Your Beef with the Hobby or Why You Don't Care.

[Superfractor]

False advertising/Lies/Greed - Bowman and the "1st Bowman Card" label = Bullstink! 2010 Bowman Aroldis Chapman cards have this label. Did they forget about the 2009 Chapman Cards. There are tons of examples of this.

This for me - just horrible. On that same level, Au., and base versions of the same prospect, on the same product. It's even worse when both are called their "1st [...]".

As well as third-year prospect Bowman (blue) cards. See: Wilin Rosario in BC '10.

 

[Anthony K.]

My biggest beef with the hobby:

People who complain about the amount of money they get back from a box break.

This is a HOBBY, not a business. It's a simple enjoyment. Why continue to complain because you don't get 100% back on your boxes? When the hobby originally started, people weren't flipping cards and boxes for mad cash, they were enjoying the collectibility of it all.

Nowadays more people complain about what they did or didn't get in a box then are happy with what they DID get. I remember when I was younger (hell, it still happens now) that if I got a card of a player I liked, my favorite team or even a simple insert (UD collector's Choice was BOSS back in the day for this) I would go NUTS. In reality, I still do. I opened a box of 2010 Topps and LOVED every minute of it.

If more people went back to the simple joy of collecting and being happy with pulling a few inserts, their one or two game used or autos a box, it would push the hobby by LEAPS AND BOUNDS back into just that, a hobby.

Now, I have nothing against prospectors, nor people who like to buy boxes/cases to flip, but in the end, this started as a hobby and needs to go back to its collectible roots.

 

[brouthercard]

2010 Topps Triple Threads base card parallel to 525 - this just pisses me off!!!

I'm done with this hobby!!! :evil: :evil:

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Beefs:

Wax over $3 a pack
No need for them. Plain and simple. Hell, even BDP is at or over the $3 mark, and they cut the number of cards per pack again this year.

Sticker Autos.
No need for them. Cant get the player to sign the cards? move on to someone else who can.

Game Used Cards.
No need for them. Show a GU card to someone that isnt a card geek, and watch them be puzzled and
ask, where is the rest of the jersey?

eBay sellers that no longer have the balls to list items as an auction

 

[bradical]

That problem comes from card companies using 3rd party vendors/printing presses. Some stuff may get backdoored through them or employees. Prime example, a lot of Donruss stuff from 2001-2005 is currently being backdoored on eBay.

Here is one of those examples:

They are shipped out of Texas.

It should be their business to protect their product. company, name, and integrity. If a vendor of ours was out reproducing materials without our consent, I can assure you our legal department would have them in a court suing them for a breaching a contract.

They don't care. Once the product is out their door, they just want to see the cash stack up.

 

[nborton]

The fact that the manufactures have done little to nothing to help ensure the integrity of their products and our hobby. Items are being counterfeited, back-doored, cut up, and faked with each new product release. I have not seen a single innovative idea from a company to help alleviate any of these issues, if anything, they are making it easier.

That's my beef as well. There are tons of ways to make it more difficult to fake patches. Problem is there isn't a whole lot of motivation on the companies part to fix it if they are selling out of product.

 

[DaveH]

My only beef is that I know companies are capable of producing nice stuff, but yet they always seem to fall short.
In almost all cases, they can do better, they know how to do better, but don't.

this is it. there needs to be some sort of creative overtaking or something. the topps pro debut "cuts" have convinced me that there is truly a rock bottom, as far as creative card design goes. because thats it. thats the bottom.

 

[bdj610]

Probably because I could be partially to blame for adding the kerosene to the fire Kevin was lighting...

Why I don't Care...

I collect Topps Baseball Cards. I have every complete base and traded set since 1976. I'm not one who left the Hobby in my childhood and re-discovered it as an adult. I never left. I love the designs, the fact that Topps tries to make them appear different and timeless every year. There have been some great designs over the 60 years, and of course some clunkers. But somehow, Topps has been able to make them all timeless. And I will probably continue to collect until I can't physically do it anymore.

