So looks like Leaf is on to something....

[Hendersonfan]

I meant MLB for making Topps sole company with rights.

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[padremurph]

Why does everyone care so much? If Leaf includes logos, I'll be happy. Why does it matter how he goes about it? Everyone complains about Topps being a monopoly then everyone screams at BG. I don't get it.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

No, you should be pissed at Selig and the MLB for allowing it, taking a huge payout to sellout the license.

Exactly right. I wish MLB would just admit that it makes enough damn money as is and let people print these cards with an MLBPA license. We just don't live in that type of culture. In parallel, it would be crazy for Topps to fight against its own business interests. An exclusive contract helps their immediate bottom line, and I don't know who could disagree with such. Conversely, BG would not be interested in the first amendment if he were the recipient of that exclusive license, even if he did think it was against the interest of the hobby as a whole (he sure argued on these very boards that a certain Matt Weiters exclusive contract was fantastic, but I have since seen many here argue that that type of contract hurts the hobby-I wonder if BG's views on this have evolved).

again, this is a great and heady topic

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Why does everyone care so much? If Leaf includes logos, I'll be happy. Why does it matter how he goes about it? Everyone complains about Topps being a monopoly then everyone screams at BG. I don't get it.

I don't think any of us are telling BG that he's wrong to want what he wants. We are telling him that we doubt he will get it through the route he is boasting about here. We also doubt that he is doing this for the hobby because he is plenty rich enough.

I hope I'm wrong, because it would change the hobby greatly for the positive (in the long run if not the short run).

 

[Leaf]

I am looking for this case, but all I see is a case between Cardtoons and MLBPA, not MLB. Was there one that I can't find? The logo use issue is one involving MLB, not MLBPA, correct?

Do you have an MLBPA license, BG?

In cardtoons, while the primary issue was parody the judge goes a step further.

In his decision, he states that the cards would be 1st amendment protected if they have news , educational or informative value..

Stats and bio do the trick..

BG

 

[Leaf]

Why would I be pissed at Topps? I'm pissed at MLB, as they were the ones that created the mess in the first place. All of the companies around at the time had the ability to get the "exclusive", and Topps was the winner. If Brian had been around at the time and had won the deal, I'd still just be pissed at MLB, not at Razor / Leaf for having won it.

And yes I do like to collect cards, and I do wish there were more options. I would like to see a level playing field, hell, I'd even like to either see Topps lose the ability to have individual player contracts or allow everyone to have them to remove the "Bowman advantage" (I loved all of the late releases in 2004 and would love to see that happen every year). But if you think Brian is in this to make the hobby "better", you are naive. I think even he would say he's in this to make $, and to that end I don't even fault him for that. Everyone deserves to be able to make money. I just think there are better ways to do so than the ones he employs.

I want to make the hobby better AND make a living... This isn't a communist country ya know.. BG

 

[TwinGnats]

Actually Communism and Socialism sanction theft via the hammer of government. I would like to add to my prediction that a judge payoff may be included in the strategy. In a free market system we have a thing called private property, when we own something it is ours to do with what we want. May that be your home or your Cleveland Indians logo.

I want to make the hobby better AND make a living... This isn't a communist country ya know.. BG

 

[Leaf]

Actually Communism and Socialism sanction theft via the hammer of government. I would like to add to my prediction that a judge payoff may be included in the strategy. In a free market system we have a thing called private property, when we own something it is ours to do with what we want. May that be your home or your Cleveland Indians logo.

If this were true, Harper would get paid when they put him on the cover of a magazine.. And he's not!

I've already spent $100k and several years of my life preparing for the day..
Hopefully, it won't come..

But, that decision is now out of my hands.. If the licensors don't handle their business in the interest of The hobby as a whole, someone has to say we've all had enough...BG

 

[TwinGnats]

The hobby doesn't have the right to extort what they want from a private property owner. Magazines fall under fair use as the use of the picture become transformational when it is utilized to provide commentary. You are providing no commentary (legal issue), you're just a common thief if you take their property without permission/payment (moral/ethics issue...not that these issue impact your decision making). No different than if you walked into Target and stole a television.

