Because you weren't done klling the value of Metal/Valiant..

[ArtVandelay]

[quote="Bob Loblaw":326naq74]

Well then there you have it no surprises here although I kinda agree with Jeff here. 2008 is still fresh for alot of us. If he doesnt add products based on these two all should be ok.

Apologies to you, Jeff and anyone else who was expecting a thread in which he announced it in bold, 80-point font.

God knows he knows how to make an announcement. It's no surprise that this came as a surprise to almost all of us.

Have you bought any of his products ever?

Yes, Jeff has bought my products to be fair.
BG

p.s.- Now, on valiant... he did buy some and if I remember right he was complaining even before he opened it!!!!!

I bought a box of Leaf Metal Draft. I won a second box, Ironically, in AIC's draw. So I got 2 for $90. I didn't get $90 value out of both boxes. I've bought cards on the secondary market.

I bought a box of Valiant. Got it, opened it. Didn't like it. At all. That's when I started "complaining" about the 2nd box I had already purchased before the first box in AIC's live break. My complaints were a criticism of the product and the fact that I didn't like it. Now, AIC couldn't be more of a stand up guy, he offered me a refund without me even asking. But, because I knew if I did get a refund, I'd get the 1/1 Ichiro in my slot. So, I took the break, and from what I saw in the break, I like the stuff even less than I did on my own break. I won't buy any more Valiant boxes at $100 per.

HOwever, again, Ive bought cards on the secondary market.[/quote:326naq74]

Pick one side of your mouth to talk out of!
You bought a box - 'didnt like it at all'. (ie You could not flip all your cards instantaneously for ROI)
Yet, you are buying still buying singles? Why, you hate the product!

 

[Leaf]

Jeff-
If you think that /25 purple is going to "kill" these sets, I think you should star collecting "Precious Moments", "Hummels" or "Hallmark Ornaments"...
This hobby just isnt for you...

The future of these sets squarely rests on the vats, gloves and arms of the players included. I made them short print (and attractive) enough, now its on them.
BG

No, Brian, your products aren't for me. When I buy a Bowman Chrome box, and whether I pull a Brody Colvin Chrome autograph or a Orange Refractor Bryce Harper autograph, I know DAMN well that the ONLY Colvin/Harper autographs with that picture and that border are in BOWMAN CHROME packs. I know that there won't be Purple or Green Refractor Autos in Topps Heritage or Topps American Pie or Topps Tier One or Topps Marquee.

For you to stand there and say that the value of the already serialized /25 cards won't be affect by putting another /25 parallel out there is spitting in the face of every collector who has given you a dime.

I may still buy your single cards on the open market because I can make some money from them - to not do so is to cut off my nose to spite my face - but this is the last time I'm buying any Leaf unopened product. Period.

And if you just want to take my comment and blow me off, fine. I had already been talking with B/O about buying 3-4 cases of Leaf Metal. Not anymore. And judging from the fact that I've gotten 4 more "thanks" since I posted this... I don't think I'm alone.

No, but you are gonna see all kinds of colors of Chrome refractors in retail version and other funny topps packs at wally-world...
The fact is, not EVERYONE agrees with you. To claim you are the Almighty Spokesman for the hobbyist community as a whole is laughable...
To each their own, but with your crusades (pun intended) its overly dramatic.
I dont need the drama, Ive heard what you have to say and its been noted... Move on.
BG

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Bob Loblaw":1yirpv1o]

[quote="jcmint":1yirpv1o] Well then there you have it no surprises here although I kinda agree with Jeff here. 2008 is still fresh for alot of us. If he doesnt add products based on these two all should be ok.

Apologies to you, Jeff and anyone else who was expecting a thread in which he announced it in bold, 80-point font.

God knows he knows how to make an announcement. It's no surprise that this came as a surprise to almost all of us.

Have you bought any of his products ever?

Yes, Jeff has bought my products to be fair.
BG

p.s.- Now, on valiant... he did buy some and if I remember right he was complaining even before he opened it!!!!!

I bought a box of Leaf Metal Draft. I won a second box, Ironically, in AIC's draw. So I got 2 for $90. I didn't get $90 value out of both boxes. I've bought cards on the secondary market.