All the innovations, all the "gimmicks", all the chase cards have a purpose...to make us want more. Is that a problem? It can be, but I choose not to look at them that way. If it weren't for the chase, what's the point in collecting? The excitement that should have been felt in finding that unique short print, variation, or even a card with a president mysteriously appearing in the stands vanished because somebody complained about it.

I love the game of baseball. I love the fact that its history has touched parts of three centuries. I love its history, and love reading as much about it as I can. Baseball cards have been great tools to pass along history and to market the game. What better way to promote the game to youngsters than to give them pieces of cardboard showing athletes playing a game that they do.

I love researching the history of baseball cards. The designs from the tobacco companies in the late 1800's-early 1900's. The sets from the 30's-50's before Topps. I may never own a card from that era, but thanks to Topps, we are exposed to the Hobby's past while looking forward to its bright future. The reason why I collect is because by looking back at the players of the time, I get to understand and appreciate the history of the game a lot more.

I don't collect high end cards or sets. Too expensive for my blood, and somehow, most of the aesthetics of those kinds of cards don't appeal to me. The product becomes more about the hits than the base. You might as well pack cards without the base at that point...but that would outright stink. I'm not saying that the ills of patch faking, counterfeiting, and the like are not worth being concerned about. If this is your focus, it pays to be vigilant. But because I don't collect them, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Of course there are negative aspects of our Hobby. It's been going on for centuries. And, with everything else, we tend to hear more about, or focus on the negatives of our Hobby. And then we wonder if there is anything good that comes out of it. Of course there are...but it's much more fun to dwell on the negatives than build upon the positives right??? The card companies are not perfect. They never will. But we keep expecting them to be and I believe they do their best. But even if the day comes that the perfect baseball card product is brought to the masses, there will always be somebody who won't be satisfied.

I choose to think about the positives of the Hobby. It's probably more important to do so now more than ever. Because the Hobby, for all its faults, has a purpose. Like every Hobby, its sole purpose is to allow us to escape the realities in our lives, and look back to a time when life was simpler, without the worries and stresses we burden ourselves with in our daily lives. The Hobby is meant to be fun. It's supposed to be fun. And it still is to me. But when we start adding the worries about the Hobby TO OUR Hobby, it stops becoming fun. And that's when we start having problems with it.

Before I go off into ramble mode, I think the point is for me is that the players change, eras change, times change. Change is a constant. The things that remain, however, are that the basic rules of the game, the basics of the Hobby, and the enjoyment I get out of this Hobby will never change. I know I write all this with a bit of naïvety, but the truth is that the Hobby itself never lost its innocence.

Only the people who got involved in it did.

(I apologize for the lack of focus this post deserves. But I think, based on what is written, you will know where I stand).

 

[msink28]

The complete devaluation of star player autographs. Most star players can be had for less than $20. Only a few guys can't be had for less than $40. You can even buy a Griffey, Ripken, or Ryan auto for < $40 on a good day.

 

[Ty Hope]

- stickers
- "event used" items
- products that are severely overpriced
- entire boxes that are way OC
- missing hits from boxes or cases
- "RC" autos like 5 years in a row

 

[mannyramirezcollec]

The complete devaluation of star player autographs. Most star players can be had for less than $20. Only a few guys can't be had for less than $40. You can even buy a Griffey, Ripken, or Ryan auto for < $40 on a good day.

I think thats actually one of my favorite parts of the hobby

 

[Mozzie22]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

 

[jrinne]

My only beef is when bowman releases a card of a guy who has been let go. I know they cant predict who will stay and who will go but how does a guy like Danny Valencia not have a card. Decent stats in the minors starting with Beloit and still 3 years later and nothing. I don't think the Bowman scouts really care who will be in the sets.

 

[carlitoson]

...how does a guy like Danny Valencia not have a card. Decent stats in the minors starting with Beloit and still 3 years later and nothing. I don't think the Bowman scouts really care who will be in the sets.

Initial checklists show him having a base card in Bowman Draft, and a base card and an autograph in Bowman Sterling. Just FYI.

