So HOW LOW are the Five Star boxes going to fall?

[BBCgalaxee]

This is silly, self-serving logic at best. How many products do kids - or anyone for that matter - really need? There's more than enough out there already for everyone.

And that thought "how many products..." Is what mlb & topps don't understand.

Its not "how many", its "type"

Nearly each & every product topps makes is "niche", meaning every one alienates a big portion of collectors.

Keep in mind theres about 23 baseball products made by topps:

Prospect loaded: 6 products
Retro: 4 products
$50 plus "packs": 7 products
Super low end: 5 products

That leaves only tc out.

Wheres all the middle of the road, $5/$6 packs using modern stock, players with 4 "things" a box?

In other words, what dominated the hobby for yrs (donruss was awesome at this, still does it well in fb)

bring back stuff built like classics, threads, champions, ill even take unique and....exhaling...an improved ticket to stardom.

 

[All The Hype]

I display things I enjoy (as do others) hoping others might come to enjoy these things as well.

I don't display things to make people think I have money or to make others jealous of me. There's no competition here.

Otherwise I've bought plenty of stuff that's now worthless - that seems to be how life generally works LOL.

It's not about competition at all. It's that you KNOW the cards are widely recognized as valuable/rare/etc. and are likely to be enjoyed by others because of this. So once again, you are taking their perceived value into account, even if you don't necessarily recognize it.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

The hobby was "bigger" when there were many companies making licensed cards. You are saying that the hobby is "bigger" now. I disagree completely. Less product means less people involved because there isn't as much out there. You can say that more options lessens the hobby, but I think you are 100% wrong. I hope that at LEAST Panini gets a license so there is at least a more choice.

This 'bigger' part makes no sense... the hobby became so 'big' with all the manufacturers and releases that it couldn't support itself causing manufacturers to go bankrupt and collectors to leave. 'Bigger', as we've seen, doesn't work.

Amount of product doesn't necessarily depend on number of releases even though you'd apparently like it to.

More releases aren't going to make more people join the hobby. People primarily like to be connected with other people; more releases only segments the hobby into smaller niches nobody cares about and makes the hobby smaller.

The best scenario is to have fewer releases that everyone enjoys. Unfortunately people (especially here) have become so niche-driven that they'd only appreciate a ridiculously small number of new cards that would come with 'additional choice' anyway and most everyone would only want to sell and not buy anything new. Sure, there are selfish people who'd want that mess, but anyone who cares about the hobby shouldn't be that selfish.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

It's not about competition at all. It's that you KNOW the cards are widely recognized as valuable/rare/etc. and are likely to be enjoyed by others because of this. So once again, you are taking their perceived value into account, even if you don't necessarily recognize it.

Sounds here like you're only trying to convince yourself here, I'm not trying to change your mind.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

And that thought "how many products..." Is what mlb & topps don't understand.

Its not "how many", its "type"

Nearly each & every product topps makes is "niche", meaning every one alienates a big portion of collectors.

Keep in mind theres about 23 baseball products made by topps:

Prospect loaded: 6 products
Retro: 4 products
$50 plus "packs": 7 products
Super low end: 5 products

That leaves only tc out.

Wheres all the middle of the road, $5/$6 packs using modern stock, players with 4 "things" a box?

In other words, what dominated the hobby for yrs (donruss was awesome at this, still does it well in fb)

bring back stuff built like classics, threads, champions, ill even take unique and....exhaling...an improved ticket to stardom.

I see things in a similar way, the hobby is too niche-driven and as a result is really segmented.

Cards have traditionally been a hobby that has been something enjoyed with others (think father-son, between friends, fans of a team, etc) but that community isn't there when the hobby's so segmented into so many small niches.

I agree more releases is only going to make more niches. Making more exacerbates the old status quo which drove people away. Make fewer releases that are more universally enjoyed and there will be better community in the hobby, which will help it grow.

 

[phillyfan0417]

I see things in a similar way, the hobby is too niche-driven and as a result is really segmented.

Cards have traditionally been a hobby that has been something enjoyed with others (think father-son, between friends, fans of a team, etc) but that community isn't there when the hobby's so segmented into so many small niches.

I agree more releases is only going to make more niches. Making more exacerbates the old status quo which drove people away. Make fewer releases that are more universally enjoyed and there will be better community in the hobby, which will help it grow.

Your reason for why people would lose interest is more choices, its illogical and seems like a personal agenda.

 

[sportscardtheory]

This 'bigger' part makes no sense... the hobby became so 'big' with all the manufacturers and releases that it couldn't support itself causing manufacturers to go bankrupt and collectors to leave. 'Bigger', as we've seen, doesn't work.

Amount of product doesn't necessarily depend on number of releases even though you'd apparently like it to.

More releases aren't going to make more people join the hobby. People primarily like to be connected with other people; more releases only segments the hobby into smaller niches nobody cares about and makes the hobby smaller.

