Trivia: Who led MLB in WAR in 2011 according to baseball-reference?

[RogerMarisCollector61]

Trivia: Who led MLB in WAR in 2011 according to baseball-reference?

 

[Dmscards]

Kemp?

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

Kemp?

nope

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Wow, I was surprised with both league leaders.

 

[chompsmcgee]

Baseball reference WAR: Zobrist 8.8, Ellsbury 8.1
Fanraphs WAR: Zobrist 6.3, Ellsbury 9.1

WAR Comparison Chart - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

Baseball reference WAR: Zobrist 8.8, Ellsbury 8.1
Fanraphs WAR: Zobrist 6.3, Ellsbury 9.1

WAR Comparison Chart - Baseball-Reference.com

I don't like bWAR for offensive players I think it overvalues defense and it seems to fluctuate year to year for players in large amounts. I think fWAR is horrible for pitchers though, because FIP is flawed.

Anyways, neither zobrist nor ellsbury led MLB in WAR that year.

 

[chompsmcgee]

I don't like bWAR for offensive players I think it overvalues defense and it seems to fluctuate year to year for players in large amounts. I think fWAR is horrible for pitchers though, because FIP is flawed.

Anyways, neither zobrist nor ellsbury led MLB in WAR that year.

Cliff Lee BR 9.2 FG 6.5

All stats are flawed. I prefer fangraphs and the utilization of UZR.

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

Cliff Lee BR 9.2 FG 6.5

All stats are flawed. I prefer fangraphs and the utilization of UZR.

Yeah fWAR is awesome UZR is good. Everyone says defensive metrics aren't accurate but I rarely see someone's UZR and am surprised based on their reputation.

The reason Cliff Lee led MLB in WAR despite being 2nd in pitcher WAR is because he hit well and played good defense, so I do like how baseball-reference encompasses that into the stat. To my knowledge fangraphs does not.

 

[Austin]

I don't like these new sabermetric stats like WAR and UZR.
Even OPS took a while for me to get used to.
I just like the old fashioned stats like batting avg., home runs, stolen bases, runs, on base percentage, rbi, doubles, wins, era, Ks, etc.
It's just more fun that way, instead of over-analyzing everything.
Leave WAR to the general managers.

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

I don't like these new sabermetric stats like WAR and UZR.
Even OPS took a while for me to get used to.
I just like the old fashioned stats like batting avg., home runs, stolen bases, runs, on base percentage, rbi, doubles, wins, era, Ks, etc.
It's just more fun that way, instead of over-analyzing everything.
Leave WAR to the general managers.

I love sabermetrics. I have a lot of fun just looking on fangraphs at every bit of information I can find. It really turns your view of baseball upside down. However, when I watch the phillies I throw all knowledge out the window and enjoy myself/throw things.

 

[chompsmcgee]

Yeah fWAR is awesome UZR is good. Everyone says defensive metrics aren't accurate but I rarely see someone's UZR and am surprised based on their reputation.

The reason Cliff Lee led MLB in WAR despite being 2nd in pitcher WAR is because he hit well and played good defense, so I do like how baseball-reference encompasses that into the stat. To my knowledge fangraphs does not.

Agreed on UZR. And you are correct - FG does not use pitcher's hitting stats so very cool observation.

I don't like these new sabermetric stats like WAR and UZR.
Even OPS took a while for me to get used to.
I just like the old fashioned stats like batting avg., home runs, stolen bases, runs, on base percentage, rbi, doubles, wins, era, Ks, etc.
It's just more fun that way, instead of over-analyzing everything.
Leave WAR to the general managers.

It takes effort to learn how to digest and contextualize the numbers. Evolution is scary to a lot of people.

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

It takes effort to learn how to digest and contextualize the numbers. Evolution is scary to a lot of people.[/QUOTE]

I don't blame fans for rejecting the "movement" because it's overwhelming and there aren't many announcers or analysts willing to point fans in the right direction. However, I think analysts on MLB network and espn (other than brian kenny and Eric Byrnes) need to adapt. I know it's time consuming having to find evidence for the words that come out of your mouth, but that is your job.
ex:
Harold Reynolds said a few days ago on mlb now, "Michael Young can use a glove."
1. I don't know what that means.
2. I've watched him every day all year and my eyes say he can't field
3. The evidence says he can't field.

 

[chompsmcgee]

I don't blame fans for rejecting the "movement" because it's overwhelming and there aren't many announcers or analysts willing to point fans in the right direction. However, I think analysts on MLB network and espn (other than brian kenny and Eric Byrnes) need to adapt. I know it's time consuming having to find evidence for the words that come out of your mouth, but that is your job.
ex:
Harold Reynolds said a few days ago on mlb now, "Michael Young can use a glove."
1. I don't know what that means.
2. I've watched him every day all year and my eyes say he can't field
3. The evidence says he can't field.

Ah the beauty of sabermetrics - alleviates most subjectivity from the equation

 

[chompsmcgee]

One guy can watch South Park and get a kick out of the dick and ball jokes and another can watch it and enjoy the depths of the social commentary. They're still both enjoying the show.

To each his own.

 

[chompsmcgee]

Well since we're onto post analysis - I'm honestly not sure what to make of you, Austin. You comment on just about every topic and most of the time it's unnecessary, out of context, or just plain out of your ass. For example: you wildly claimed Josh Donaldson was a better choice than Cespedes for the HR derby and then Cespy goes out and wins the damn thing. Maybe it's just that I'm just not sure how much baseball you truly comprehend without the use of google or perhaps I'm trying to prompt you to watch the game before throwing in your two cents.

But then again, it's a baseball card message board so maybe one shouldn't get caught up in the nonsensical musings of another member. Who knows, I'm just killing time at the end of the day.

Go ahead bud, the last word is all yours.

 

[RogerMarisCollector61]

As I said before, it's difficult to get into sabermetrics. It takes effort a lot of people aren't willing to dole out. I enjoy it, but I don't blame people for not wanting to spend time doing something they aren't interested in. I understand watching sports is a hobby and not a job, so if you just want to chill and watch I don't blame you I just enjoy learning more about the game that I love.

 

[hive17]

The only problem I have with Sabermetrics, WAR, FIP, etc. is when it comes to award season. Too many point to them to further their arguments for awards that are voted on.

If you want the MVP to be the guy with the highest WAR, them campaign for that rule change and see how far that gets you.