If this were true, Harper would get paid when they put him on the cover of a magazine.. And he's not!

I've already spent $100k and several years of my life preparing for the day..
Hopefully, it won't come..

But, that decision is now out of my hands.. If the licensors don't handle their business in the interest of The hobby as a whole, someone has to say we've all had enough...BG

 

[BBCgalaxee]

Ok so here's my side, coming from over fifteen years as a store owner. In other words, straight from the front line.

While topps makes the same robotic baseball products year in year out, leaf has constantly offered different, even unique products.

Topps has become a pretty shady and lazy company.

Wether it's very vague "cover your ass" on every card language regarding "relics", using benches while trying to pass it off as bats, putting the wrong patches on cards (verified by mlb holo), making redemptions with zero intentions of fulfilling, XXXXing etopps customers, making inexcusable errors, completely flooding the products with mass redemptions only to be replaced with Josh vitters autos, inept customer service with crazy long wait times etc etc.

And yet, they get a pass.

All the while leaf has made quality products and if you get a redemption (IF!) it's generally available asap with no strings or bs attached.

And at the same time, they've released unique "outside the box" issues like the ichiro product, Pete rose legend ( $20 a box with a rose auto!!!!!), perfect game (auto a pack for $10!), just vault, pinstripe cut autos, etc.

All the while topps has made 20 plus productss of retro, prospects, retro, prospects, retro, prospects, base, retro, base. Same old same old year in year out. No variety.

My only problem with leaf is that many of their products are "one and done" boxes with a high srp. Now I understand base cards aren't in demand much but it's a lot easier to sell a $100 box with 10, 20 or 24 packs than a $100 box with five cards.

And because of that, I haven't carried as many leaf products as I'd like But maybe this will change if this big news becomes reality.

There is no reason why there shouldn't be more companies making cards, plain and simple. So I'll never understand why there's people who just hate them.



Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[DaClyde]

Actually Communism and Socialism sanction theft via the hammer of government. I would like to add to my prediction that a judge payoff may be included in the strategy.

Fascinating because the modern form of Capitalism works exactly the same way through special interest lobbies, rampant bribery in the form of "campaign contributions" and often the outright fraud with the willing assistance of Congress (who then force government aid on the perpetrators as a reward for their misdeeds). The use of the government hammer to take what they want.

I still don't see what this has to do with the impending Liga de Beisbol Profesional Nacional set from Leaf.

 

[CubsfanP]

The hobby doesn't have the right to extort what they want from a private property owner. Magazines fall under fair use as the use of the picture become transformational when it is utilized to provide commentary. You are providing no commentary (legal issue), you're just a common thief if you take their property without permission/payment (moral/ethics issue...not that these issue impact your decision making). No different than if you walked into Target and stole a television.

But the magazine uses those photos (with Logos) to sell magazines to profit, right?

I dont know the legalities, however I don't see the difference from a common sense standpoint.

 

[Leaf]

The hobby doesn't have the right to extort what they want from a private property owner. Magazines fall under fair use as the use of the picture become transformational when it is utilized to provide commentary. You are providing no commentary (legal issue), you're just a common thief if you take their property without permission/payment (moral/ethics issue...not that these issue impact your decision making). No different than if you walked into Target and stole a television.

Are you Cardcop? The way you don't listen and go off on tangents made me wonder..

1. Not stealing. You are stealing our time with this garbage.

2. Cards are informative ... Cardtoons case clearly states stats or bios are enough.. CBS fantasy case does this too... You can ignore this and keep saying the same thing, but your intelligence and savvy on this topic are not very apparent..

3. Take some time and educate yourself before confirming you are completely unknowledgable in the topic..

BG

 

[petMonster]

Why does everyone care so much? If Leaf includes logos, I'll be happy. Why does it matter how he goes about it? Everyone complains about Topps being a monopoly then everyone screams at BG. I don't get it.

