Adam Wainwright meet Tommy John

[PujolsCollector]

Maybe breast reduction surgery while hes at it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
for those out of the know heres the post im refering to viewtopic.php?f=2&t=122330&start=0&hilit=wainwright+wainwright+breast

 

[ballerskrip]

I agree, mechanics all the way

did it to himself

ummm, what do you see in those pictures shows you bad mechanics? There is absolutely NOTHING you can show me from those pictures that are a pre-cursor to injury. More likely, it is because he has thrown the highest % of breaking balls of any player in baseball last year. The average was 21% breaking balls. Wainright was at 47% if my memory serves me right.

skrip

 

[thefasterblade]

INVERTED W

I agree, mechanics all the way

did it to himself

ummm, what do you see in those pictures shows you bad mechanics? There is absolutely NOTHING you can show me from those pictures that are a pre-cursor to injury. More likely, it is because he has thrown the highest % of breaking balls of any player in baseball last year. The average was 21% breaking balls. Wainright was at 47% if my memory serves me right.

skrip

 

[ballerskrip]

Yeah, and a TON of people believe in the inverted W. Many of the best pitchings coaches in the world believe in it and teach it.

skrip

 

[blitzerlover]

Yeah, and a TON of people believe in the inverted W. Many of the best pitchings coaches in the world believe in it and teach it.

skrip

Good read on the inverted w

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Bas ... rtedW.html

 

[ballerskrip]

Yeah, and a TON of people believe in the inverted W. Many of the best pitchings coaches in the world believe in it and teach it.

skrip

Good read on the inverted w

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Bas ... rtedW.html

I have that article and have found it very interesting to read. I think that overemphasizing the inverted W can definitely be a problem. But he shows Maddux and Randy Johnson who have 98% of the inverted W working for them. VERY close to the real thing. Ehhh, some mechanics work for some and not others. I find it very difficult to stereotype .

skrip

 

[jeff550]

Maybe the Cardinals will take Jason Marquis from us

 

[Mozzie22]

Im sure 90% of all the players in that division....... Red, Brewers, Cubs etc. thought exactly what Gomes said, its baseball, its a war!

Bottom line.... Adam did it to himself!!! ......he has himself to blame if anyone is to blame. Blowing your arm out in first week of ST, throwing BP ?? OK were not talking 55 year old coach who makes $75K a year tossing BP, were talking a multi million dollar #1 starter throwing BP, not too bright of St.L...
(Bad offseason conditioning, starting ST too strong, not stretching before letting it loose, or just bad luck (mechanics, not following through because of the "L" screen, throwing sliders in BP) etc.

PS I wouldnt throw at Gomes, #1 he is an animal, and #2 its also uncalled for, he said nothing wrong at all. I said the same thing when I read the headline, Im a Giants fan and anytime you get to face a replacement over a good pitcher like Adam, its a huge advantage any opponent would LOVE! Reds, Cubs fans should be happy as hell! .......to a point




You need to seriously lay off the weed. What in the hell do you mean he did it to himself? He was throwing a supervised side session and his mechanics are fine. Gomes is a tool and even if you think one thing you sure as hell don't verbalize it if you are a professional. I hope he gets hit in the nuts by a fastball. I normally agree with most of your posts but you are way, way out in left field with this one.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

Yeah, and a TON of people believe in the inverted W. Many of the best pitchings coaches in the world believe in it and teach it.

skrip

And a ton of people don't. The bottom line is no one truly knows what the best mechanics are and anyone who says they do needs to show some scientific proof for their conclusions. Plenty of guys with the inverted W never have issues and plenty of guys that don't have shredded their arms. If there is a study out there that shows guys with the inverted W have TJ at a statistically meaningful rate higher than guys without it, I would be interested in reading it. It might end up the inverted W is truly the kiss of death but I'm not there.

Until doctors/scientists/trainers/whoever can do a detailed bio-mechanical breakdown of how much load each step of a delivery puts on ligaments, tendons, muscles, and bones, people will be left to speculate on "proper" mechanics. Several teams have started down this path but it will probably be several years before the data set reaches an acceptable sample size.

The act of throwing a 5 ounce ball 90+ miles per hour is extremely unnatural for the human body and my opinion is even guys who do in fact have "proper" mechanics will still blow out their arms. We can just hope it is minimized as much as possible.

 

[Ryan The Orange]

Mechanics are great. They mean everything.

Greatest mechanics in the world were given to Mark Prior and Stephen Strasburg.

Tommy John.

I don't think mechanics mean everything when it comes to injury. Sure, they mean something, but I think it has to do with breaking balls at young ages and a higher velocity more often.

You look at guys like Warren Spahn and Greg Maddux who didn't throw as hard and they last longer. And both didn't rely on the curveball on every two strike count.

I could be completely wrong I guess.

