2008 Razor Metal Gold Auto vs. 2010 Pro Debut Gold Non-Auto

[sportscardtheory]

2006 Just Evan Longoria auto http://cgi.ebay.com/EVAN-LONGORIA-AUTO- ... 45efb9f357

2007 Bowman Chrome Draft Evan Longoria http://cgi.ebay.com/EVAN-LONGORIA-2007- ... 58851f1a60

Crazy, why is this 2007 Bowman Major League baseball product getting killed by the 2006 Just auto??? Isn't Just a company that sucks and Bowman Chrome is king???

I believe the initial question was a "Gold" Razor Auto versus a "Gold" Topps Debut...correct? If my understanding of JP's initial post was correct & JP was trying to come up with something that had the same production number across the board between Razor & Topps then I think a comparison such as the following will benefit this discussion moreso than your example above:


08 Tri-Star E.Longoria signa-cut Auto "#d/25"
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-TRISTAR-SIGNA- ... 518efccb7a

08 Topps Chrome E.Longoria Red Refractor "#d/25"
http://cgi.ebay.com/Evan-Longoria-08-To ... 4838c1abb5

or even possibly an 08 B.Chrome Gold Refractor which has a bit more produced "#d/50"
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-Evan-Longoria- ... 27adc0e393



I think this comparison is a better representation of what JP was trying to compare when he wrote: "Assuming the Golds are #d to 50 or less (no official word yet from Topps), which card would you rather own?" as Tri-Star's SV is relevant & comparable to that of Razor's & going by these serial #'d parallel's we can get a better example of what JP was trying to relay with his initial question/post....but then again, I may have misinterpretted JP? Either way, no matter what product you're using, it is not a fair comparison when using a base auto to ANY base non-auto that is several year's after the autographs release (so you're example is slightly fudged IMO & doesn't go with the initial question)..... Just to let you know, the Tri-Star was the only #d/25 auto I found in the completed Ebay auction's or I would've added something else to the comparison (I just wanted to be clear on this)!
Take care & great discussion subject Jaypers!

I don't believe your example represents the question well. The 2008 Razor autos are the players' first ever autos and pre-date the 2010 Topps releases by 2 full seasons. Plus the card you used is a cut-auto of an active player, garbage to most people.

 

[rico08]

I don't believe your example represents the question well. The 2008 Razor autos are the players' first ever autos and pre-date the 2010 Topps releases by 2 full seasons. Plus the card you used is a cut-auto of an active player, garbage to most people.

You compared an autographed Just card to a Bowman Chrome Futures Game base card for which there were thousands printed. Your example warped the question.

 

[Razor]

Ill trade PRO DEBUT gold parallels for Razor metal auto Golds of my exclusive players.

Please PM if you wish to trade. Ill will go on the market and buy the unsigned Topps cards to trade you.

If you believe what you are saying here (that an unsigned /25 will be worth more than razor metal gold), take advantage of me please.

Thanks.. BG

 

[Razor]

2006 Just Evan Longoria auto http://cgi.ebay.com/EVAN-LONGORIA-AUTO- ... 45efb9f357

2007 Bowman Chrome Draft Evan Longoria http://cgi.ebay.com/EVAN-LONGORIA-2007- ... 58851f1a60

Crazy, why is this 2007 Bowman Major League baseball product getting killed by the 2006 Just auto??? Isn't Just a company that sucks and Bowman Chrome is king???

