games from the average defensive player. If you add his runs created offensively and subtract his runs cost defensively, from being a TERRIBLE baserunner and in every area of baseball outside of hitting what do you get? Obviously simple math is beyond you.

*EDIT: I will spell it out for you...If he was in the AL as a DH, he would not cost his team a ridiculous amount of runs and his overall value would increase by that single amount over the course of a year.

Since his defense sucks and his hitting is awesome..it all cancelles out, therefor hes the worst...That is essentially what you're saying[/quote:2ng8zq1d]

No, it doesnt necessarily cancel out. He is worth a certain amount because of his offense and worth a certain negative amount because his defense, his Ks, his clutch hitting, his base running and every other category. I am to lazy to look up every number, but if you had up his value in every aspect of baseball, it comes out to a negative number. There are quite a few players who have negative values (most of which I have mentioned in this thread already). Its not based off of how you feel about a certain player, it is statistically proven.

 

[Jays_Cards]

For all the smart people out there, here is Dunn's breakdown from last year only factoring in offense and defense taken directly from baseball-reference.com:

Batting - BtRuns (Adjusted Batting Runs) - + 38.5
Fielding - Rtot/year (Total fielding runs above average) - 47.1

So just taking batting and fielding into consideration, Dunn was worth -8.6 runs compared to the average player over the course of last year to the Nationals.

*EDIT:

For comparisons sake, here is Albert Pujols' breakdown:

Batting : 79
Fielding: 10.2

Worth 89.2 runs over the average player.

 

[ChasHawk]

For all the smart people out there, here is Dunn's breakdown from last year only factoring in offense and defense taken directly from baseball-reference.com:

Batting - BtRuns (Adjusted Batting Runs) - + 38.5
Fielding - Rtot/year (Total fielding runs above average) - 47.1

So just taking batting and fielding into consideration, Dunn was worth -8.6 runs compared to the average player over the course of last year to the Nationals.

*EDIT:

For comparisons sake, here is Albert Pujols' breakdown:

Batting : 79
Fielding: 10.2

Worth 89.2 runs over the average player.

As has been stated many times in this thread, Dunn is a butcher in the outfield.

However, that -47.1 number you pulled were from his games in LF last year. That same stat in his 67 games at 1st base is only -14.4,
meaning at 1B he is worth 24.1 runs MORE than the average player.

This has turned into one of the dumbest threads in the history of this board.

 

[Jays_Cards]

For all the smart people out there, here is Dunn's breakdown from last year only factoring in offense and defense taken directly from baseball-reference.com:

Batting - BtRuns (Adjusted Batting Runs) - + 38.5
Fielding - Rtot/year (Total fielding runs above average) - 47.1

So just taking batting and fielding into consideration, Dunn was worth -8.6 runs compared to the average player over the course of last year to the Nationals.

*EDIT:

For comparisons sake, here is Albert Pujols' breakdown:

Batting : 79
Fielding: 10.2

Worth 89.2 runs over the average player.

As has been stated many times in this thread, Dunn is a butcher in the outfield.

However, that -47.1 number you pulled were from his games in LF last year. That same stat in his 67 games at 1st base is only -14.4,
meaning at 1B he is worth 24.1 runs MORE than the average player.

This has turned into one of the dumbest threads in the history of this board.

Ehh..You may want to go recheck the numbers..The -47.1 number was an overall total. He was at -33.5 last year in LF and -85.3 in RF. Splitting numbers like you did doesnt work..You cant count the ABs in the OF in his offensive numbers and not in his defensive numbers.