Buyer leaves positive, demands feedback, files claim...wins

[mredsox89]

[quote="Jays_Cards":1fre8yoj]Paypal has been dicking everyone lately. I filed a non-receipt claim because the ******** on here decided not to send $361 worth of cards. He chose not to even respond to the dispute, so obviously paypal sided in my favor. Unfortunately, I got an email from paypal 2 days after the dispute was supposed to close saying that they could not reimburse me for the funds since they were not available in the seller's account. What the hell is the point of buyer protection, then?

Did you pay with a CC through paypal? I only do this now because even if the seller doesn't have the $ in paypal, the CC will cover you

Of course. I filed a charge back through my CC, but that can take up to 45 days. Im not in dire need of $$, but that is absolutely ridiculous..[/quote:1fre8yoj]

yea, it does suck but unfortunately it is what it is. I've given up complaining because it doesn't appear anything is going to change.

 

[predatorkj]

[quote="Jays_Cards":2ejcnn0b]Paypal has been dicking everyone lately. I filed a non-receipt claim because the ******** on here decided not to send $361 worth of cards. He chose not to even respond to the dispute, so obviously paypal sided in my favor. Unfortunately, I got an email from paypal 2 days after the dispute was supposed to close saying that they could not reimburse me for the funds since they were not available in the seller's account. What the hell is the point of buyer protection, then?

Did you pay with a CC through paypal? I only do this now because even if the seller doesn't have the $ in paypal, the CC will cover you

Of course. I filed a charge back through my CC, but that can take up to 45 days. Im not in dire need of $$, but that is absolutely ridiculous..[/quote:2ejcnn0b]


If you gripe enough...they'll get it to you faster.Trust me!

 

[RandomH]

Isn't this the same guy from beckett? Same ID and avatar on both beckett and ebay.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Unsure if same person, but same avatar and name.

Yup, I'm almost positive.He's the guy there with like 5000 posts. He and his 33.12 posts a day are the only thing keeping that dump a float. I love it how Chris whatever his name is, has to make threads there to get the place going.

 

[Therion]

This smells like BS to me.

When PayPal gives a refund due to condition issues, the buyer must return the card and have it confirmed by the seller that they received the card back. There was a huge thread involving this very issue with a seller putting "AUTO" in his descriptions for cards that were not autographed.

 

[KandKCards]

Was the ruling that the buyer had to return it, and once it is confirmed returned, paypal automatically issues a refund?
I sold a 1986 Topps Traded Tiffany set a few years ago (when they were worth something!) and the guy opened a paypal dispute saying it was damaged. I said send me a photo of the damage and I'll give you a refund. He refused to do it, paypal ruled in his favor and when I got the stuff back, it was exactly in the perfect condition I sent it in. Paypal never requested a photo or any proof, they just gave him the shot at a refund. When a buyer complains now, I just tell them to send it back and I'll give them a refund, because I know I have no way in hell of winning the claim if they were to open one.

 

[The Cardboard Fan]

Hello all, I am not an active user of this site but thought it important to note some key points regarding this issue that were posted over on Beckett a couple days ago:

I purchased a 2003 X-Fractor Brian Mccann AU RC as he is one of my favorite players and IS Jessica's favorite... it was listed in Nearmint/Mint... I received his package very timely... but received it when I was having to rush out of the house back to the office from my lunch break... but before I left I gave the card a quick look over through the taped up one touch it was in... so I left him positive feedback based on his quick shipping and the fact that the card appeared to be ok and sent a message stating I had left feedback and asked for him to please do the same... later when I had time to examine the card thoroughly though I noticed the top edge of the back had a chip/edge issue that almost looks like someone stuck their fingernail to it... from this issue it was easy to determine that the card would in all likeliness not grade higher than maybe a 7 so was in Nearmint raw condition and the seller was not quite as condition sensitive in reviewing cards as I am... I started a PayPal claim for a refund to return the card... but had not escalated it yet as I figured he more than likely would work something out with me on his own accord... instead I received a very derogative message back stating I MUST be a scam artist and do this all the time to con postive feedback out of sellers... (That made no sense to me) and I could tell he would be nothing but a headache as how he responded to me from the get go so I informed him through PayPal that I was escalating the claim so that I can retrieve my funds once his card is returned and continue my search for a Nearmint/Mint copy of the mentioned card... I then packaged his card in a brand new Ultra-Pro magnetic One-Touch, then into a team bag, then enclosed it in two pieces of cardboard to further protect it and sent it back to him via USPS 1st class with Delivery Confirmation back I believe on Friday with a post it note stating I was sorry I had to return the card but it wasn't in the condition that was listed and I was looking for. Anyone can read my buy/sell history on eBay and my trade history on the different sites I trade on since I have gotten back into the hobby and see I am completely honest and fair in my dealings and expect the same treatment...



