ESPN Reporting: Highly possible no one voted into the HOF this year

[uniquebaseballcards]

No, I wasn't. I considered the athletes that CLemens and Bonds were prior to the alleged use of PEDs, and they would have gotten in had they continued that career path, in my opinion.

If I was just looking at stats, I'd also vote for Sosa and McGwire and Biggio. THere's more than just numbers.

In order for Clemens and Bonds to have been HOFers prior to their used of PEDs they would've had HOF character and integrity. Clearly they didn't.

The only HOF criteria they ever met was stats.

 

[nappyd]

Dale Murphy better get in. If he had played for the Dodgers, Red Sox, or Yankees he would have been in already.

well yeah if he'd been on any team with a pulse in the 80's he'd be in.

 

[sportscardtheory]

They should change it to the Baseball Hall of Infamous and vote in all the players with ties to PEDs.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

In order for Clemens and Bonds to have been HOFers prior to their used of PEDs they would've had HOF character and integrity. Clearly they didn't.

The only HOF criteria they ever met was stats.

1. They didn't, IN YOUR OPINION.

2. What, exactly, is HOF character and integrity? To go back to my previous post and paraphrase, there are a ton of HOFers who are true scumbags.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Even PED users have different degrees of character and integrity - so I can see certain PED users getting in eventually and wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it depending on the circumstance. However Bonds and Clemens in particular have pretty much shown the lowest levels of integrity and character imaginable - they put themselves above the game. None of this is black and white and involves subjectivity.

Of course character and integrity only apply to the game itself... by the same token its not like a player can get credit for an RBI off the diamond. HOF criteria apply to baseball.

I don't think 'of course' fits. Character and integrity extend beyond one's profession. And unless I missed something in the rules for HoF voting, the voters aren't expected to limit their judging of those traits possessed by the candidates based solely on how they apply to baseball.

Do you have a link to voting rules or something to support "Of course character and integrity only apply to the game itself"? Without that being in the rules, use of 'on-field' character and integrity but not 'off-field' character and integrity as components of your equation is internally inconsistent.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

1. They didn't, IN YOUR OPINION.

2. What, exactly, is HOF character and integrity? To go back to my previous post and paraphrase, there are a ton of HOFers who are true scumbags.

Of course, but the entire voting process is based on opinion - even when evaluating cold, hard stats so this doesn't mean anything. Happily voting has always been subjective, although record/stats least so.

Bonds and Clemens consistently put their physical talent and skill on display, but when Clemens and Bonds had their opportunity to display HOF character and integrity - within baseball- these attributes were decidedly not HOF-worthy. So egregious were their offenses that if one has to ask why then one's not including character and integrity in their evaluation process and are only relying on stats.

Bonds and Clemens were simply scumbags when it came to the game of baseball. It doesn't matter if these guys are scumbags outside of baseball... its called the National Baseball Hall of Fame, not the Life Hall of Fame. They were good enough for the MLB when they played but not good enough for the HOF... although Bonds was essentially kicked out of the MLB.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

I think any voter who covered PED users but didn't report on it before the story gained real traction should not eliminate PED users from their consideration solely based on PED use.

There are probably also many incorrect assumptions about which category (user/non-user) many players fall into. With uncertainty about who actually was clean and who wasn't, you risk turning this voting process into a not-so-life-or-death witch hunt if you automatically eliminate suspected PED users from consideration. That sounds less than optimal to me.

Also, I think plenty of PED use (maybe not as much steroids/HGH, but plenty of other stuff) occurred long before the late 80s/90s (I encourage you to read Ball Four if you haven't already done so), and reporters from those times also tended to ignore it. Makes me think that there are plenty of PED users from prior voting periods already in the HoF.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I don't think 'of course' fits. Character and integrity extend beyond one's profession. And unless I missed something in the rules for HoF voting, the voters aren't expected to limit their judging of those traits possessed by the candidates based solely on how they apply to baseball.

Do you have a link to voting rules or something to support "Of course character and integrity only apply to the game itself"? Without that being in the rules, use of 'on-field' character and integrity but not 'off-field' character and integrity as components of your equation is internally inconsistent.

Isn't it called the Baseball Hall of Fame? If Bonds cheated in a game of poker would he ineligible the baseball hall of fame? Of course this is just another subjective determination for a voter to make, but activities outside of baseball carry almost zero weight.

If you're looking for the voting criteria, a google search will help, I forget the rule number - it may be number five but I forget.

 

[Pine Tar]

Of course, but the entire voting process is based on opinion - even when evaluating cold, hard stats so this doesn't mean anything. Happily voting has always been subjective, although record/stats least so.