I bought a box of Valiant. Got it, opened it. Didn't like it. At all. That's when I started "complaining" about the 2nd box I had already purchased before the first box in AIC's live break. My complaints were a criticism of the product and the fact that I didn't like it. Now, AIC couldn't be more of a stand up guy, he offered me a refund without me even asking. But, because I knew if I did get a refund, I'd get the 1/1 Ichiro in my slot. So, I took the break, and from what I saw in the break, I like the stuff even less than I did on my own break. I won't buy any more Valiant boxes at $100 per.

HOwever, again, Ive bought cards on the secondary market.[/quote:1yirpv1o]

Pick one side of your mouth to talk out of!
You bought a box - 'didnt like it at all'. (ie You could not flip all your cards instantaneously for ROI)
Yet, you are buying still buying singles? Why, you hate the product![/quote:1yirpv1o]

Allow me to retort. I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth (although I am quite proficient at same), you simply are making assumptions and not quite understanding.

THe packaging of both sets is top notch. The writing and lack of information on the back of both cards is pathetic.

My take on Leaf Metal: A classy, straight forward, uncluttered looking product. Base cards are unnumbered, Refractors are /99, Blues at /25, Reds are /5, and 1/1 are superfractors. Every single card is easily identifiable. THe cards are nice. They've tanked on the market, but they're nice. I am buying one player from this set.

My take on Valiant: Hideous. That's really all I can say. I hoped they'd look classier in person, but they're just horrible looking... with lions and shields and fleur-de-lis... just something out of Signature Rookies. Garish. Horrible. Have I said that I don't like the base design?

Now, let's move to the parallels. One can barely tell the orange /25 from the red 1/1 and the blue /99 from the green base. Too difficult to determine, and not nearly enough dissimilarity to make the cards count for anything. A border changes everything. A moderate change to a portion of the card...not so much. I do not like this aspect either.

---

THere is one Phillie that I am interested in, in both sets. This is his only autograph card. Therefore, for my own collection as well as for investment purposes, I am buying. This new /25 hurts the ROI on the /25s I already have, in my opinion.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Jeff-
If you think that /25 purple is going to "kill" these sets, I think you should star collecting "Precious Moments", "Hummels" or "Hallmark Ornaments"...
This hobby just isnt for you...

The future of these sets squarely rests on the vats, gloves and arms of the players included. I made them short print (and attractive) enough, now its on them.
BG

No, Brian, your products aren't for me. When I buy a Bowman Chrome box, and whether I pull a Brody Colvin Chrome autograph or a Orange Refractor Bryce Harper autograph, I know DAMN well that the ONLY Colvin/Harper autographs with that picture and that border are in BOWMAN CHROME packs. I know that there won't be Purple or Green Refractor Autos in Topps Heritage or Topps American Pie or Topps Tier One or Topps Marquee.

For you to stand there and say that the value of the already serialized /25 cards won't be affect by putting another /25 parallel out there is spitting in the face of every collector who has given you a dime.

I may still buy your single cards on the open market because I can make some money from them - to not do so is to cut off my nose to spite my face - but this is the last time I'm buying any Leaf unopened product. Period.

And if you just want to take my comment and blow me off, fine. I had already been talking with B/O about buying 3-4 cases of Leaf Metal. Not anymore. And judging from the fact that I've gotten 4 more "thanks" since I posted this... I don't think I'm alone.

No, but you are gonna see all kinds of colors of Chrome refractors in retail version and other funny topps packs at wally-world...
The fact is, not EVERYONE agrees with you. To claim you are the Almighty Spokesman for the hobbyist community as a whole is laughable...
To each their own, but with your crusades (pun intended) its overly dramatic.
I dont need the drama, Ive heard what you have to say and its been noted... Move on.
BG

1) Just Because Topps Does It Doesn't Mean It's Right

2) You're right. I'm gonna see Green and/or Purple refractors in retail... but I'm gonna see them in retail BOWMAN CHROME packs. I'm NOT gonna see Green or BRown or Purple or Polkadot BOWMAN CHROME refractors in TOPPS UPDATE packs. You don't see my point - or are refusing to admit I'm correct. Either way, I'm not gonna bang my head against your wall.

3) Of COURSE not everyone agrees with me. IF everyone agreed with me... well, the world would be a much better place, but much more boring too. Not everyone agrees with me, not everyone agrees with you. But I think a fair number of people agree with me. It's funny... about a year ago, I was one of the few defenders you had on this board.

