Vintage and hall of fame patches

mlbsalltimegreats said:

yes 2100 would be a great price especially it numbered 3/5

Click to expand...

I think what may have happened here is most of the big time ruth and patch collectors also had issues regarding this card. If the big time ruth guys were 100% sure this card was legit it would have went for alot more then 2195. That is just my oponion though.

16christensen16 said:

I think what may have happened here is most of the big time ruth and patch collectors also had issues regarding this card. If the big time ruth guys were 100% sure this card was legit it would have went for alot more then 2195. That is just my oponion though.

Click to expand...

Was thinking the same

16christensen16 said:

I think what may have happened here is most of the big time ruth and patch collectors also had issues regarding this card. If the big time ruth guys were 100% sure this card was legit it would have went for alot more then 2195. That is just my oponion though.

Click to expand...

I am now 99.9 % sure the Ruth is the real deal. I have been doing a ton of research. I admit that I really was unfamiliar on how the set was layed out. As said in that Bobby doerr question thread - http://www.freedomcardboard.com/for...p-with-2002-Leaf-Certified-Fabric-of-the-Game

It's all about the numbering. The numbering is somewhat complicated at first but once you start to understand it, it becomes a lot more clear on why we have bronze, silver and gold foil. There is more to it than that and I'll explain in a bit.

This is what I came up with:

Bronze foil = BA which = Base version. All base version have open windows and all base are jersey piece, no patches or prime pieces.

Silver foil has 3 version
DY which = Debut year, They have open windows and all have debut year writing under logo on bottom right corner. Mixed jersey and patch/prime pieces. Almost like 50/50


PS which = Position, They have cut outs of the player position he plays (like SS, 1B or OF). No writing under the logo on bottom right corner. Most are jersey with some having prime or patches.

JN which = Jersey Number, They have a jersey number cut out according to the players jersey number (So Ruth's version would have the number 3 cut out, ect ect). No Writing under the logo on bottom right corner. Most of these are prime or patch (especially the hofer's) with some having just plain jersey.

Then there is JNA which = Jersey Number auto. Not much to explain here.

Now to the gold foil

Gold Foil = IN which = Induction year, These have open window and Have The hall of fame year in writing on the bottom right corner under logo. All of these have a prime or patch in them!

Then you have INA which is induction year auto. These have 2 versions, the Hof year and the nicknames. You can tell which is which as on the bottom right corner under logo you will have either the hof year or the nickname of the player.


I ended up looking at past sales and current sales and one thing is consistent is that the Gold foils have patches or prime pieces (button hole or air hole) inside them. That Ruth is either gonna have a Air hole, button hole or patch. The 2/5 version of the gold foil Ruth has a small patch piece also which is consistent with the same material and patch as the 3/5 version. The 4/5 version has the button hole. Based on that I'm gonna guess then 5/5 version has either another button hole or air hold and the 1/5 version has a patch. Also the stitching on the 3/5 version matches the stitching on my 2001 leaf certified Ruth patch. Also all the other fake Ruth patches did not have other patch version within the same set. Not only that they all had slivers of a patch with the patch not consistent with real Ruth patches.


Also it seemed like Donruss was doing a theme here, I don't know if it was on purpose or coincedental but here it is

Bronze foil, Numbered BA, base version, had all jersey piece. So any bronze that have patches or prime are fake.
Silver foil, Numbered PS, position version, has mostly jersey pieces with patch pieces mixed in.

Silver foil, numbered DY, debut year version, is mixed patches/prime and jersey pieces.

Silver foil, numbered JN, Jersey number version, mostly have patches/prime with jersey pieces mixed in.

Gold foil, numbered IN, induction year version, all have prime or patches in them.

With everything that I have came up with, I am more confident than ever that the Maris, Ted Williams and Ruth, among others are legit.

By the way I have been out of town for work while these auctions were up and could not do the research before hand or else I would have posted my findings earlier.

I believe what you say about your research, and I'm confident the maris and williams were legit. However I'm still not sold on the ruth. All 5 need to be patch not airhole or sliver for me to be convinced. In over 10 years collecting patches having never seen another one still bothers me. I know donruss had good patches left from the jersey because they used them in 2003 timeless treasures along with 2005 prime cuts. Since they had good patches left why didn't they put patches on all 5? Like they put patches in all 21 in the 2001 product? That still bothers me. But if you are convinced then I hope you bought the card and added it to your collection!!!#

Thanks for posting your findings Tony, very insightful. I'm even more confident it's real but with a Ruth I would truly have to be 100% sure for when I do spend that kind of money on it. $2200 was a GREAT price on the card if indeed it's completely authentic.

While I am not usually a collector of HOF patches, mostly because they are out of my price range, and I have enough other collecting interests, I did pick this up at a show I was at recently. It was one of those cards that I knew I would regret not buying if I walked away from it. And I think I did pretty well on the price.

timtom said:

While I am not usually a collector of HOF patches, mostly because they are out of my price range, and I have enough other collecting interests, I did pick this up at a show I was at recently. It was one of those cards that I knew I would regret not buying if I walked away from it. And I think I did pretty well on the price.

Click to expand...

Nice Job Tim Tom!