Bonds and Clemens consistently put their physical talent and skill on display, but when Clemens and Bonds had their opportunity to display HOF character and integrity - within baseball- these attributes were decidedly not HOF-worthy. So egregious were their offenses that if one has to ask why then one's not including character and integrity in their evaluation process and are only relying on stats.

Bonds and Clemens were simply scumbags when it came to the game of baseball. It doesn't matter if these guys are scumbags outside of baseball... its called the National Baseball Hall of Fame, not the Life Hall of Fame. They were good enough for the MLB when they played but not good enough for the HOF... although Bonds was essentially kicked out of the MLB.

Um actually black listed from baseball, so he never signed ever again with a team and left Baseball.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Um actually black listed from baseball, so he never signed ever again with a team and left Baseball.

There you have it. I thought teams colluded against him.

 

[Pine Tar]

There you have it. I thought teams colluded against him.

Well there you have it. The same thing.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

If Lance Armstrong has proven anything, it's that drug testing is exactly what the experts say it is...an absolute joke. And the testing in cycling is tougher than baseball.

We all allowed the "Steroid Era" just as we allowed the "tainted" eras before and we all allow it to continue.

The only shame is the hypocrisy in the judging of others we promoted and revered...while either accepting their "flaws" or being dumb and blind.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Man, Tim Raines is PISSED OFF...

Just kidding... but really... this morning, I heard on ESPN radio Mike & Mike that this year no one might get voted into the Baseball HOF.

They said Biggio is at about 70% and is the best possible to make it. The next highest is like Jack Morris with like only 60-65%.

Thoughts?

Here is an article which was posted this week on ESPN.com - Jayson Stark's MLB Hall of Fame ballot - ESPN

Stark generally comes across as quite thoughful in his writing, and this piece is no exception. I tend to agree with his thought processes mentioned in the article. If I had a vote, I'm not sure I would have voted for all the same players he did, but I certainly wouldn't exclude guys solely due use (or suspected use) of PEDs.

 

[klute14]

CAN I GET A WITNESS!!!!
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!

The GREATEST Rock n Roll band of all time!!! (IMHO of course)

Until KISS gets in, the Hall of Fame is a sham.

 

[klute14]

Pre alleged steroids, Bonds and Clemens were dominant. Piazza was a HOF'er.

Those three should make it in. Sosa and McGwire owe their success to PEDs.

Biggio shouldn't make it in. He's very good, but no one ever feared Biggio. Jack Morris should make it in as well.

I'm usually against new additions, but I think those four should make it.

If Andre freaking Dawson and Jim freaking Rice are in, they should be in.

Well, thank goodness your opinion doesn't matter with the writers.

 

[Labratt21]

Bill Simmons wrote an interesting article in 2007 when McGwire first appeared on the ballot: Sports Guy Time Machine: Baseball HOF Revisited - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

If they decide to let the PED guys in, fine, whatever. But they don't get in before Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Isn't it called the Baseball Hall of Fame? If Bonds cheated in a game of poker would he ineligible the baseball hall of fame? Of course this is just another subjective determination for a voter to make, but activities outside of baseball carry almost zero weight.

If you're looking for the voting criteria, a google search will help, I forget the rule number - it may be number five but I forget.

You were the one who referenced some criteria, but don't support with any proof that said criteria even exists.

Let me help you:

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

Note that all the other terms besides character and integrity reference the game. Those two don't, and thus it's not clear that those two are to be considered only as they relate to baseball. I believe, unless you have proof otherwise, my point stands.

 

[Super Mario]

CAN I GET A WITNESS!!!!
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!

The GREATEST Rock n Roll band of all time!!! (IMHO of course)

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII agree!!

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You were the one who referenced some criteria, but don't support with any proof that said criteria even exists.

Let me help you:

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

Note that all the other terms besides character and integrity reference the game. Those two don't, and thus it's not clear that those two are to be considered only as they relate to baseball. I believe, unless you have proof otherwise, my point stands.

Where do you see this?

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Bill Simmons wrote an interesting article in 2007 when McGwire first appeared on the ballot: Sports Guy Time Machine: Baseball HOF Revisited - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

If they decide to let the PED guys in, fine, whatever. But they don't get in before Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose.

Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe need to be reinstated prior to that...and Selig isn't going to do that. Pete is too interesting as baseball's pariah to let him back at this point. He's like the Cubs...a far more interesting subject as the loser than if he was back as a "winner." And Shoeless Joe, well, I have faith that the next commissioner will reinstate him.