"Prospect Rush" is live.

uniquebaseballcards · Mar 11, 2013

Mighty Bombjack said:
I want to echo what mjbuchanan80 has said above. I don't like this or any repack product because anyone can do it ad infinitum. Sell these cards right back to Prospect Rush so you can gamble on them again next year, if that's what gives you thrills. People keep saying, "it's a gamble, nothing more and nothing less." True, but not many are willing to explicitly state that these products are a result of the devolution of what was once a hobby. Does anyone call scratching tickets or buying lottery numbers a hobby? Not that I've ever heard. Those tickets, just like current base cards and non-auto/gu/color card, go right into the trash. Further, when people defend the product by directly relating the ROI of it to that of Bowman Chrome or some such product, they are stating that they don't care about the content of a product outside of what it can be sold for. Topps is a poorly run company that seems to be getting shadier and shadier, but at the least they support and are supported by MLB and a huge number of professional players at all levels. They have a relationship with their content, a relationship that used to extend to the consumer as an actual fan of baseball and its teams and players. That is going away quickly, and I feel old for lamenting it, but I will continue to do so.

Off of soapbox for now...

I'd look at it this way: the hobby just doesn't need or benefit from repacked product.

Mighty Bombjack · Mar 11, 2013

soakley123 said:
so your argument might as well be you don't like baseball and this product is stupid and he's a terrible businessman and lacks intelligence and character for making a baseball product...at least we could understand that argument, try again

I love baseball and he doesn't make a baseball product in my view (though I spoke nothing of his intelligence or character).

You don't understand my argument? I guess I will slow it down for you: this is simply the most recent and most explicit result of what used to be a hobby about baseball devolving into straight gambling. Topps at least makes a baseball product through a relationship with the content. Lottery tickets at least benefit our parks and other public works. I don't see the positives of this product.

That is all. Simple enough for you this time?

Mighty Bombjack · Mar 11, 2013

uniquebaseballcards said:
I'd look at it this way: the hobby just doesn't need or benefit from repacked product.

Agreed.

Leaf · Mar 11, 2013

soakley123 said:
I want to be clear, this is not the kind of product/gamble that I'm into. I like knowing that player lots, refs, etc are there to back me in case my autos suck in my case of BC, etc. I think that to a degree people are crying unfair because it's more clear to the average intelligent person how much profit the guy is making off of this product...but what did you expect? If you buy a $195 box you have a 1/500 chance at a Soler Super Auto, Red Dahl, Red Addison, Red Bradley, Purple Bundy, etc, etc, etc. The math on lottery scratch offs and slot machines is downright criminal (and people make that argument well enough to keep lottery out of some states and casinos out of many states), but people just keep on buying them. 1/500 is the best shot that anyone is ever going to get at a huge hit like that and I think there are plenty of people happy to take that chance. I've only seen a few breaks and personally I was doing the math thinking wow that sucks, but all of the guys who paid $65/spot and got their Blue Bauer Refractor Auto 9.5/10 or Lincecum Refractor Auto or Bundy Base Auto 9.5/10 seemed to be perfectly content with "winning" that or "just losing $65." How much money do you think the guy is supposed to make? I'd assume it looks like after purchasing, packaging, paying some employees for labor (contracting out various parts) he'll probably double his money...but we are talking about a guy putting up $40K-$50K up front to make this happen. I'm not mad he's making money but I think that a lot of the hate on here comes from everyone thinking that they could have done the same thing. Well if you have $50K sitting around knock yourself out.

If he is doubling, that's not a great buy.. On $185 cost buyback leaf items, our cost to make is 150.00!!!!

There is a place for this in the market. At a tight margin, customers love the opportunity to gamble a bit with solid valued pulls.

It's not for everyone. But, over the years I've come to the conclusion that the hobby dollar will be the deciding vote. What scares me is these "new" entrants have no accountability and no real "skins in the game"..

Leaf does $20mil per year in sales (only $1 million or so in buybacks).. I can confidently say that we are easily the company in this part of the market which is (a) most financially solid and (b) most invested in the business long term..

BG

Bob Loblaw · Mar 11, 2013

Leaf said:
If he is doubling, that's not a great buy.. On $185 cost buyback leaf items, our cost to make is 150.00!!!!

There is a place for this in the market. At a tight margin, customers love the opportunity to gamble a bit with solid valued pulls.

It's not for everyone. But, over the years I've come to the conclusion that the hobby dollar will be the deciding vote. What scares me is these "new" entrants have no accountability and no real "skins in the game"..

Leaf does $20mil per year in sales (only $1 million or so in buybacks).. I can confidently say that we are easily the company in this part of the market which is (a) most financially solid and (b) most invested in the business long term..

BG

Agree wholeheartedly with Brian. As a real manufacturer of cards, if something shady goes on in his repackaged product, it affects each and every line he has. If Prospect Rush is deemed to be shady, then they close their doors and open up as something else.

cgilmo · Mar 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
Wrong again.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

No... im correct in every way here.