 

[thefasterblade]

No one ever said Strasburg had flawless mechanics.

 

[Ryan The Orange]

No one ever said Strasburg had flawless mechanics.

I could have sworn that the commentators were raving about his mechanics in his debut and minor league appearances. I could be mistaken.

 

[mwashuc06]

I saw his AAA debut and said right after his start "Mark Prior 2.0"

 

[RCRX]

No one ever said Strasburg had flawless mechanics.

I could have sworn that the commentators were raving about his mechanics in his debut and minor league appearances. I could be mistaken.

I did to hear that he had good mechanics..a "smooth delivery" is what I heard more than once. No matter the delivery, its a miracle every guys arm doesnt snap off..throwing the ball 100 times every 5 nites in a completely unatural motion.

 

[darkman]

I remember reading a article at the beginning of last year on project prospect where the guys that run that site said Strasburg had bad mechanics and a lot of people getting pissed off at them and saying they don't know what they were talking about.... them dudes hit it right on the head. Those were the only guys i remember ever saying anything about Strasburgs mechanics...everyone else was drinking the kool aid.

 

[James52411]

I think the biggest problem is that modern weight training has made most hitters throughout the lineup far more of a power threat than back in the old days. As a result, pitchers have to give max effort on more pitches throughout the lineup.

 

[fkw]

Im sure 90% of all the players in that division....... Red, Brewers, Cubs etc. thought exactly what Gomes said, its baseball, its a war!

Bottom line.... Adam did it to himself!!! ......he has himself to blame if anyone is to blame. Blowing your arm out in first week of ST, throwing BP ?? OK were not talking 55 year old coach who makes $75K a year tossing BP, were talking a multi million dollar #1 starter throwing BP, not too bright of St.L...
(Bad offseason conditioning, starting ST too strong, not stretching before letting it loose, or just bad luck (mechanics, not following through because of the "L" screen, throwing sliders in BP) etc.

PS I wouldnt throw at Gomes, #1 he is an animal, and #2 its also uncalled for, he said nothing wrong at all. I said the same thing when I read the headline, Im a Giants fan and anytime you get to face a replacement over a good pitcher like Adam, its a huge advantage any opponent would LOVE! Reds, Cubs fans should be happy as hell! .......to a point




You need to seriously lay off the weed. What in the hell do you mean he did it to himself? He was throwing a supervised side session and his mechanics are fine. Gomes is a tool and even if you think one thing you sure as hell don't verbalize it if you are a professional. I hope he gets hit in the nuts by a fastball. I normally agree with most of your posts but you are way, way out in left field with this one.

Weed made me said that ya right. good one :lol:
(dont cross the line now )

from what I read he was throwing BP (live batters) when he was injured, and its been what a week (or 2) since Spring Training started. And its an elbow injury, not a rotator cuff or plain old sore arm. elbow = bad mechanics or at best too many sliders/curves or stupid pitchers who try to turn it over (screwball). Id say bad mechanics for a season ending injury this early in 2011 (if it is one). Its not like he blew his up on the 123 pitch in a game in September.
Google pics, and its confirmed that he has the characteristics of a pitcher who should have arm troubles (especially a power pitcher who throws a hard curve) the pics are easy to see and find. Hes had the same problems for at least 7 years now, it was bound to happen, but usually in the heat of a real game going 100% all out.
If you go to the gym, try the peckdeck (stacked) with your elbow bent more than 90 deg and not touching the pad, then try it with your arm more straight with the pad supporting your arm. Thats the basic difference in strain on the inside of the elbow.

Stick up for your guy, I understand thats.... I do it for Bonds, etc. ALL DAY LONG
But unless you actually throw 90-95 w/ a hard curve, slider, youve never felt the strain on the inside of the elbow those pitches cause especially when you dont bring the arm straight back and instead bring the elbow higher than shoulder while the hand is below (inverted W). I also saw pics where Adam recoils after some pitches (ie Koufax) and falls off the mound (ie Gibson), but Im not going to point a finger at those, because they dont lead to elbow injuries. The same injury often occurs from too many sliders from 3/4 arm slot or inverted W curveballs from over the top (Adam) are both high risk for elbow problems.

I pitched, I never had elbow problems, I had lower back problems, and forearm tightness and basic tired arm problems at end of season (leg conditioning). At 17 years old I threw harder than Wainwright ever has. My career ended with a (non pitching) wrist injury followed by a knee injury.

Jonny Gomes singing "Wainwright's gone" in his own clubhouse is a big deal??? WTF it looks like Gomes may have it right, whats wrong with that, nothing! Dont be sore St.L fans, injuries are a part of baseball. Another will come along soon, might be NY, might be SF, but for now its St.L, and its a big deal to them, and a big break for their rivals, period. (and my team is a rival in my eyes..SF)
I dont feel sorry for him/St.L at all (mainly cause I dont like St.L or LaRussa), he had warning in 2004 that this day was going to happen eventually..... yet never changed his mechanics.

