How do you figure?It appears that you haven't taken an objective look at Jeter's career lately.
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How do you figure?It appears that you haven't taken an objective look at Jeter's career lately.
How do you figure?
I think that's quite off base. Brock was a very good lead off hitter and base stealer who made it to the magical 3000 hit mark. Raines "only" had 2600 hits but by OBP (0.385 vs. 0.343) was a better leadoff hitter and was a better base stealer (808 SB with 85% success vs. 938 SB with 75% success). Adding in Raines' advantages in OPS+ (123 vs. 109) and WAR (69.1 vs. 45.2) along with no discernible defensive differences (both mediocre at best) and it's very reasonable to conclude Raines was the better overall player.
Nope, no jest.
Raines was a better player.
Brock was attrocious defensively.
He had a -17.1 defensive WaR for his career. Nearly double Raines' -9.5, and Brock played four less seasons.
I believe you also brought up guys "hanging around". Brock hung around until he was 40, and finished his career with two -WaR seasons and a 0 WaR season to reach that magical 3,000 hit mark.
So during his last three seasons, he actually COST his team wins.
Ask any working baseball analyst who the better player and better leadoff hitter was.
Sorry you don't like Raines, but we have ways to quantify value offensively and defensively.
How exactly did Brock change the game, by the way?
"Lou Brock, along with Maury Wills, are probably the two players most responsible for the biggest change in the game over the last fifteen years." - Tom Seaver in High-scoring Baseball (Todd Guilliams, Human Kinetics, 11/27/2012, 'Stolen Bases', Page 33) |
How did he do it? By being a badass!
"Lou Brock, along with Maury Wills, are probably the two players most responsible for the biggest change in the game over the last fifteen years." - Tom Seaver in High-scoring Baseball (Todd Guilliams, Human Kinetics, 11/27/2012, 'Stolen Bases', Page 33)
Didn't realize he played before...
Billy Hamilton - 914
Ty Cobb - 897
Arlie Latham - 742
Eddie Collins - 741
Max Carey - 738
And Honus Wagner - 723
You learn something new every day.
Yes he had off years in 10, and 14. 13 he only played 17 games.Look at it objectively and you'll see only one strong season from 2007 - 2014. Throw out one of those due to injury and you're still at > 2 off years. Looks like Jr had one more iffy season than Jeter. One.
More like:Yes he had off years in 10, and 14. 13 he only played 17 games.
Throw in a couple iffy years in his prime, and "Jeter, in his career, really only had a couple of off years." isn't close to true. He was still great and all, but without the postseason, he's pretty similar to Lou Whitaker with a little better peak.