Does anyone see anything wrong with retrieving funds and returning a purchased item when it was not in the listed condition?

ALSO, I SHOULD NOTE THAT SINCE THIS THREAD WAS STARTED THE OP HAS ALREADY RECEIVED HIS CARD BACK IN THE CONDITION IT WAS SENT TO ME IN, HE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS AND OUR ONLY ISSUE WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION AND HE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED TO ME THAT WE ARE ALL GOOD.

 

[bballcardkid]

Paypal has been dicking everyone lately. I filed a non-receipt claim because the ******** on here decided not to send $361 worth of cards. He chose not to even respond to the dispute, so obviously paypal sided in my favor. Unfortunately, I got an email from paypal 2 days after the dispute was supposed to close saying that they could not reimburse me for the funds since they were not available in the seller's account. What the hell is the point of buyer protection, then?

That pisses me off beyond believe. They can award you the victor but recover no funds. But they can take $400 out of your account when it is in the red to pay for something that you filed a stop payment on from your bank by combining the $400 amount with your ebay fees. Payfoe blows donkey balls.

 

[bballcardkid]

Hello all, I am not an active user of this site but thought it important to note some key points regarding this issue that were posted over on Beckett a couple days ago:

I purchased a 2003 X-Fractor Brian Mccann AU RC as he is one of my favorite players and IS Jessica's favorite... it was listed in Nearmint/Mint... I received his package very timely... but received it when I was having to rush out of the house back to the office from my lunch break... but before I left I gave the card a quick look over through the taped up one touch it was in... so I left him positive feedback based on his quick shipping and the fact that the card appeared to be ok and sent a message stating I had left feedback and asked for him to please do the same... later when I had time to examine the card thoroughly though I noticed the top edge of the back had a chip/edge issue that almost looks like someone stuck their fingernail to it... from this issue it was easy to determine that the card would in all likeliness not grade higher than maybe a 7 so was in Nearmint raw condition and the seller was not quite as condition sensitive in reviewing cards as I am... I started a PayPal claim for a refund to return the card... but had not escalated it yet as I figured he more than likely would work something out with me on his own accord... instead I received a very derogative message back stating I MUST be a scam artist and do this all the time to con postive feedback out of sellers... (That made no sense to me) and I could tell he would be nothing but a headache as how he responded to me from the get go so I informed him through PayPal that I was escalating the claim so that I can retrieve my funds once his card is returned and continue my search for a Nearmint/Mint copy of the mentioned card... I then packaged his card in a brand new Ultra-Pro magnetic One-Touch, then into a team bag, then enclosed it in two pieces of cardboard to further protect it and sent it back to him via USPS 1st class with Delivery Confirmation back I believe on Friday with a post it note stating I was sorry I had to return the card but it wasn't in the condition that was listed and I was looking for. Anyone can read my buy/sell history on eBay and my trade history on the different sites I trade on since I have gotten back into the hobby and see I am completely honest and fair in my dealings and expect the same treatment...



Does anyone see anything wrong with retrieving funds and returning a purchased item when it was not in the listed condition?

ALSO, I SHOULD NOTE THAT SINCE THIS THREAD WAS STARTED THE OP HAS ALREADY RECEIVED HIS CARD BACK IN THE CONDITION IT WAS SENT TO ME IN, HE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS AND OUR ONLY ISSUE WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION AND HE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED TO ME THAT WE ARE ALL GOOD.

Seems all good. OP made it out to be a scam.

 

[asmth312]

I can verify that the card was returned in the condition that it was sent, and for that I was appreciative.