For what its worth, if this happened to Cain or Lincecum Id be bent too... so can see your point. but dont overlook the fact that Adam and the Cardinals had 7 years of warning...

 

[craiger122003]

At 17 years old I threw harder than Wainwright ever has. My career ended with a (non pitching) wrist injury followed by a knee injury.

WHAT?? ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Mozzie22]

Im sure 90% of all the players in that division....... Red, Brewers, Cubs etc. thought exactly what Gomes said, its baseball, its a war!

Bottom line.... Adam did it to himself!!! ......he has himself to blame if anyone is to blame. Blowing your arm out in first week of ST, throwing BP ?? OK were not talking 55 year old coach who makes $75K a year tossing BP, were talking a multi million dollar #1 starter throwing BP, not too bright of St.L...
(Bad offseason conditioning, starting ST too strong, not stretching before letting it loose, or just bad luck (mechanics, not following through because of the "L" screen, throwing sliders in BP) etc.

PS I wouldnt throw at Gomes, #1 he is an animal, and #2 its also uncalled for, he said nothing wrong at all. I said the same thing when I read the headline, Im a Giants fan and anytime you get to face a replacement over a good pitcher like Adam, its a huge advantage any opponent would LOVE! Reds, Cubs fans should be happy as hell! .......to a point




You need to seriously lay off the weed. What in the hell do you mean he did it to himself? He was throwing a supervised side session and his mechanics are fine. Gomes is a tool and even if you think one thing you sure as hell don't verbalize it if you are a professional. I hope he gets hit in the nuts by a fastball. I normally agree with most of your posts but you are way, way out in left field with this one.

Weed made me said that ya right. good one :lol:
(dont cross the line now )

from what I read he was throwing BP (live batters) when he was injured, and its been what a week (or 2) since Spring Training started. And its an elbow injury, not a rotator cuff or plain old sore arm. elbow = bad mechanics or at best too many sliders/curves or stupid pitchers who try to turn it over (screwball). Id say bad mechanics for a season ending injury this early in 2011 (if it is one). Its not like he blew his up on the 123 pitch in a game in September.
Google pics, and its confirmed that he has the characteristics of a pitcher who should have arm troubles (especially a power pitcher who throws a hard curve) the pics are easy to see and find. Hes had the same problems for at least 7 years now, it was bound to happen, but usually in the heat of a real game going 100% all out.
If you go to the gym, try the peckdeck (stacked) with your elbow bent more than 90 deg and not touching the pad, then try it with your arm more straight with the pad supporting your arm. Thats the basic difference in strain on the inside of the elbow.

Stick up for your guy, I understand thats.... I do it for Bonds, etc. ALL DAY LONG
But unless you actually throw 90-95 w/ a hard curve, slider, youve never felt the strain on the inside of the elbow those pitches cause especially when you dont bring the arm straight back and instead bring the elbow higher than shoulder while the hand is below (inverted W). I also saw pics where Adam recoils after some pitches (ie Koufax) and falls off the mound (ie Gibson), but Im not going to point a finger at those, because they dont lead to elbow injuries. The same injury often occurs from too many sliders from 3/4 arm slot or inverted W curveballs from over the top (Adam) are both high risk for elbow problems.

I pitched, I never had elbow problems, I had lower back problems, and forearm tightness and basic tired arm problems at end of season (leg conditioning). At 17 years old I threw harder than Wainwright ever has. My career ended with a (non pitching) wrist injury followed by a knee injury.

Jonny Gomes singing "Wainwright's gone" in his own clubhouse is a big deal??? WTF it looks like Gomes may have it right, whats wrong with that, nothing! Dont be sore St.L fans, injuries are a part of baseball. Another will come along soon, might be NY, might be SF, but for now its St.L, and its a big deal to them, and a big break for their rivals, period. (and my team is a rival in my eyes..SF)
I dont feel sorry for him/St.L at all (mainly cause I dont like St.L or LaRussa), he had warning in 2004 that this day was going to happen eventually..... yet never changed his mechanics.

For what its worth, if this happened to Cain or Lincecum Id be bent too... so can see your point. but dont overlook the fact that Adam and the Cardinals had 7 years of warning...

I didn’t realize you were such a world class pitcher!!! Wow that changes everything now. Why didn’t you just say that from the beginning and you could have just ended this discussion before it got started? And to throw over 100 m.p.h at 17, just think about the H.O.F career that was lost to the baseball world, sad.

What killed Wainwright wasn’t his mechanics it is the fact he throws so many curve balls. Anyone that throws that many curves is going to end up with issues and it makes no difference when it goes because it just happens.

