Congratulations Mr Beltre

He didn't make as many as most because he was mainly a DH. He kinda got screwed.

I dont have much but these pulls

The conversations are going around in circles, but I think it comes down to a simple point: If you judge a player primarily based on on cumulative totals, Beltre is definitely a future HOFer. His hit totals, HR's, WAR etc. will all be near the top amongst 3rd basemen. If you primarily look at dominance and performance on a season by season basis, it is almost hard to even see the argument for him.

The reality is that Beltre's career totals do not reflect a player who was dominant at the plate for most of his career. They reflect a player who was great for a few years, and mediocre for most of his career, but who had the benefit of starting young and being very durable. The fact he almost never lead the league in anything, has very few impressive finishes in MVP voting, and only made 4 AS games is an accurate portrayal of the fact that for the vast majority of his career, he was not a star.

People like to bash AS games as a popularity contest, and to some degree it is, but it is also generally a decent indicator of whether a player in an elite player. While there are exceptions, for the most part the player's chosen are widely accepted as the best players in baseball (and the exceptions are usually aging superstars). To make the All-Star you basically have to be in the top 5-6 in baseball at you position. While there are definitely a couple of seasons where his end of year totals say he played at an All-Star level, for 2/3 of his time in the Majors he was not playing at that level. There was never an outcry that Beltre was getting shafted so I don't think anyone would argue that he was really deserving in many of the seasons when he was not selected (there are a couple of exceptions possibly, as mentioned I believe there were 2 seasons where he should have made the team).

To have played 18 years and not been a top 5 player at his own position for roughly 12 of them to me says he is absolutely not worthy of being a HOFer (my criteria, not the voters, who may very well vote him in, especially if he reaches 3000 hits.) This is especially true when considering that even in his best years, he was only once a truly elite hitter (one of the absolute best hitters in the game). Otherwise he had a few seasons where he was well above average, but not in the same league as guys like Cabrera, Pujols or other big names.

I think we all realize that if Beltre stays healthy and gets his 3,000 hits in 2-3 years, along with his power numbers and defense, he'll be elected into the Hall of Fame. That's an absolute, barring a failed drug test.

It won't matter if he's great enough year-by-year. Hall of Fame election is usually based on career numbers and milestones, unless a player was historically dominant for a shorter time, like Koufax, DiMaggio or Pedro.

So players like Beltre, Biggio and Sutton, who were never Hall of Fame calibur during their careers, are rewarded for their long career of excellence that allowed them to reach milestones that only a select few players have reached.

And there's nothing wrong with that. There's a reason that in 150 years of baseball, only 28 players have reached 3,000 hits. It's one of the hardest feats in baseball. Like a marathon, it's the destination, not the journey, that should be rewarded sometimes.

Sorry, but using All-Star Game appearances to judge a player's Hall-worthiness is a joke. Voting for the ASG happens around mid-season, so they don't even take into account pretty much HALF of any given player's career. They are a popularity contest for sure and most HOFers were popular when they played. But no voter in their right mind would willfully leave out a player with HOF-caliber stats based on a popularity contest that only accounted for half their career.

Austin said:

I think we all realize that if Beltre stays healthy and gets his 3,000 hits in 2-3 years, along with his power numbers and defense, he'll be elected into the Hall of Fame. That's an absolute, barring a failed drug test.

It won't matter if he's great enough year-by-year. Hall of Fame election is usually based on career numbers and milestones, unless a player was historically dominant for a shorter time, like Koufax, DiMaggio or Pedro.

So players like Beltre, Biggio and Sutton, who were never Hall of Fame calibur during their careers, are rewarded for their long career of excellence that allowed them to reach milestones that only a select few players have reached.

And there's nothing wrong with that. There's a reason that in 150 years of baseball, only 28 players have reached 3,000 hits. It's one of the hardest feats in baseball. Like a marathon, it's the destination, not the journey, that should be rewarded sometimes.

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I agree with this. If he plays this season and 2 more, he'll have a good chance at 3,000 hits assuming he stays healthy. If he reaches that he'll have around 450 HR's and who knows maybe he wins 1 more GG maybe he makes 1 more all-star team just to give him another edge. If he does what all you guys think he will do, he'll be a HOFer. He won't be a first-ballot no-brainer or anything like that - may not even get in in his first 5 years I don't think he would to be honest but he'll get in at some point. Accumulating 3,000 hits over a 21-22 year career puts you in the HOF in basically every case if you don't have all of the "wow" stuff that Jeter has, as an example, you probably won't be a first-ballot HOFer but you'll get in.

sportscardtheory said:

Sorry, but using All-Star Game appearances to judge a player's Hall-worthiness is a joke. Voting for the ASG happens around mid-season, so they don't even take into account pretty much HALF of any given player's career. They are a popularity contest for sure and most HOFers were popular when they played. But no voter in their right mind would willfully leave out a player with HOF-caliber stats based on a popularity contest that only accounted for half their career.

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Looking at his career how many seasons should he have made the AS game when he didn't? I found 2 based on season totals. Fact is for all the numbers he has accumulated, for much of his career he was not a top 5 player at the position.