I believe the initial question was a "Gold" Razor Auto versus a "Gold" Topps Debut...correct? If my understanding of JP's initial post was correct & JP was trying to come up with something that had the same production number across the board between Razor & Topps then I think a comparison such as the following will benefit this discussion moreso than your example above:


08 Tri-Star E.Longoria signa-cut Auto "#d/25"
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-TRISTAR-SIGNA- ... 518efccb7a

08 Topps Chrome E.Longoria Red Refractor "#d/25"
http://cgi.ebay.com/Evan-Longoria-08-To ... 4838c1abb5

or even possibly an 08 B.Chrome Gold Refractor which has a bit more produced "#d/50"
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-Evan-Longoria- ... 27adc0e393



I think this comparison is a better representation of what JP was trying to compare when he wrote: "Assuming the Golds are #d to 50 or less (no official word yet from Topps), which card would you rather own?" as Tri-Star's SV is relevant & comparable to that of Razor's & going by these serial #'d parallel's we can get a better example of what JP was trying to relay with his initial question/post....but then again, I may have misinterpretted JP? Either way, no matter what product you're using, it is not a fair comparison when using a base auto to ANY base non-auto that is several year's after the autographs release (so you're example is slightly fudged IMO & doesn't go with the initial question)..... Just to let you know, the Tri-Star was the only #d/25 auto I found in the completed Ebay auction's or I would've added something else to the comparison (I just wanted to be clear on this)!
Take care & great discussion subject Jaypers!

Bad example.
You are using MLB release Longorias in comparison.
Compare Razor to MiLB and results will not be close.
BG

 

[sportscardtheory]

At least I showed an example. You couldn't show us one example... not ONE. Why don't you prove it to us? Show us where a 3rd year un-autographed Minor League card has EVER been worth more than an auto with the same print-run from 3 years earlier. You couldn't even do it with Major League rookie cards.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desirable

You're looking at price, I'm looking at desirability. One does not necessitate the other.

Here's my logic: Search "razor gold au*" on eBay. I count a whopping 11 completed Razor Metal gold auctions with seven sales. Of those seven sales, five are from BIN/BO and two are from auctions.

Now look at the current auction style listings. Any? Three auctions with RIDICULOUS starting bids and the rest are EXTREMELY high BIN's. These people holding rare Razor cards are fishing for offers. Desperately. 38 copies, 29 copies: no one wanted these to begin with.

No one is bidding, no one cares. The cards are not desirable.

I'm not buying third year minor league cards OR Razor because they BOTH stink.

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

 

[sportscardtheory]

Ill trade PRO DEBUT gold parallels for Razor metal auto Golds of my exclusive players.

Please PM if you wish to trade. Ill will go on the market and buy the unsigned Topps cards to trade you.

If you believe what you are saying here (that an unsigned /25 will be worth more than razor metal gold), take advantage of me please.

Thanks.. BG

Hell, even I would do that. lol

 

[rico08]

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

There are no semantics if you properly address the question. If the question was "which would sell for more" I'd pick the autograph every day.

You wanted examples. I couldn't find one completed or current eBay listing that gave me any confidence that people care about Razor. It is not desirable on the secondary market.

 

[HoustonTeams4Me]

I don't believe your example represents the question well. The 2008 Razor autos are the players' first ever autos and pre-date the 2010 Topps releases by 2 full seasons. Plus the card you used is a cut-auto of an active player, garbage to most people.

Then we're at a stale-mate here because your example was not representative of the question either. Either way these are just opinion's, which my opinion is that a Gold/Gold Refractor Topps Debut will garner the most hobby interest until a BCD/BC parallel comes about! Just as I had said early on between the UD & Razor auto's, the brand name recognition carries the product in term's of stability & desirability; and in the time of demand (for Matusz, which is the only real comparison we've had the opportunity of witnessing) the "name-brand" CRUSHED that of the competitor, being Razor. Even taking into account Razor was "On-Card" & more scarce (in most example's when comparing them, ALOT MORE SCARCE), the Upperdeck cut-out windowed index card auto's outsold Razor by a supreme margin...there was NO competition! I have a strong belief this will be the case when we begin seeing these 2010 Topps Debut parallel's of these Razor exclusive player's, in the beginning they'll be comparable but once we see a hot streak from an "exclusive" the Topps parallel's will explode past that of the Razor brand auto's (in term's of ROI).