 

[Leaf]

[quote="Bob Loblaw":37ivqqoa]

Jeff-
If you think that /25 purple is going to "kill" these sets, I think you should star collecting "Precious Moments", "Hummels" or "Hallmark Ornaments"...
This hobby just isnt for you...

The future of these sets squarely rests on the vats, gloves and arms of the players included. I made them short print (and attractive) enough, now its on them.
BG

No, Brian, your products aren't for me. When I buy a Bowman Chrome box, and whether I pull a Brody Colvin Chrome autograph or a Orange Refractor Bryce Harper autograph, I know DAMN well that the ONLY Colvin/Harper autographs with that picture and that border are in BOWMAN CHROME packs. I know that there won't be Purple or Green Refractor Autos in Topps Heritage or Topps American Pie or Topps Tier One or Topps Marquee.

For you to stand there and say that the value of the already serialized /25 cards won't be affect by putting another /25 parallel out there is spitting in the face of every collector who has given you a dime.

I may still buy your single cards on the open market because I can make some money from them - to not do so is to cut off my nose to spite my face - but this is the last time I'm buying any Leaf unopened product. Period.

And if you just want to take my comment and blow me off, fine. I had already been talking with B/O about buying 3-4 cases of Leaf Metal. Not anymore. And judging from the fact that I've gotten 4 more "thanks" since I posted this... I don't think I'm alone.

No, but you are gonna see all kinds of colors of Chrome refractors in retail version and other funny topps packs at wally-world...
The fact is, not EVERYONE agrees with you. To claim you are the Almighty Spokesman for the hobbyist community as a whole is laughable...
To each their own, but with your crusades (pun intended) its overly dramatic.
I dont need the drama, Ive heard what you have to say and its been noted... Move on.
BG

1) Just Because Topps Does It Doesn't Mean It's Right

2) You're right. I'm gonna see Green and/or Purple refractors in retail... but I'm gonna see them in retail BOWMAN CHROME packs. I'm NOT gonna see Green or BRown or Purple or Polkadot BOWMAN CHROME refractors in TOPPS UPDATE packs. You don't see my point - or are refusing to admit I'm correct. Either way, I'm not gonna bang my head against your wall.

3) Of COURSE not everyone agrees with me. IF everyone agreed with me... well, the world would be a much better place, but much more boring too. Not everyone agrees with me, not everyone agrees with you. But I think a fair number of people agree with me. It's funny... about a year ago, I was one of the few defenders you had on this board. [/quote:37ivqqoa]

1> I agree, but why dont you start threads bashing them,... because your a LEAF troll?... At least I can appreciate your monogamy to my brand when it comes to bashing....

2> No, but you had refractor parallels exclusively on the pit when they owned it.... but I guess memories in this business are short..
BG

 

[masonphillip]

To me the retail only parallels that Bowman Chrome has added over the past few years with immense print runs are far worse. They have killed the lower end parallel market which used to have lots of value. It is 25 freaking cards and that is all.

 

[Leaf]

Jeff----

First, I appreciate the balanced thoughts.

Second, could you not see Valiant design before you bought? We pictured everything including parallels....
I think on your claim Valiant is HIDEOUS, you are in a very very very very very minute minority...

I think I have got the jist of this thread,... Time to move on for me..

Anyone with thoughts/opinions/feedback besdies those Jeff has clearly articulated are welcome to email me at [email protected].... BG

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Bob Loblaw":239mni22]

Jeff-
If you think that /25 purple is going to "kill" these sets, I think you should star collecting "Precious Moments", "Hummels" or "Hallmark Ornaments"...
This hobby just isnt for you...

The future of these sets squarely rests on the vats, gloves and arms of the players included. I made them short print (and attractive) enough, now its on them.
BG

No, Brian, your products aren't for me. When I buy a Bowman Chrome box, and whether I pull a Brody Colvin Chrome autograph or a Orange Refractor Bryce Harper autograph, I know DAMN well that the ONLY Colvin/Harper autographs with that picture and that border are in BOWMAN CHROME packs. I know that there won't be Purple or Green Refractor Autos in Topps Heritage or Topps American Pie or Topps Tier One or Topps Marquee.