 

[miguelcabrera]

lol wait.....theres bowman scouts?

 

[Zeeck]

My beef is with the player photographs used in modern sets, and the lack of variety. In modern cards, the same company will use the same photo of a player not only for every card, parallel and subset within a set, but even across multiple sets as well. Contrast that with '89 Score Football, for example, which features four cards of Jerry Rice, all featuring a different picture. How difficult is that? In this respect, card companies have just gotten lazy, and even more so with their increased use of photoshop.

 

[tikitomoka]

Many things, but two of the main ones are
1) box value. there's nothing worse that dropping atleast 70 bucks on $15 worth of hits. I feel like the card companies could do so much more to improve this, but, uh, don't

2) questionability of GU swatches. I'm still convinced that the patches used in the 09 SPA football RPA's were fake. It's sad when people avoid GU cards of their pc guy because they don't know if that guy even wore it. Upper deck is mainly the one this concerns me about.

 

[MartinFFcollector]

I could go on for awhile. Leaving work in a few so I'll only list my main gripe.

The card companies failure to protect the value of the secondary market (and losing customers who were duped) due to scams. I know scams are in all hobbies. I know nothing is 100%. But I see many loopholes they leave open and problems that they made and are made aware of, yet they continue to repeat the same pattern.

I read on (dare I say it? ) Beckett today where someone suggested that the card companies authenticate the cards. Heck they made them. Great idea! And as I know 1st hand, the info that goes from the company to BGS can sometimes be innacurate or incomplete. Hold the company that produces the product to be able to identify it as their own. I know in my industry we have to (Traceback).

 

[schmidtfan20]

hmmm did someone say there are no solutions? Seems to be a lot of bitching here.

Game used cards.

1. Would patch cards be special if there wer not thousands of one color jobs out there?
2. Why do 9 out of 10 people care about GU being legit and almost no one cares about
autographs. Doesn't it bother you that only topps watches the cards (or stickers) being
signed? Who really knows who signs those hundreds of stickers that UD and Panini
uses? How much of your personal collection does this represent?
3. On card autographs are great, but they cost more and are a pain in the ass. The main
reason they are not used is that the card company has to have the cards printed
BEFORE and this creates problems.
4. Would the hobby go on if on card autos were completely gone....YEP
5. The card companies already tried to fix the patch faking problem, they put pieces of
cardboard over the swatch........and we told them they were ugly.
6. For every box that you make your money back on, in which topps spent more in cost
than you did on the box, there are 100 boxes that yield 15 bucks in book. That is
just the name of the game.
7. If we don't police the hobby and speak out STRONGLY on issues, who is going to? The
major card companies have always cared less after the product hit. The only thing they
care about after the sale, is their reputation. If they can get away with a weak offering
then they will try it again. When I buy something on the internet, I don't read the
positive reviews, I read the negative ones! I want to know what was wrong if anything.
8. Its a catch 22 on the watering down of values on star autograph card. Sure 10 years
ago a Ripken autograph was worth a ton, but today not so much, but we still want
Ripken in products...we can't have both.
9. I am convinced that the grading card companies pay the card companies to off center
cards. Its the 21st century folks, if they wanted to cut them straight they could!
10. Topps sold all their patch material to UD...but now, they can't so they are using it
in products...I like this.
11. Its not a hobby at 100 dollars a pack, its a business period.

Thanks
Kevin

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

This point of yours is particularly important - but I just don't see WHY the heck manufacturers should care about the secondary market...and this is a GREAT thing.

If manufacturers got more involved in the secondary market they'd control everything and people here would bitch and many sellers would leave the hobby entirely. Besides there is much more money to be made on the primary market anyway and the primary market is much more easy to control for them after they comply with MLB/MLBPA licensing issues.

I suspect Topps will continue to prove that they're not interested in the secondary market for various reasons, some of which will be purposeful in nature.

7. If we don't police the hobby and speak out STRONGLY on issues, who is going to? The
major card companies have always cared less after the product hit. The only thing they
care about after the sale, is their reputation. If they can get away with a weak offering
then they will try it again...