Buyer leaves positive, demands feedback, files claim...wins

[asmth312]

Just need some input on this PayPal incident:

Sold a card for $95 BIN, listed in NM/MT condition

Shipped with insurance and DC, buyer receives

Leaves positive feedback

Sends message asking me to leave feedback for him
Sends second message 7 hours later demanding feedback
Files PayPal dispute

I respond telling him I'll leave him feedback after he closes the dispute, and that I don't think much of his tactics

He escalates to a claim and writes to PayPal:
"I know I left feedback already, but I was examining the card and there is an imperfection on the corner. Card would grade out a full point below the condition listed. Normally I would not say anything but I am OCD about my cards and this is my favorite player."

My contention was that even if he now legitimately believes the card is not in acceptable condition, if whatever flaw he now sees was so insignificant that he didn't notice it for two days, then certainly such a flaw falls well within the given description

Today the buyer won the claim

I have no reason to believe that PayPal even looked at the auction to see the condition that the card was listed in, and they certainly didn't look at a picture of the alleged defect, because he didn't provide one
Maybe they didn't even look at the fact that he left positive feedback

Any thoughts?

 

[moxacaine]

I have no advice to offer but i would love this buyers Ebay ID so i can block him.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Next time, dont list a condition unless you're willing to stand behind it.



lesson learned.

 

[Johan Santana 57]

Ok you should have won.

But for the future, just know that feedback left on the transaction has no bearing on the case.

He could write: RECEIVED CARD SUPER FAST IN A DAY

Then file a claim saying he never received it, you have no DC, you lose. That's how stupid paypal works.

I know your situation is different here, but its kind of a spin off. I would call paypal and try to talk to someone. Surprisingly paypal just called me about an issue on an account of mine and they were very nice and accommodating, so maybe that could help.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

Next time, dont list a condition unless you're willing to stand behind it.



lesson learned.

Shouldn't they have made him send the card back?

 

[phillyfan0417]

Next time, dont list a condition unless you're willing to stand behind it.



lesson learned.

Shouldn't they have made him send the card back?

I hope so, it would be weird if they didnt. I would defitiely call someone if thats not the case...

 

[bigpops65]

Did you provide the DC number to Paypal?

 

[Kutzy]

Next time, dont list a condition unless you're willing to stand behind it.



lesson learned.

Shouldn't they have made him send the card back?

I hope so, it would be weird if they didnt. I would defitiely call someone if thats not the case...

Would it not be theft at that point?

 

[i43770]

That sucks. I'm just curious why you didn't leave feedback after he paid for the auction?

 

[asmth312]

I was willing to stand behind it. It was in the condition that was listed. Obviously I wouldn't list a card in gem mint or even mint condition because of the level of perfection it implies. But like I said, the guy's complaint was provoked by the fact that I didn't leave him positive feedback.

Certainly I could have protected myself with a large disclaimer to the effect of: "I MAKE NO WARRANTY AS TO THE CONDITION OF THE CARDS I SELL. LEAVE ME ALONE AND BUY PROFESSIONALLY GRADED CARDS IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT"

Maybe I'll put that in my auctions now, though it couldn't be good for business.

It'd be nice to just count on the reason and decency of others, but there's never enough of that to go around.

 

[Kutzy]

I have no advice to offer but i would love this buyers Ebay ID so i can block him.

Any chance we can get a ebay name?

 

[markakis8]

What...the...frick...is your avatar...

That sucks. I'm just curious why you didn't leave feedback after he paid for the auction?

 

[i43770]

I was on another message board today, saw it and thought it was funny, so I liberated it.

What...the...frick...is your avatar...

That sucks. I'm just curious why you didn't leave feedback after he paid for the auction?

 

[asmth312]

The problem is, he can now send the card back to me in whatever condition he wants, having inflicted whatever damage he wants and I will be forced to eat it.

I didn't leave feedback for him initially because of situations exactly like this. I always wait until the card has been received. There's more to being a good buyer than making timely payment, and that certainly includes not opening PayPal claims attempting to extort feedback.

 

[moxacaine]

Ebay ID?

 

[RL24]

Ebay ID?

And who he collects... :twisted:

 

[i43770]

The problem is, he can now send the card back to me in whatever condition he wants, having inflicted whatever damage he wants and I will be forced to eat it.

I didn't leave feedback for him initially because of situations exactly like this. I always wait until the card has been received. There's more to being a good buyer than making timely payment, and that certainly includes not opening PayPal claims attempting to extort feedback.

I guess I have never understood why sellers are so intent on withholding feedback from buyers. If you are so scared of charge backs and situations like this, don't sell on eBay.

 

[asmth312]

cardboard_fan is the Ebay ID

Like I said, I can't say with 100% certainty that his claim was made to extort feedback, because he refused to communicate with me directly. But given his messages prior to the claim that's the way it looks. Certainly not someone you'd want to deal with either way.

 

[asmth312]

The problem is, he can now send the card back to me in whatever condition he wants, having inflicted whatever damage he wants and I will be forced to eat it.

I didn't leave feedback for him initially because of situations exactly like this. I always wait until the card has been received. There's more to being a good buyer than making timely payment, and that certainly includes not opening PayPal claims attempting to extort feedback.

I guess I have never understood why sellers are so intent on withholding feedback from buyers. If you are so scared of charge backs and situations like this, don't sell on eBay.

You don't see why I would not rate this transaction/buyer as a positive on the whole? The one recourse I have at this point is to leave him negative feedback.

It wasn't withheld to try to prevent a charge back, it was withheld so that when it was left it would accurately reflect the entire transaction.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

The problem is, he can now send the card back to me in whatever condition he wants, having inflicted whatever damage he wants and I will be forced to eat it.

I didn't leave feedback for him initially because of situations exactly like this. I always wait until the card has been received. There's more to being a good buyer than making timely payment, and that certainly includes not opening PayPal claims attempting to extort feedback.

I guess I have never understood why sellers are so intent on withholding feedback from buyers. If you are so scared of charge backs and situations like this, don't sell on eBay.

You don't see why I would not rate this transaction/buyer as a positive on the whole? The one recourse I have at this point is to leave him negative feedback.

It wasn't withheld to try to prevent a charge back, it was withheld so that when it was left it would accurately reflect the entire transaction.

Wrong, you can't leave negative feedback.