For you to stand there and say that the value of the already serialized /25 cards won't be affect by putting another /25 parallel out there is spitting in the face of every collector who has given you a dime.

I may still buy your single cards on the open market because I can make some money from them - to not do so is to cut off my nose to spite my face - but this is the last time I'm buying any Leaf unopened product. Period.

And if you just want to take my comment and blow me off, fine. I had already been talking with B/O about buying 3-4 cases of Leaf Metal. Not anymore. And judging from the fact that I've gotten 4 more "thanks" since I posted this... I don't think I'm alone.

No, but you are gonna see all kinds of colors of Chrome refractors in retail version and other funny topps packs at wally-world...
The fact is, not EVERYONE agrees with you. To claim you are the Almighty Spokesman for the hobbyist community as a whole is laughable...
To each their own, but with your crusades (pun intended) its overly dramatic.
I dont need the drama, Ive heard what you have to say and its been noted... Move on.
BG

1) Just Because Topps Does It Doesn't Mean It's Right

2) You're right. I'm gonna see Green and/or Purple refractors in retail... but I'm gonna see them in retail BOWMAN CHROME packs. I'm NOT gonna see Green or BRown or Purple or Polkadot BOWMAN CHROME refractors in TOPPS UPDATE packs. You don't see my point - or are refusing to admit I'm correct. Either way, I'm not gonna bang my head against your wall.

3) Of COURSE not everyone agrees with me. IF everyone agreed with me... well, the world would be a much better place, but much more boring too. Not everyone agrees with me, not everyone agrees with you. But I think a fair number of people agree with me. It's funny... about a year ago, I was one of the few defenders you had on this board.

No, but you had refractor parallels excluively on the pit when they owned it.... but I guess memories in this business are short..
BG[/quote:239mni22]

Just Because Topps Does It Doesn't Mean It's Right

THat being said (and I suspected someone would bring that up), I believe the green refs were /225, and that was more than the blues at that time, but less than the refractors. They allowed another purchase level between the xfractors and refractors. They didn't take the place of a much more limited refractor.

But again, if you had invested heavily in xfractors, the 2005 green refractors probably cut some of that profit out.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Bob Loblaw":2rcpuwhd]....thanks for including those extra Purple ones in Rookie Retro, Leaf.

Makes me wish I hadn't ever told ya'll about the lottery laws that would have doomed your initial Rookie Retro...

Can you please let us know in advance when the Metal Pete Rose, the Metal Leaf Valiant, and the Valiant Leaf Metal Draft will be coming out, and what product they'll be released in, or on their own?

THanks!

There is no need to be a jerk. We stated DAY ONE that purple parallels would be in Rookie Retro.

(1) THERE IS NO METAL PETE ROSE. I KNOW YOU WERE BEING A JERK IN ASKING THIS QUESTION, BUT THERE ARE NO ADDITIONAL ROSE PRODUCTS. He may appear on a Legends checklist at some point though.
(2) After purple parallels, there are no 2011 baseball parallels left and there are no additional plans for 2011 Baseball products. Our next sets will be 2012 SPRING.

BG

p.s.- on your grab bag argument, my counsel does NOT agree with you. However, (1) we believe it adds a LEAF identity to the product, so we will continue the tradition and (2) we honestly dont want to open the door for small time lawyers attempting to create a nuisance should they agree with your position (no major firm would ever take an unlikely to prevail contingency case like this anyways)....

1) You said it in a message thread, unclearly, about Rookie Retro, on this message board only, that the majority of the people who are buying Metal and Valiant never read. You said it ONE time.

2) Funny, in that "conversation we never had" about your lawsuit with Topps, you flat out admitted that your counsel agreed with me on the ROokie Retro grab bag issue... and I believe you've admitted here that you inserted those signatures based on my argument and the advice of counsel... but whatever.

1> we also emailed out to all our direct accounts the initial information which indicated the same.

2> No, they never "agreed".... They thought it would be wise as we could very well have a greed driven party attempt to sue which clearly doesnt come free (even if/when we are proven right)..

Jeff...
At the end of the day, you dont have to like our products (or me for that matter). However, I am still looking for posts where you state the positives you see in our products...
Until then, its hard to consider it a balanced evaulation of our products...BG[/quote:2rcpuwhd]

And how many "direct accounts" forwarded that information to the hobby? I'm gonna guess...0.