16christensen16 said:

I believe what you say about your research, and I'm confident the maris and williams were legit. However I'm still not sold on the ruth. All 5 need to be patch not airhole or sliver for me to be convinced. In over 10 years collecting patches having never seen another one still bothers me. I know donruss had good patches left from the jersey because they used them in 2003 timeless treasures along with 2005 prime cuts. Since they had good patches left why didn't they put patches on all 5? Like they put patches in all 21 in the 2001 product? That still bothers me. But if you are convinced then I hope you bought the card and added it to your collection!!!#

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that they Went all out with Ruth Patches in the 2001 Leaf Certified set and even a couple of those has sliver patches. They only had so much Patch. Here is the 2/5 Ruth




I was able to opened up the picture a bit and the patch has the same stitching and same material as the 3/5. Also the 3/5 has more character as you can tell the patch came from one of the breaks on Ruths number 3 from the back of the jersey. As for them all having to have patches not necessarily. They just needed to be prime. The Lou Gehrig Gold foil from the set has atleast 1 air hole and maybe a button hole as I have not seen the other 4 Gehrigs. I don't know how many are patches vs Button or Air holes. I really was torn on the Ruth as I felt it was good but just wasn't not very convinced and now with what I have found. Im comfortable in purchasing one if another came up. Would love to see the 1/5 or 5/5 ofcourse. Somebody has got it.

Great hank aaron! That is a excellent part of the tomahawk, great patch

You are most likely correct on the ruth. I'm still going to stick with my own ruth rule. I'm only buying if they are from 2001 fotg or 2003 timeless treasures

timtom said:

While I am not usually a collector of HOF patches, mostly because they are out of my price range, and I have enough other collecting interests, I did pick this up at a show I was at recently. It was one of those cards that I knew I would regret not buying if I walked away from it. And I think I did pretty well on the price.

Click to expand...

Beaut!

16christensen16 said:

Great hank aaron! That is a excellent part of the tomahawk, great patch

You are most likely correct on the ruth. I'm still going to stick with my own ruth rule. I'm only buying if they are from 2001 fotg or 2003 timeless treasures

Click to expand...

That's a good rule and plus you don't need anymore damn Ruth patches


What Piece do you think was in there? The only reason I ask is because the Ruth Airholes or Button Holes sell as well as Ruth Patches. A couple of recorded sales I have of Air Holes/Button are 2200 and 2750. So to me there would be no point in changing out what was in the Card originally (Assuming its been changed at all). Remember Ruth and other Player Had Bronze versions of the leaf certified and those were specifically reserved for just jersey pieces. All the golds foil version were specifically reserved for prime/patch pieces.

mlbsalltimegreats said:

That's a good rule and plus you don't need anymore damn Ruth patches


What Piece do you think was in there? The only reason I ask is because the Ruth Airholes or Button Holes sell as well as Ruth Patches. A couple of recorded sales I have of Air Holes/Button are 2200 and 2750. So to me there would be no point in changing out what was in the Card originally (Assuming its been changed at all). Remember Ruth and other Player Had Bronze versions of the leaf certified and those were specifically reserved for just jersey pieces. All the golds foil version were specifically reserved for prime/patch pieces.

Click to expand...

I DON'T need any more ruths, BUT I might want to add another one some time I guess I don't consider air holes to be the same as patches.....in fact they don't even compare. I wouldn't ever consider even paying 1k for a air hole. Button yes! But I'm pretty sure they didn't insert buttons in these. To me all 5 cards should be patch, otherwise I don't think it is prime.

I guess to me if they wanted to put 5 patch pieces in then put 5 patch pieces, not 2 airhole and 2 patches. That seems to fishy for me

No breaks, but it IS a patch:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warren-Spah...777?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a5199ad9

16christensen16 said:

I DON'T need any more ruths, BUT I might want to add another one some time I guess I don't consider air holes to be the same as patches.....in fact they don't even compare. I wouldn't ever consider even paying 1k for a air hole. Button yes! But I'm pretty sure they didn't insert buttons in these. To me all 5 cards should be patch, otherwise I don't think it is prime.

I guess to me if they wanted to put 5 patch pieces in then put 5 patch pieces, not 2 airhole and 2 patches. That seems to fishy for me

Click to expand...

Of course I'm just clowning around as you can never have too many Ruth patches
I agree that if they are gonna use patches they should just use patches but remember that early on all these companies never labeled cards correctly thus if it said jersey it could have had a patch or prime piece of the jersey in it. The air hole/ button hole are not patches but they are prime pieces of the jersey just like the buttons and tags and rare at that. There is a pretty big fan base for them ( just ask Jeff) and although a lot of the air holes might not get as much as a patch piece, for players like Ruth and Gehrig (more so Ruth) they command big premiums.

A_Pharis said:

No breaks, but it IS a patch:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warren-Spah...777?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a5199ad9

Click to expand...

That is cheap but way too plain.

Lay off my holes, fellas.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derek-Jeter...770?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4f6dfc7a

alright who is going to drop big bucks on this beauty
what a joke!

IndyManning18 said:

Lay off my holes, fellas.

Click to expand...

i got holes too

16christensen16 said:

i got holes too

Click to expand...

Same here