The best scenario is to have fewer releases that everyone enjoys. Unfortunately people (especially here) have become so niche-driven that they'd only appreciate a ridiculously small number of new cards that would come with 'additional choice' anyway and most everyone would only want to sell and not buy anything new. Sure, there are selfish people who'd want that mess, but anyone who cares about the hobby shouldn't be that selfish.

You want to talk about "niche" and subdivisions in the hobby? All the cards in your sig are Topps cards. You ARE exactly what you are talking about here. You have segregated yourself by seemingly sticking to one brand. It's great that you like Topps. More power to you. But don't go preaching that the hobby was niched and fractured when you niche and fracture your own collecting habits. People collect what they want to collect, as do you. So what do you care if others want other licensed options. Is it because you are a Topps fanboy and love that "your" brand is top-dog simply by default? It seems like you are mainly a Topps collector and are just being greedy and close minded rather than simply liking a brand and sticking to it, ie your opinion is not based in logic and reason but is based on your own personal habits, which is selfish and self-serving.

 

[thefatguy]

This is silly, self-serving logic at best. How many products do kids - or anyone for that matter - really need? There's more than enough out there already for everyone.

Its not self serving logic, its the reasons given by Topps and MLB

 

[Lars]

I wouldn't mind another company but having only one company means less junk products that seem redundant.

It seemed like the 2000s was ripe for crap product put out by Fleer, Upper Deck and DLP.

 

[Mario1975]

This is silly, self-serving logic at best. How many products do kids - or anyone for that matter - really need? There's more than enough out there already for everyone.

How is this statement self serving? I'm just pointing out the alleged reason the exclusive license was given to Topps. The following was taken from an 09' NYT article:

By dropping UD, MLB hopes that Topps, under Eisner, the former CEO of Disney, can invigorate card collecting, especially with young fans. Eisner talking about the deal stated, "This is redirecting the entire category toward kids.". MLB in talking about trading cards stated ""It's a business that's critically important to our mission, to make players icons to kids". Eisner also referenced topps exclusive deal with the card maker of the English premier league as proof cards could appeal to fans 8 - 13 years old in the article.


Do you really think Topps is even attempting to do what they said? Do you think any kid, especially who is 8, can afford most of the products they put out? Do you think products based on prospects, retro styles and high end hits are really made to appeal to kids?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You want to talk about "niche" and subdivisions in the hobby? All the cards in your sig are Topps cards. You ARE exactly what you are talking about here. You have segregated yourself by seemingly sticking to one brand. It's great that you like Topps. More power to you. But don't go preaching that the hobby was niched and fractured when you niche and fracture your own collecting habits. People collect what they want to collect, as do you. So what do you care if others want other licensed options. Is it because you are a Topps fanboy and love that "your" brand is top-dog simply by default? It seems like you are mainly a Topps collector and are just being greedy and close minded rather than simply liking a brand and sticking to it, ie your opinion is not based in logic and reason but is based on your own personal habits, which is selfish and self-serving.

Done holding your breath yet? Anyone who reads this will think you're a small kid making things up.

You have no idea what my collection is like. But out of curiosity I just looked and about a third of my collection pre-2010 isn't Topps. Seems about right to me.

Your reason for why people would lose interest is more choices, its illogical and seems like a personal agenda.

You're not denying what happened when there WAS choices... certainly sounds a lot like either denial or sour grapes here. Probably both.

How is this statement self serving? I'm just pointing out the alleged reason the exclusive license was given to Topps. The following was taken from an 09' NYT article:

By dropping UD, MLB hopes that Topps, under Eisner, the former CEO of Disney, can invigorate card collecting, especially with young fans. Eisner talking about the deal stated, "This is redirecting the entire category toward kids.". MLB in talking about trading cards stated ""It's a business that's critically important to our mission, to make players icons to kids". Eisner also referenced topps exclusive deal with the card maker of the English premier league as proof cards could appeal to fans 8 - 13 years old in the article.

Do you really think Topps is even attempting to do what they said? Do you think any kid, especially who is 8, can afford most of the products they put out? Do you think products based on prospects, retro styles and high end hits are really made to appeal to kids?

Is your point that every card produced has to appeal to a kid or that kids can't afford even the slate of retail cards? Why wouldn't a kid want a retro-styled card or high end hit? I'd agree kids don't care about prospects (neither do most adults for that matter)... but aren't you agreeing with me by saying too much of this stuff is unnecessary? More product isn't going to make kids think cards are fun, kids especially will look at the mess of choices and think it complicated "adult stuff".

 

[phillyfan0417]

You're not denying what happened when there WAS choices... certainly sounds a lot like either denial or sour grapes here. Probably both.

You may want to look into the difference between CHOICE and QUALITY.

 

[Mario1975]

Done holding your breath yet? Anyone who reads this will think you're a small kid making things up.