There is no excuse for what Gomes did. If he is happy or excited that a pitcher suffered a terrible injury and he won’t have to face him anymore that is one thing but to come into a clubhouse singing about it is tasteless. You should just stop defending him on this because it just makes you look terrible.

 

[jmill88]

Im sure 90% of all the players in that division....... Red, Brewers, Cubs etc. thought exactly what Gomes said, its baseball, its a war!

Bottom line.... Adam did it to himself!!! ......he has himself to blame if anyone is to blame. Blowing your arm out in first week of ST, throwing BP ?? OK were not talking 55 year old coach who makes $75K a year tossing BP, were talking a multi million dollar #1 starter throwing BP, not too bright of St.L...
(Bad offseason conditioning, starting ST too strong, not stretching before letting it loose, or just bad luck (mechanics, not following through because of the "L" screen, throwing sliders in BP) etc.

PS I wouldnt throw at Gomes, #1 he is an animal, and #2 its also uncalled for, he said nothing wrong at all. I said the same thing when I read the headline, Im a Giants fan and anytime you get to face a replacement over a good pitcher like Adam, its a huge advantage any opponent would LOVE! Reds, Cubs fans should be happy as hell! .......to a point




You need to seriously lay off the weed. What in the hell do you mean he did it to himself? He was throwing a supervised side session and his mechanics are fine. Gomes is a tool and even if you think one thing you sure as hell don't verbalize it if you are a professional. I hope he gets hit in the nuts by a fastball. I normally agree with most of your posts but you are way, way out in left field with this one.

Weed made me said that ya right. good one :lol:
(dont cross the line now )

from what I read he was throwing BP (live batters) when he was injured, and its been what a week (or 2) since Spring Training started. And its an elbow injury, not a rotator cuff or plain old sore arm. elbow = bad mechanics or at best too many sliders/curves or stupid pitchers who try to turn it over (screwball). Id say bad mechanics for a season ending injury this early in 2011 (if it is one). Its not like he blew his up on the 123 pitch in a game in September.
Google pics, and its confirmed that he has the characteristics of a pitcher who should have arm troubles (especially a power pitcher who throws a hard curve) the pics are easy to see and find. Hes had the same problems for at least 7 years now, it was bound to happen, but usually in the heat of a real game going 100% all out.
If you go to the gym, try the peckdeck (stacked) with your elbow bent more than 90 deg and not touching the pad, then try it with your arm more straight with the pad supporting your arm. Thats the basic difference in strain on the inside of the elbow.

Stick up for your guy, I understand thats.... I do it for Bonds, etc. ALL DAY LONG
But unless you actually throw 90-95 w/ a hard curve, slider, youve never felt the strain on the inside of the elbow those pitches cause especially when you dont bring the arm straight back and instead bring the elbow higher than shoulder while the hand is below (inverted W). I also saw pics where Adam recoils after some pitches (ie Koufax) and falls off the mound (ie Gibson), but Im not going to point a finger at those, because they dont lead to elbow injuries. The same injury often occurs from too many sliders from 3/4 arm slot or inverted W curveballs from over the top (Adam) are both high risk for elbow problems.

I pitched, I never had elbow problems, I had lower back problems, and forearm tightness and basic tired arm problems at end of season (leg conditioning). At 17 years old I threw harder than Wainwright ever has. My career ended with a (non pitching) wrist injury followed by a knee injury.

Jonny Gomes singing "Wainwright's gone" in his own clubhouse is a big deal??? WTF it looks like Gomes may have it right, whats wrong with that, nothing! Dont be sore St.L fans, injuries are a part of baseball. Another will come along soon, might be NY, might be SF, but for now its St.L, and its a big deal to them, and a big break for their rivals, period. (and my team is a rival in my eyes..SF)
I dont feel sorry for him/St.L at all (mainly cause I dont like St.L or LaRussa), he had warning in 2004 that this day was going to happen eventually..... yet never changed his mechanics.

For what its worth, if this happened to Cain or Lincecum Id be bent too... so can see your point. but dont overlook the fact that Adam and the Cardinals had 7 years of warning...

I didn’t realize you were such a world class pitcher!!! Wow that changes everything now. Why didn’t you just say that from the beginning and you could have just ended this discussion before it got started? And to throw over 100 m.p.h at 17, just think about the H.O.F career that was lost to the baseball world, sad.

What killed Wainwright wasn’t his mechanics it is the fact he throws so many curve balls. Anyone that throws that many curves is going to end up with issues and it makes no difference when it goes because it just happens.

There is no excuse for what Gomes did. If he is happy or excited that a pitcher suffered a terrible injury and he won’t have to face him anymore that is one thing but to come into a clubhouse singing about it is tasteless. You should just stop defending him on this because it just makes you look terrible.

+1
I didnt want to say it, but I will second it.