Topnotchsy said:

Looking at his career how many seasons should he have made the AS game when he didn't? I found 2 based on season totals. Fact is for all the numbers he has accumulated, for much of his career he was not a top 5 player at the position.

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Only if you completely ignore his defensive prowess. That would be like calling Andrew McCutchen an average player because he doesn't do any one thing at an elite level.

Snag a copy for yourself of this future Hall-of-Famer.
You snooze; you lose. Ha.

sportscardtheory said:

Only if you completely ignore his defensive prowess. That would be like calling Andrew McCutchen an average player because he doesn't do any one thing at an elite level.

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Anyone still doubts he'll be a first ballot HOF?

Let's be honest, if he wore Yankee pinstripes he would have made many more all star teams and his popularity would be much higher. Honestly, no one would debate his worthiness for the hall of fame. Many of Jeter's "all star seasons" were NOT worthy of all star election. It's a marketing / PR / popularity contest. Beltre is the complete package of offense + defense but people seem incapable of opening their narrow minds to the fact that someone can be above average offense+defense versus one dimensional and still be HOF worthy.

At 37, if he has one more low to average year, he'll should break the following barriers: 3000 hits, 600 doubles, 1600 RBIs and 450 HRs. If he retires after this season, he may have a tough road, but still very solid numbers and a great career. He bounced around, which seems to be frowned upon. Had he stayed with the Dodgers and produced similar stats, he would probably be a shoo in for sure w/o argument. He suffers from modern day detractors who say he was never amazing like a Mays, Thomas or Trout, but 19 years of solid AS level production isn't HOF worthy to many it seems.

I think he makes it, as he should with that career.

I don't think he is a hofer, let alone first ballot, lol. Then again I dint think Biggio was a hall of famer either until his 3000 hit. I'm my opinion he needs 3000 hit just to be a hofer, even then he won't be first ballot. I don't have an official vote so who knows how it's gonna turn out.

mrmopar said:

At 37, if he has one more low to average year, he'll should break the following barriers: 3000 hits, 600 doubles, 1600 RBIs and 450 HRs. If he retires after this season, he may have a tough road, but still very solid numbers and a great career. He bounced around, which seems to be frowned upon. Had he stayed with the Dodgers and produced similar stats, he would probably be a shoo in for sure w/o argument. He suffers from modern day detractors who say he was never amazing like a Mays, Thomas or Trout, but 19 years of solid AS level production isn't HOF worthy to many it seems.

I think he makes it, as he should with that career.

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He signed a two year extension early this season, so 3,000 hits is a lock.

One card I regret selling from my adult card collecting tenure is a Beltre. 1998 Bowman's Best Atomic autograph. I bought it for $75, IIRC, when it came out and held onto it until 2012 when I was selling stuff to buy a new house. It sat on ebay for one or two cycles and I got an offer less than I wanted to take, less than I paid, I believe, but money's money. Then the buyer relisted it for about 4x what I sold it for, one of those guys who just sit on nice cards at exorbitant prices forever. As Beltre has climbed the HR list and garners Hall merit, that one burns a little, especially now that there's one listed for a grand.

As to his Hall merit, I've been a fan of milestone numbers. 3000 hits, 500 homers, 300 wins, etc. The 500 homers is out the window for a generation, sadly. But 3000 hits, there's no way to fake that. I mean, chemistry can increase your endurance and all that, but pure longevity doesn't do it. Beltre's candidacy will be hotly debated. My personal impression of him is practically blank, except for the head-touching thing. I doubt he has the "fame" credential. I can think of no highlight reel plays he's been in, but that's more me not watching enough baseball. He has never won an MVP, although 2004 was a tremendous year but suspiciously flukish. And he is rumored to have been on "the list" from 2003. He finished 3rd in 2012, but Gary Johnson finished third in 2012, too. Impressive in a vacuum but not really on the radar. As he is likely to get to 3000 hits, I'm then forced to wonder if he's greater than the sum of his parts. There are lots of guys in the Hall like that, either with some dominant seasons/MVPs but no big milestones (like Dawson), or one or more milestones without a best-player kind of rep (like Murray). Guys with both, like a Thomas or Griffey, are actually pretty rare. So if Beltre gets to 3000+450, I'd think he's likely to get in, and I wouldn't have a problem with it, especially if he does it before age 40 and isn't just kind of hanging around.

His career 88.8 WAR leads me to believe he's already headed to the HOF and once he reaches 3k hits I'll go ahead and say 1st ballot.

In fact I do not believe there are any position players who have accumulated an 80+ WAR that are not in the HOF (cheaters being the only exception).

His wait time, if any, could be heavily influenced by other players in his voting class. The writers never seem to bother with more than about 3, regardless. If he is the best of the best of his class, then he probably won't need to wait. If he is overshadowed by a few others, then he may need to wait. I don't agree with that mindset, but I also do not have a vote, so who really cares what I think on this matter.

I thinks he should be a 1st ballot hall of famer. I think people take it 2 lightly what it takes to accomplish something as amazing as getting 3000 hits. You have to be very good for a very long time. Is he not supposed to play that long to achieve that feat for fear of people calling him a compiler?? The HOF is for great players, and that's exactly what he's been for his career. The lack of an MVP doesn't bother me at all. Plenty of people have won multiple awards, and aren't HOF worthy