Bob Loblaw · Mar 11, 2013

cgilmo said:
No... im correct in every way here.

How can you say you're right when you know nothing about me? Just because I never owned a shop doesn't mean I wasn't involved in the industry.

For a few years, in the late 80s/early 90s, I sold at bi-weekly shows where, I assure you, I interacted with a number of hobby folks in the Miami area, and had a pretty good mail order business. But go on believing what you want.

cgilmo · Mar 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
How can you say you're right when you know nothing about me? Just because I never owned a shop doesn't mean I wasn't involved in the industry.

For a few years, in the late 80s/early 90s, I sold at bi-weekly shows where, I assure you, I interacted with a number of hobby folks in the Miami area, and had a pretty good mail order business. But go on believing what you want.

And you were involved in thhe production or distribution of soorts card product?

See my earlier comment about how everyone with an ebay account isnt oart of the industry.'

Bob Loblaw · Mar 11, 2013

cgilmo said:
And you were involved in thhe production or distribution of soorts card product?

See my earlier comment about how everyone with an ebay account isnt oart of the industry.'

I was never involved with the production. I was not involved in the distribution of wax product except as an end retailer at shows. I'm not sure what your point is. Just because I didn't have a store doesn't mean that I didn't see the shady side of the hobby 20 years ago. I was involved in this hobby for 15+ years prior to eBay existing.

cgilmo · Mar 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
I was never involved with the production. I was not involved in the distribution of wax product except as an end retailer at shows. I'm not sure what your point is. Just because I didn't have a store doesn't mean that I didn't see the shady side of the hobby 20 years ago. I was involved in this hobby for 15+ years prior to eBay existing.

You throw that 30 years thing around to equate yourself with others in the industry who actually make this work full time. Ive seen you do it before and its insulting to those with long histories in this industry.

I should also note that my 4 years does not qualify me as someone with a long history.

A_Pharis · Mar 11, 2013

Just so it's clear: "Not everyone who fires up an ebay account is in the industry" easily translates into "Not everyone who plops a table down a couple of times a year is in the industry" in lieu of the times.

phillyfan0417 · Mar 11, 2013

This is what it sounds like when the doves cry...

A_Pharis · Mar 11, 2013

phillyfan0417 said:
This is what it sounds like when the doves cry...

Great, now a song is stuck in my head.

Bob Loblaw · Mar 11, 2013

cgilmo said:
You throw that 30 years thing around to equate yourself with others in the industry who actually make this work full time. Ive seen you do it before and its insulting to those with long histories in this industry.

I should also note that my 4 years does not qualify me as someone with a long history.

Are you kidding me?

I said 30 years because I've been involved in this hobby in one way or another since 1981, not to "equate" myself. I don't have to "equate" myself to anything, nor do I want to. I was 8 at that time, so certainly I wasn't that heavily involved. My point was -and if you go back and read - was that I've seen a lot of shady things in this industry. Call it a hobby if you want. Just because I didn't have a store, or didn't have a website in the 80s or 90s, doesn't mean I don't know anything. And if I insulted Warren Wolk, or someone else who has been in this hobby for 30+ years, then I deeply apologize to Mr. Wolk or to them. But I don't think they're too insulted. I'm sure they can sleep at night because someone said they were involved in this shady industry for 30 years.

Jesus, it's like you WANT to argue about something that's completely irrelevant. Who the XXXX cares? The bottom line is that this industry is shady. Period. Anyone who's been it 4 years or 30 years or 3 minutes can tell that.

Bob Loblaw · Mar 11, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Just so it's clear: "Not everyone who fires up an ebay account is in the industry" easily translates into "Not everyone who plops a table down a couple of times a year is in the industry" in lieu of the times.

It was 25-30 times a year for a few years, but thank you, Mr. Helper.

Chris is an intelligent individual who can speak for himself.

James52411 · Mar 11, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Great, now a song is stuck in my head.

If a song is going to be stuck in all of our heads, it needs to be this one:

phillyfan0417 · Mar 11, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Great, now a song is stuck in my head.

One of the ladies who works for me wore paisley pants today so....it needed to be passed on!

A_Pharis · Mar 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
It was 25-30 times a year for a few years, but thank you, Mr. Helper.

Chris is an intelligent individual who can speak for himself.

Well, it didn't seem like you were understanding the point he was trying to make - which seems to be your MO.
I know it's done by you, intentionally, so if you have any desire to further this type of feigned ignorance I will gladly make it clear as a bell...

A_Pharis · Mar 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
Jesus, it's like you WANT to argue about something that's completely irrelevant.

Irony.

Bob Loblaw · Mar 11, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Well, it didn't seem like you were understanding the point he was trying to make - which seems to be your MO.
I know it's done by you, intentionally, so if you have any desire to further this type of feigned ignorance I will gladly make it clear as a bell... at least - as clear as it needs to be concerning your presence here.

I assure you, all of the ignorance I proffer is not feigned, but genuine.

And there's quite a bit of it.

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