FWIW, I do like you. I understand how much you care and love this hobby, and you and I have had a number of phone conversations. I have no dislike or disrespect for you. That being said, if someone I like or respect makes what i feel is a stupid decision (especially one that can hurt me financially), I'm gonna say something.

 

[Jaypers]

Now I get it. All this time, Jeff has been pitching for a job with Leaf.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I don't see this hurting Leaf or the previous products at all. If pink variations come out on ebay then its a different story.

No, just these purple which were previously announced.
BG

One time.

On a thread not remotely about Valiant.

In an unclear manner.

On a message board.

Honestly, it doesnt matter whether I told YOU or not.
The fact is, the cards are made. If you dont like it, dont buy the product. Its so easy, vote with your wallet.
BG

p.s.- how ya like the retail parallels of chrome refractors... They never tell you about that on the sell sheet for hobby,...
But again, your a LEAF troll... no one expects you to start a thread, "BECAUSE TOPPS ISNT DONE KILLING REFRACTORS IN 2011 BOWMAN CHROME"...

Oh yes, I'm a LEAF Troll.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/base ... stuff.html

Really Brian... Really?

Really?

Really?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Now I get it. All this time, Jeff has been pitching for a job with Leaf.

I'm pretty sure Brian wouldn't pay me what I'm making now. And I'm pretty sure Brian is making 3 to 5 times, at least, what I'm making.

 

[deceptikon1978]

Now I get it. All this time, Jeff has been pitching for a job with Leaf.

I'm pretty sure Brian wouldn't pay me what I'm making now. And I'm pretty sure Brian is making 3 to 5 times, at least, what I'm making.

Yet these 25 extra purples are going to financially cripple your prosecting empire.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Now I get it. All this time, Jeff has been pitching for a job with Leaf.

I'm pretty sure Brian wouldn't pay me what I'm making now. And I'm pretty sure Brian is making 3 to 5 times, at least, what I'm making.

Yet these 25 extra purples are going to financially cripple your prosecting empire.

Ummm...yeah. I make 5 times LESS than Brian... at least.

 

[Wes]

I don't see this hurting Leaf or the previous products at all. If pink variations come out on ebay then its a different story.

No, just these purple which were previously announced.
BG

Tongue was planted firmly in cheek on this one.

 

[schmidtfan20]

Did I miss the "sorry that happened to you how about a give away to smooth things out" yet?

Kevin

 

[hive17]

It's not like Topps doesn't do the same stuff. Just when you think you've got THE card of a guy, BOOM, here's a variation that kills the old one.

Topps always inserts parallels of their Bowman Chrome cards in different variants in different sets.

Just the other day I pulled a Purple Bowman CHrome Harper auto out of Topps Tier One.

::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

I was just addressing the fact that Topps has a tendancy to kill the value of earlier releases with subsequent releases, thus muddying the waters. I was addressing the title of your thread.

 

[Leaf]

Did I miss the "sorry that happened to you how about a give away to smooth things out" yet?

Kevin

Nope... nothing to smooth out... sorry...
BG

 

[ljw29]

Jeff-
If you think that /25 purple is going to "kill" these sets, I think you should star collecting "Precious Moments", "Hummels" or "Hallmark Ornaments"...
This hobby just isnt for you...

The future of these sets squarely rests on the vats, gloves and arms of the players included. I made them short print (and attractive) enough, now its on them.
BG

I think its a poor move seems like more interested in being able to say ooooh look shiny in the new product instead of delivering something new and different.

Whats the point of opening up the next product for more $0.99 autographs. The claim is its done to deliver value, but I guess the value is in how much more money BG gets. At least with Topps you know you are going to get that and they dont act like their product is the next big thing since Krispy Kreme and then drop more of that Topps product into another one.

 

[ChasHawk]

No, but you are gonna see all kinds of colors of Chrome refractors in retail version and other funny topps packs at wally-world...
The fact is, not EVERYONE agrees with you. To claim you are the Almighty Spokesman for the hobbyist community as a whole is laughable...
To each their own, but with your crusades (pun intended) its overly dramatic.
I dont need the drama, Ive heard what you have to say and its been noted... Move on.
BG

this may be the most ironic statement ever posted on this board