Because we have some Constitution police up in here right now. If we let BG go down the free speech path (which he's already said is not his sole or even main argument on this matter) in order to make money, then apparently the Constitution will fall apart and this whole country will turn to anarchy.

 

[TwinGnats]

I agree with most of what you said about the state of the hobby and I dislike one producer as well. Do you think it is right to just steal in the name of your hobby or even your business. If there were a situation where you would lose your store if Topps remained the only producer, just that justify theft?

Ok so here's my side, coming from over fifteen years as a store owner. In other words, straight from the front line.

While topps makes the same robotic baseball products year in year out, leaf has constantly offered different, even unique products.

Topps has become a pretty shady and lazy company.

Wether it's very vague "cover your ass" on every card language regarding "relics", using benches while trying to pass it off as bats, putting the wrong patches on cards (verified by mlb holo), making redemptions with zero intentions of fulfilling, XXXXing etopps customers, making inexcusable errors, completely flooding the products with mass redemptions only to be replaced with Josh vitters autos, inept customer service with crazy long wait times etc etc.

And yet, they get a pass.

All the while leaf has made quality products and if you get a redemption (IF!) it's generally available asap with no strings or bs attached.

And at the same time, they've released unique "outside the box" issues like the ichiro product, Pete rose legend ( $20 a box with a rose auto!!!!!), perfect game (auto a pack for $10!), just vault, pinstripe cut autos, etc.

All the while topps has made 20 plus productss of retro, prospects, retro, prospects, retro, prospects, base, retro, base. Same old same old year in year out. No variety.

My only problem with leaf is that many of their products are "one and done" boxes with a high srp. Now I understand base cards aren't in demand much but it's a lot easier to sell a $100 box with 10, 20 or 24 packs than a $100 box with five cards.

And because of that, I haven't carried as many leaf products as I'd like But maybe this will change if this big news becomes reality.

There is no reason why there shouldn't be more companies making cards, plain and simple. So I'll never understand why there's people who just hate them.



Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[SINFULONE]

The loophole will be that every photo is airbrushed, then Tempy Moore hand-sketches a logo on to each and every card.

Yay, more Tempsey Moore sketches.I can't wait!

 

[TwinGnats]

I never said we were operating in a free market system. Our country has become more socialist over time and will do until there is a revolution or people simply start participating in the Republic.

Fascinating because the modern form of Capitalism works exactly the same way through special interest lobbies, rampant bribery in the form of "campaign contributions" and often the outright fraud with the willing assistance of Congress (who then force government aid on the perpetrators as a reward for their misdeeds). The use of the government hammer to take what they want.

I still don't see what this has to do with the impending Liga de Beisbol Profesional Nacional set from Leaf.

 

[gt2590]

My only comment on this is that I believe everyone, including BG (who I personally like and helped me out with something charitable recently) and most of the Posters here are over-stating the allegedly "sad state of the hobby".

I would argue that the Hobby isn't perfect or as good as it could be with multiple licensed Manufacturers, but it hardly is so bad that drastic action must be taken to save it...

 

[TwinGnats]

These have been your stances: 1. You have no intelligence = I don't agree with you 2. You are uninformed = I don't agree with you 3. You are uneducated = I don't agree with you. I'm not even arguing so much legality, though I doubt you'd win, I'm arguing the attempt to use the government via the judicial system to steal the property of another, makes you scum.

Are you Cardcop? The way you don't listen and go off on tangents made me wonder..

1. Not stealing. You are stealing our time with this garbage.

2. Cards are informative ... Cardtoons case clearly states stats or bios are enough.. CBS fantasy case does this too... You can ignore this and keep saying the same thing, but your intelligence and savvy on this topic are not very apparent..

3. Take some time and educate yourself before confirming you are completely unknowledgable in the topic..

BG

 

[Leaf]

These have been your stances: 1. You have no intelligence = I don't agree with you 2. You are uninformed = I don't agree with you 3. You are uneducated = I don't agree with you. I'm not even arguing so much legality, though I doubt you'd win, I'm arguing the attempt to use the government via the judicial system to steal the property of another, makes you scum.

Spoken like the knucklehead you are...
BG