After speaking to the buyer I was convinced that his objection actually was motivated by the condition of the card.

I was also convinced that he went about it completely the wrong way (i.e. not communicating with me directly, leaving feedback before 'examining' the card, and making two requests for feedback before opening the claim). I think anyone can see why I would have believed he was motivated by feedback.

As for the condition of the card, I think I'll just have it graded. Just for my own personal satisfaction. Certainly I can appreciate that everyone wants a gem mint card, but I expect buyers who demand gem mint cards to buy gem mint cards- and accept cards that are delivered in the condition that they are listed.

Unfortunately, as everyone pointed out here last week, PayPal offers no-penalty returns to buyers of cards that are not in the condition they desire, regardless of the condition listed.

 

[predatorkj]

Hello all, I am not an active user of this site but thought it important to note some key points regarding this issue that were posted over on Beckett a couple days ago:

I purchased a 2003 X-Fractor Brian Mccann AU RC as he is one of my favorite players and IS Jessica's favorite... it was listed in Nearmint/Mint... I received his package very timely... but received it when I was having to rush out of the house back to the office from my lunch break... but before I left I gave the card a quick look over through the taped up one touch it was in... so I left him positive feedback based on his quick shipping and the fact that the card appeared to be ok and sent a message stating I had left feedback and asked for him to please do the same... later when I had time to examine the card thoroughly though I noticed the top edge of the back had a chip/edge issue that almost looks like someone stuck their fingernail to it... from this issue it was easy to determine that the card would in all likeliness not grade higher than maybe a 7 so was in Nearmint raw condition and the seller was not quite as condition sensitive in reviewing cards as I am... I started a PayPal claim for a refund to return the card... but had not escalated it yet as I figured he more than likely would work something out with me on his own accord... instead I received a very derogative message back stating I MUST be a scam artist and do this all the time to con postive feedback out of sellers... (That made no sense to me) and I could tell he would be nothing but a headache as how he responded to me from the get go so I informed him through PayPal that I was escalating the claim so that I can retrieve my funds once his card is returned and continue my search for a Nearmint/Mint copy of the mentioned card... I then packaged his card in a brand new Ultra-Pro magnetic One-Touch, then into a team bag, then enclosed it in two pieces of cardboard to further protect it and sent it back to him via USPS 1st class with Delivery Confirmation back I believe on Friday with a post it note stating I was sorry I had to return the card but it wasn't in the condition that was listed and I was looking for. Anyone can read my buy/sell history on eBay and my trade history on the different sites I trade on since I have gotten back into the hobby and see I am completely honest and fair in my dealings and expect the same treatment...



Does anyone see anything wrong with retrieving funds and returning a purchased item when it was not in the listed condition?

ALSO, I SHOULD NOTE THAT SINCE THIS THREAD WAS STARTED THE OP HAS ALREADY RECEIVED HIS CARD BACK IN THE CONDITION IT WAS SENT TO ME IN, HE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS AND OUR ONLY ISSUE WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION AND HE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED TO ME THAT WE ARE ALL GOOD.

Not to sound rude but if you want a card that's capable of grading a certain way then buy it graded.Otherwise you will sit here until the end of time being able to nitpick.It would have saved all of this trouble too.

 

[The Cardboard Fan]

I didn't buy it to grade it specifically... I bought a card that was listed as Nearmint/Mint and the OP honestly feels it is in that condition... I honestly felt it was in Nearmint condition... no scam, or anything just a difference of opinion... He mentioned he might grade it and hell it might grade a 8 or so with PSA or someone... I personally am a BGS/BVG slab fan and Beckett is a little harsher on grading...

Thanks to those that are understanding of the situation on both ends and once again to the OP I am sorry for our miscommunication and am glad we worked it out.

 

[predatorkj]

I didn't buy it to grade it specifically... I bought a card that was listed as Nearmint/Mint and the OP honestly feels it is in that condition... I honestly felt it was in Nearmint condition... no scam, or anything just a difference of opinion... He mentioned he might grade it and hell it might grade a 8 or so with PSA or someone... I personally am a BGS/BVG slab fan and Beckett is a little harsher on grading...