 

[NYCrulesU]

At least I showed an example. You couldn't show us one example... not ONE. Why don't you prove it to us? Show us where a 3rd year un-autographed Minor League card has EVER been worth more than an auto with the same print-run from 3 years earlier. You couldn't even do it with Major League rookie cards.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desirable

You're looking at price, I'm looking at desirability. One does not necessitate the other.

Here's my logic: Search "razor gold au*" on eBay. I count a whopping 11 completed Razor Metal gold auctions with seven sales. Of those seven sales, five are from BIN/BO and two are from auctions.

Now look at the current auction style listings. Any? Three auctions with RIDICULOUS starting bids and the rest are EXTREMELY high BIN's. These people holding rare Razor cards are fishing for offers. Desperately. 38 copies, 29 copies: no one wanted these to begin with.

No one is bidding, no one cares. The cards are not desirable.

I'm not buying third year minor league cards OR Razor because they BOTH stink.

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

You keep making comparisons that simply do not work.

Look. Topps better than Razor. Score better than Razor. Donruss Elite better than Razor. Just better than Razor. Tri-Star better than Razor. You want to make an accurate comparison? Try using Scoreboard. SB and Razor are about equal as far as popularity goes.

 

[Wes]

It's comical to think that a 2010 unautographed parallel that isn't Bowman Chrome would outsell a 2008 AUTOGRAPHED gold.

 

[sportscardtheory]

I don't believe your example represents the question well. The 2008 Razor autos are the players' first ever autos and pre-date the 2010 Topps releases by 2 full seasons. Plus the card you used is a cut-auto of an active player, garbage to most people.

Then we're at a stale-mate here because your example was not representative of the question either. Either way these are just opinion's, which my opinion is that a Gold/Gold Refractor Topps Debut will garner the most hobby interest until a BCD/BC parallel comes about! Just as I had said early on between the UD & Razor auto's, the brand name recognition carries the product in term's of stability & desirability; and in the time of demand (for Matusz, which is the only real comparison we've had the opportunity of witnessing) the "name-brand" CRUSHED that of the competitor, being Razor. Even taking into account Razor was "On-Card" & more scarce (in most example's when comparing them, ALOT MORE SCARCE), the Upperdeck cut-out windowed index card auto's outsold Razor by a supreme margin...there was NO competition! I have a strong belief this will be the case when we begin seeing these 2010 Topps Debut parallel's of these Razor exclusive player's, in the beginning they'll be comparable but once we see a hot streak from an "exclusive" the Topps parallel's will explode past that of the Razor brand auto's.

Why are you comparing Matusz autos to Matusz autos? That's not at all what this discussion is about. I don't even buy Razor products and I would rather have the 2008 Razor short-print autos. Like Brian said, I would trade un-autographed 2010 Topps Pro Debuts for them all day long... and I'm not even a Razor "fan".

 

[sportscardtheory]

At least I showed an example. You couldn't show us one example... not ONE. Why don't you prove it to us? Show us where a 3rd year un-autographed Minor League card has EVER been worth more than an auto with the same print-run from 3 years earlier. You couldn't even do it with Major League rookie cards.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desirable

You're looking at price, I'm looking at desirability. One does not necessitate the other.

Here's my logic: Search "razor gold au*" on eBay. I count a whopping 11 completed Razor Metal gold auctions with seven sales. Of those seven sales, five are from BIN/BO and two are from auctions.

Now look at the current auction style listings. Any? Three auctions with RIDICULOUS starting bids and the rest are EXTREMELY high BIN's. These people holding rare Razor cards are fishing for offers. Desperately. 38 copies, 29 copies: no one wanted these to begin with.

No one is bidding, no one cares. The cards are not desirable.

I'm not buying third year minor league cards OR Razor because they BOTH stink.

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

You keep making comparisons that simply do not work.

Look. Topps better than Razor. Score better than Razor. Donruss Elite better than Razor. Just better than Razor. Tri-Star better than Razor. You want to make an accurate comparison? Try using Scoreboard. SB and Razor are about equal as far as popularity goes.

