Who was the greatest Post-War pitcher?

[hofautos]

There are some real gems in this thread... here is my contribution.


Stephen Strasburg

In his first game he struck out 14 batters. .

Just like 3 seasons don't make a pitcher for Pedro, 1 season doesn't do it for strasburg.
Let's see if he even has a "decent' 2nd season...

If he played as many games as Nolan Ryan he would have ended up with 10,822 strikeouts.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[reljac]

 

[Moonlight Graham]

There are some real gems in this thread... here is my contribution.


Stephen Strasburg

In his first game he struck out 14 batters. If he played as many games as Nolan Ryan he would have ended up with 10,822 strikeouts. He once struck out 3 hitters in 1 inning. If he pitched as many innings as Ryan, that's 16,158 K's. You can not argue with his greatness.

Seasons are meaningless. Innings are what matter.

Seasons aren't meaningless. Innings totals are skewed by those very seasons.

I don't get it.


seasons / GS
Pedro 18 / 409
Seaver: 20 / 647
Johnson: 22 / 603
Clemens: 24 / 707
Gibson: 17 / 482
Maddux: 23 / 740


Why did Pedro pitch so little? Really, I don't know. It's hard to even count it as 18 seasons... in 1992 he started 1 game, 2007 5 games, 2009 9 games. See why seasons are meaningless?

5 Day rotation vs. 4 day rotations that were common through the 70's...

"Spahn & Sain, and two days of rain..."

 

[hofautos]

For what it's worth...

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hofautos
Member

can you compare clemens and/or gibsons peak season(s) as compared to pedro and see why pedro's war value is less? ERA, WHIP SO/9IP, and just about every other pitcher stat shows pedro as better, so why the discrepancy in WAR??
Posted 3 days ago #
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LeeTro (author on Fangraphs.com)
Member

Again, it's an innings problem. Pedro's 2 best years were 1999 and 2000, where he threw a combined 430 IP. Clemens threw 490 IP in his 2 best years and Gibson threw 620 IP. It's harder to get RAR when you don't pitch as many innings.

Another thing hurting Pedro is the offensive inflation. For those 2 years, it took about 11 runs to equal a win, instead of the normal 10. For Gibson's '68 season, 7 runs equaled a win, so his 85 RAR was worth 12 WAR instead of 8.

On a related note, you should realize that rWAR is only good for a retrospective look at a season/career, which seems to be your interest. Pedro's '99 season was actually his best season, and one of the best seasons ever, with a 1.39 FIP. However, he had a high BABIP, which the pitcher has very little control over, so his ERA "ballooned" to 2.07. rWAR has the season at 8.4, and fWAR at 12.1 WAR. Using FIP is better for future projections, which is part of why this site uses that route for WAR. Luck plays a big part in rWAR, so you can use it for looking at the past, but don't use it too much for the future.

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Actually Pedro's WAR numbers are better for 2 of his best seasons than any other pitcher, but after those 2 seasons, his other prime numbers are less...I personally would give Pedro the best 2 post-war seasons, but when you calculate any further, Gibson, Clemens, and Seaver all surpass him.

 

[elmalo]

Roger Clemens
closely followed by Pedro.

+1

Pedro's top 3 seasons can't be beat, but three seasons don't make a pitcher.
Clemens, Gibson, and Seaver beat Pedro. Where pedro had the best 2 seasons, his numbers went down quite a bit....still AS class seasons, but others had more MVP (8 WAR+) class seasons, and they pitched deeper in doing so.

Pedro is great, but could be flip-flopped in rankings with Koufax, Maddux, Carlton and others in their prime based on different criteria.
Clemens, Gibson, and Seaver 5 year, 7 year, 10 year, and careers were all better, and those 3 stand above the rest.

Agree with those 3 I'd put Marichal in that mix as well.