I get you.I just think that nm means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and if your particularly picky about condition...you may want to go graded.I know that if I was listing a bunch of stuff for sale there is no way I am going over everything with a fine tooth comb and a lot of stuff can go unnoticed in a penny sleeve and top loader.Its easy to miss things.

 

[The Cardboard Fan]

I get you.I just think that nm means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and if your particularly picky about condition...you may want to go graded.I know that if I was listing a bunch of stuff for sale there is no way I am going over everything with a fine tooth comb and a lot of stuff can go unnoticed in a penny sleeve and top loader.Its easy to miss things.

I totally agree and that is why it wasn't a big deal I just requested a refund via PayPal (at that point in the system the messages go to the seller only until you escalate) but when I was being called a liar, con, and so on (Due to the misunderstading) I stopped communication with the seller and just went about the process protocal of the site.

 

[Kutzy]

This smells like BS to me.

When PayPal gives a refund due to condition issues, the buyer must return the card and have it confirmed by the seller that they received the card back. There was a huge thread involving this very issue with a seller putting "AUTO" in his descriptions for cards that were not autographed.

I can tell you from personal experience, they do not have to return the card to get their money back.

 

[The Cardboard Fan]

I can tell you from personal experience, they do not have to return the card to get their money back.

It is sad there are those in our hobby that would be that dishonest but I can promise you I am not one of them.

 

[bear0555]

I get you.I just think that nm means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and if your particularly picky about condition...you may want to go graded.I know that if I was listing a bunch of stuff for sale there is no way I am going over everything with a fine tooth comb and a lot of stuff can go unnoticed in a penny sleeve and top loader.Its easy to miss things.

I totally agree and that is why it wasn't a big deal I just requested a refund via PayPal (at that point in the system the messages go to the seller only until you escalate) but when I was being called a liar, con, and so on (Due to the misunderstading) I stopped communication with the seller and just went about the process protocal of the site.

While I understand your point of view, I cannot say I would be on your side. Believe me, I hate receiving a card with such a flaw on it more than anything. But after dealing online for long enough, a fingernail mark isn't even that big of a deal anymore. I most likely would have just sucked it up and look for another one. I have received a card that looked like someone sat on it, creased and bent in a couple places. That I felt was worthy of filing a dispute and the seller ended up blaming me for damaging it, which was not true. Also, if that mccann was graded by bgs, it may receive a "7" subgrade for the surface. If the other subgrades are strong enough, the card could still receive an overall grade of an "8" which was the condition described. I think you should have just asked for a refund first instead of going to paypal. Btw, I have pulled a chrome auto from 2003 that had about 5-6 fingernail marks on it.

 

[The Cardboard Fan]

While I understand your point of view, I cannot say I would be on your side. Believe me, I hate receiving a card with such a flaw on it more than anything. But after dealing online for long enough, a fingernail mark isn't even that big of a deal anymore. I most likely would have just sucked it up and look for another one. I have received a card that looked like someone sat on it, creased and bent in a couple places. That I felt was worthy of filing a dispute and the seller ended up blaming me for damaging it, which was not true. Also, if that mccann was graded by bgs, it may receive a "7" subgrade for the surface. If the other subgrades are strong enough, the card could still receive an overall grade of an "8" which was the condition described. I think you should have just asked for a refund first instead of going to paypal. Btw, I have pulled a chrome auto from 2003 that had about 5-6 fingernail marks on it.

Beckett's grading formula will only allow a total grade that is half a point over the lowest subgrade in most instances and normally I would have sucked it up as mentioned when I saw the chip/edge issue where it appeared to be dug into by a fingernail but I had already overlooked the soft back corners so I just couldn't settle with the card. Also, people are getting hung up on the PayPal thing... until a claim is escalated it is simply a message back and forth between the seller and buyer (no different if it was sent via eBay)... it states that clearly in the site so I didn't assume it was a big deal and wasn't aware it would be taken as such... I have done 270+ transactions on eBay and this is the only one where I needed a refund or had to refund something so I am sorry but I thought the protocal was to go through PayPal as that is what they instruct you to do whether the claim is escalated or not so they have all records and pertinent info if it comes to a point where it is needed.