You are comparing companies, that's not what is happening here. We are comparing first year autos to 3rd year un-autographed cards.

 

[sportscardtheory]

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

There are no semantics if you properly address the question. If the question was "which would sell for more" I'd pick the autograph every day.

You wanted examples. I couldn't find one completed or current eBay listing that gave me any confidence that people care about Razor. It is not desirable on the secondary market.

This is COMPLETELY a semantics game you are playing. "Desirable" can also take into account price realized. If you "desire" Topps over Razor in such a militant way, I will trade you a stack of 102 1986 Topps Ozzie Guillen RCs for 102 Razor autos you can find me.

 

[Razor]

You keep making comparisons that simply do not work.

Look. Topps better than Razor. Score better than Razor. Donruss Elite better than Razor. Just better than Razor. Tri-Star better than Razor. You want to make an accurate comparison? Try using Scoreboard. SB and Razor are about equal as far as popularity goes.

If you don't like Razor, don't buy it. We know your biased opinion by now, move on.
I have emails from TONS of people who quit buying UD or Topps products this year because they got punished every time they opened the products.

If you are so sure my product sucks, take me up on my trade offer.
Money where your MOUTH is?
BG

 

[rico08]

This is COMPLETELY a semantics game you are playing. "Desirable" can also take into account price realized. If you "desire" Topps over Razor in such a militant way, I will trade you a stack of 102 1986 Topps Ozzie Guillen RCs for 102 Razor autos you can find me.

 

[Razor]

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

There are no semantics if you properly address the question. If the question was "which would sell for more" I'd pick the autograph every day.

You wanted examples. I couldn't find one completed or current eBay listing that gave me any confidence that people care about Razor. It is not desirable on the secondary market.

You are missing the point. If one of thes eguys turns into a SUPERSTAR (Jeter, Pujols, AROD, etc), GOLD METAL autos wills ell for a lot just as early autos of those guys sell strong.

Its all the player.
If the player fails, the card fails.
If the player rocks, the card will be in demand.
BG

 

[kentuckyderby]

Razor gold Odorizzi auto (I'm guessing about 25 made) OR a 08 BDP orange non auto Odorizzi (25 made)????


The bottom line is that this thread can go on and on and on with people finding isolated auctions to fit their point.
I would imagine most people would want an auto over a non auto but then again sometimes crazy outside factors jack up prices of non autos (set collectors, adding to PC, etc)

Keep in mind that many race tracks have madatory payouts on pick 6 and pick 9 for the calendar year and the pick 6 and pick 9 pools cannot carry over to 2010 so Dec 31st is a great day to hit the racetrack (4out of 6 or 5 out of 6 might pay off nicely)

 

[Razor]

Razor gold Odorizzi auto (I'm guessing about 25 made) OR a 08 BDP orange non auto Odorizzi (25 made)????


The bottom line is that this thread can go on and on and on with people finding isolated auctions to fit their point.
I would imagine most people would want an auto over a non auto but then again sometimes crazy outside factors jack up prices of non autos (set collectors, adding to PC, etc)

Keep in mind that many race tracks have madatory payouts on pick 6 and pick 9 for the calendar year and the pick 6 and pick 9 pools cannot carry over to 2010 so Dec 31st is a great day to hit the racetrack (4out of 6 or 5 out of 6 might pay off nicely)

We are NOT talking about MLB Bowman.
We are talking minor league.
BG

 

[rico08]

When the Razor guy shows up to defend his product and make trades the thread is officially declared deceased.

 

[sportscardtheory]

When the Razor guy shows up to defend his product and make trades the thread is officially declared deceased.

At least he's here. Where's Topps... probably finding a way to put WBC cards into 2010 products even though it's not for another 4 years. lol Hey, I like Topps products, I like anything that is collectible... but I'm not naive enough to put too much value in something of theirs when there is an earlier autographed option. Their Minor League products will still just be MInor League products. I do think it will be cool if they use the same design as their MLB product.