You have no idea what my collection is like. But out of curiosity I just looked and about a third of my collection pre-2010 isn't Topps. Seems about right to me.



You're not denying what happened when there WAS choices... certainly sounds a lot like either denial or sour grapes here. Probably both.



Is your point that every card produced has to appeal to a kid or that kids can't afford even the slate of retail cards? Why wouldn't a kid want a retro-styled card or high end hit? I'd agree kids don't care about prospects (neither do most adults for that matter)... but aren't you agreeing with me by saying too much of this stuff is unnecessary? More product isn't going to make kids think cards are fun, kids especially will look at the mess of choices and think it complicated "adult stuff".

No. I'm just trying to point out that Topps purposely misled MLB to get an exclusive license. Almost all the products Topps has produced recently clearly aren't geared towards attracting kids to collecting. No way the majority of kids can afford or convince their parents to spend $50-$100 on a pack of cards and products like bowman and heritage are probably not attractive to kids. Besides base topps and topps chrome, I really don't see any other products kids can afford and would be attracted to. Now I'm not saying all products should be low end and geared towards children, but there should be much more then there are. I also don't understand the confusion argument or the less is more philosophy. I mean I remember as a kid walking into a hobby shop and seeing all the different products and loving it. I didn't get scared off or feel intimidated. Granted when I was a kid card companies weren't making as many products as they do now but I think there's a happy medium where maybe instead of one company making 25 products you could have 5 companies making 5 products.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[cgilmo]

There is a big difference between a marketing ploy and a contractual obligation.

Marketing to kids is a ploy.

 

[matfanofold]

The total context presented in this thread really highlights just how fractured this hobby/business is. Dont get me wrong, there has always been diversity involved, both in manyfacturing and buyers prefrence, but it is threads like this that really drive home the state of the hobby. There is a HUGE difference between diversity and 'fractured'. I honestly feel sorry for kids getting involved these days and have spent a good deal lately questioning the validity of the 'hobby' now, one that I have enjoyed for 30 years, and one that due to all the hostility, arrogance, forced segregation by manufacturers, and what has all but turned in to an all out money grab product after product, I think the joy has been simply squeezed out for me...

 

[Mario1975]

There is a big difference between a marketing ploy and a contractual obligation.

Marketing to kids is a ploy.

Not arguing there is a contractual obligation, just pointing out from the article that is seems Topps obtained the exclusive license on false pretenses by pitching to MLB that it would put its focus on attracting kids to collecting and the fact their CEO was the former CEO of Disney.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[Lars]

My best guess is Topps was willing to shell out the most money to be the exclusive licensee of MLB trading cards - it's nothing more complicated than that.

As been mentioned, anything else is just a ploy [or some fluff said after the fact] - it isn't like MLB is dictating Topps has to create a number of kid-friendly MLB trading cards or they'll lose their license or anything.

Not arguing there is a contractual obligation, just pointing out from the article that is seems Topps obtained the exclusive license on false pretenses by pitching to MLB that it would put its focus on attracting kids to collecting and the fact their CEO was the former CEO of Disney.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You may want to look into the difference between CHOICE and QUALITY.

I see you're trying a new angle but not presenting any evidence.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

No. I'm just trying to point out that Topps purposely misled MLB to get an exclusive license. Almost all the products Topps has produced recently clearly aren't geared towards attracting kids to collecting. No way the majority of kids can afford or convince their parents to spend $50-$100 on a pack of cards and products like bowman and heritage are probably not attractive to kids. Besides base topps and topps chrome, I really don't see any other products kids can afford and would be attracted to. Now I'm not saying all products should be low end and geared towards children, but there should be much more then there are.

Why wouldn't kids like Heritage? It looks exactly like the original cards kids loved in the '50s and '60s. I don't see kids generally buying more than $20 blasters, but aside from Bowman any of these other retail brands aren't much different in terms of appeal to what's been traditionally available to kids.

Saying there should be more for kids doesn't mean much when you're not specifically citing what kids should be having more of. As you said yourself, card companies weren't making as many products when you were a kid and yet you're still in the hobby anyway...so we already know lots of choice doesn't bring kids into the hobby.

 

[allstars]

Why wouldn't kids like Heritage? It looks exactly like the original cards kids loved in the '50s and '60s. I don't see kids generally buying more than $20 blasters, but aside from Bowman any of these other retail brands aren't much different in terms of appeal to what's been traditionally available to kids.

Saying there should be more for kids doesn't mean much when you're not specifically citing what kids should be having more of. As you said yourself, card companies weren't making as many products when you were a kid and yet you're still in the hobby anyway...so we already know lots of choice doesn't bring kids into the hobby.

Don't be naive man. How many cards would kids've bought in the 50's if they had the internet, playstation 3's & smartphone's? Cards are boring to most kids today. Same reason the stamp collecting hobby is all but dead. It's not a kids hobby & never will be again. Sad, but true. The adults dictate all that goes on in today's "hobby".